Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Espeonage]

it would be dumb for me to not go fir this.

Unvote, Vote: AD

[hitogoroshi]

VC 65 (Major Day 1, VC 27)

(7)

Espeonage:

ChannelDelibird, vezorpiraka, Untrod Tripod, ActionDan, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, Shadoweh [L-3]
(6)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, singersigner, Cheetory6, Marquis, T S O, Espeonage
(3)

singersigner:

Gammagooey, Bulbazak, Titus
(2)

Marquis:

TellTaleHeart, mastin2
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul
(0)

Titus:

(Espeonage)

(0)

Not Voting:

(mastin2)

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[T S O]

I know I'm popular, everyone, so you don't immediately have to scurry to the ActionDan wagon. I won't ridicule you in public for walking in an orderly fashion, I'll simply berate you heavily in private.

[ActionDan]

This looked like a huge effortful post, but there's actually very little meat to it.

I'm going to ask the folks who have pledged their swords, bows, axes, etc to me for the day to move their votes to Action Dan. please and thank you.

Also, Cheetory - you're invited too!

It took 5 hours you know

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote, vote ActionDan

I don't even care

this 112 page 1st day is sucking my will to live

[Cheetory6]

Titus/Espeonage Interactions That Look Bad:

i)

Given how townsided most of the open setups can be, I bet practically no one preferred scum.

So, you don't know if this set-up is townsided yet, but you don't think people would have picked scum in fear of it being townsided?

@TSO, Use context please. The opens are townsided so I would be surprised if anyone picked scum in those games. It is too early to tell if this setup is townsided.

But how is this fully open? It's semi-open at best.

Read my posts in their entirety again.

So this conversation is important for setup for a discussion later so I want to talk about it so what I'm saying is clear. Titus is saying that people probably didn't put in scum tokens into the open setups. TSO gets on her case, possibly on incorrect reasoning but that's not particularly important. What is important is that TSO thinks that Titus is being misleading with how she's talking here.
Titus follows up with TSO here, basically saying that she doesn't understand why he thinks she's lying for no reason:

You think I lie for no reason???

And then Esp jumps on board and gets on Titus's case:

Ok well I don't get an easy bane vote then.

But you're lies about bulba stand.

I think the fact that he's saying that she's lying about Bulba's meta is wayyyyyyyy too strong for someone who's only just started reading the game. The level of confidence that she's lying vs asking her why she has a different perception of Bulba's meta strikes me as distancing rather than someone trying to sort someone. There's also the use of the word 'lying' seems like more of a sheep of TSO saying there's a discrepancy in Titus's posting. It's even worse because there's no vote and he later starts nakedly townreading her with almost no significant interactions in between:

Also Titus is probs town.

ii)

Let's see here, since you're being an ass to me. The claws come out here.

Quote this god gamn case if you want me to read it. There have been multiple references to cases and evidence that people want me to rely on. Getting all hostile when I ask is antitown as best.

It also puts me in the state where I want to lynch you regardless of your alignment and rip your case to shreads.

Calling paragraphs of case that I believe in and am copping flack for that I didn't even wright "evidence" is insulting. You got the claws out first honey.

TTH's case is basically that he couldn't follow Marquis's train of thought. We looked at Marquis following that. Marquis frankly obvtowned himself during that discussion. TTH's case was worth investigating at the time, but Marquis wasn't actually scum. You seemingly have ignoredeverything that goes against your point Espy and are relying on one player misunderstanding one read.

Yeah, this vote is not moving.

Nothing about this back and forth reads as genuine to me. The "I'm getting the claws out" comment from Titus especially strikes me as being fake.

iii) Espeonage's lame Titus vote looks lazy as hell and like he doesn't actually have anything behind it.

Other unrelated points that I'm finding scummy about Titus and Espeonage:

i) Titus's stance on baneing Bulba just looks fake. I have a super hard time believing that she genuinely was okay with the bane on Bulba, regardless of whether she wanted to prove everyone wrong. She defended this by saying her team told her not to defend Bulba. She made a ton of posts saying she personally was okay with the baneing so this also just looks super fake to me.
ii) Espeonage claiming his detect on me could really easily come from a scumPOV. To put it simply, Espeonage knows that he's sketchy and people are suspicious of him. If someone traces him to me and he's unclaimed, then he's in fucking hot water. If he derpclaims it then no pressure anymore. I really don't trust that town Espeonage would claim his detect unless he was worried about himself. That mindset just seems more likely to come from scum who understands the situation he's in.
iii) Titus constantly calling ika town and all of the codestuff feels like she's trying to stay on ika's good side. I think she's paranoid of him and is trying to buddy up to him to try and keep him off her case.
iv) Another weird change from Espeonage:

You self voting is a really bad sign though.

Current List of people ok with being Booned: Marquis

And this is all within sixteen posts of each other and Marquis didn't even post once in between :/
v) Titus started trying to discredit Tammy the moment that she left the game. Looked and felt slimy.
vi) Espeonage ignoring Tammy's reasoning for why he should be listening to ffery over mollie for a read on her looks and feels slimy.
vii) Titus's reasons for scumreading TSO were bullshit.

Sorry. I know this is a lot of words, but I want to talk about this connection I'm seeing and I'm getting a little flustered trying to read other things while this is painting my perspective on the game so much.

[Cheetory6]

I'm gonna go eat cheeseburger soup because oh my god my brain is too full of things atm q.q

[mastin2]

Are you saying that only people who are familiar with your playstyle can analyze your posts?

Oh, anyone can analyze them.

I'd just be deeply, deeply impressed and frankly flabbergasted at someone not familiar with my playstyle who would be able to provide some interesting/unique insight.

Mastin, please answer my question to you.

Gonna need to tell me what that was.

[ActionDan]

Ffery....

I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:

this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.

I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.

As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.

Like this 1 out of the 2:

You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.

The lesson was bad. So?

Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.

[ActionDan]

I think the fact that he's saying that she's lying about Bulba's meta is wayyyyyyyy too strong

BASICALLY THIS.

THANKS GUY WHO'S VOTING FOR ME!

GEE WHIZ!

[Untrod Tripod]

look

singer, espe, dan

I really truly do not care

I just want this day to end

[ActionDan]

Vote Espe!

[Cheetory6]

THANKS GUY WHO'S VOTING FOR ME!

No problem bb.

@mastin

, can you look at esp/titus interactions in my last post and tell me what you think?

Also, this cheeseburger soup is barely acceptable. Disappointed.

[ActionDan]

Maybe you could be a dear and vote that other guy instead of sheeping somebody who's wrong.

[Cheetory6]

Nah. You should talk about some more things. Like instead of nitpicking the one detail of my case that you like, you should tell me what you think of the idea of Titus and Esp being scummates.

[ActionDan]

I mean I don't want to get sassy.

But you're arguing my own point that Ffery is voting me for and that you're sheeping.

@pedit:

I don't ever do associations before flips. So if you want to ask me "Do you think Titus is scum?" (because I gave my 2 cents on Espe) my answer would be that I haven't read her beyond the interaction with Espe... and from that alone I'd say it's possible, but I'm not feeling anything scummy from it.

[Cheetory6]

Do you think I care?
You've made one significant post about one person. I have no idea what you think about anyone right now other than Esp. I'm down to sheep ffery on this vote for pressure alone if it means for you to start playing the game and start taking more actual stances.
Pitch three people you think might be scum and name two people you're townreading and why.

[fferyllt]

Ffery....

I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:

this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.

I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.

As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.

Like this 1 out of the 2:

You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.

The lesson was bad. So?

Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.

Oh the horror! and I was paraphrasing Nacho, how could it be?

I think even a deep and enlightening post about espe would ring a little hollow at this point. one case, on the player with the largest wagon, and then a fade with promises still on the table.

[ActionDan]

Also when you see something like

"Titus is probs town"

it's burden of alignment is on the one who posted it. Drawing associations here prematurely is unwise.

I've read your wall now and I'm just commenting on what you're saying connects Titus/Espeonage. individual points against them have either already been covered by me in the case of Espeonage or are points you'd have to press me to verify in the case of Titus.

[Shadoweh]

Oh. You picked one of my only friends playing left. I wish I could disagree that big post felt weird.

##Unvote

Dan: Do you still think Espe is scum after the inevitable-seeming wagon on him and the way he was kind of resigned to it? Does it not at all remind you of the way the lynch tried to gravitate towards him in that game?

Like UT I really just want to see someone get lynched. If Dan flips town though this is going to be a random lynch that doesn't add much to conversation on the second. :/ I'm really not sure I want to support this since Dan gets more readable the longer the game goes.

[mastin2]

Dear singer, kindly shut the fuck up and stop trying to derail the train.

(Psst, Esp's alignment regardless, she's probably scum.)

[ActionDan]

Ffery....

I don't understand, how could you even think to type something like this:

this feels like you're calling a personality thing scummy.

I have maybe said one thing relating to Espe's personality including both his tone of posting and his personal relations with other players... and that was calling his reachout to tammy patronizing.

As for your other criticisms I really don't appreciate them frankly.

Like this 1 out of the 2:

You agreed with espe's point that titus' reasons for townreading bulba were weak, but you turned it into an "espe is likelier scum" point.

The lesson was bad. So?

Actually I didn't agree with him. I stated as an aside that in general titus' stated reasons for townreading bulba would be weak for me: Replace Titus and Bulba with 2 people of your choice and the result would hold. But the finer point here is what he made of those reasons coming from titus' unique POV. They were used as an attack on Titus much more so than anything else, which is what I found scummy.

Oh the horror! and I was paraphrasing Nacho, how could it be?

I think even a deep and enlightening post about espe would ring a little hollow at this point. one case, on the player with the largest wagon, and then a fade with promises still on the table.

Oh come on. Why the mockery? If you're going to engage me, I expect you to do so with a little competence, especially with the call to rally the troops. I know this sounds stupid coming from me, but I think I deserve more than this.

@Shadoweh:

My memories of that game specifically of his slot were the VT claim and nothing more of consequence from his slot. I don't remember his lynch or the circumstances surrounding it. Regardless, I've decided to approach reads in ways that sap emotion and "feelings" from them (granted, I've got the one only; If you [or anyone else] have noticed I decided that my gamma scum read is stale)... This also would ignore meta. But, I guess for you I'll take a look-see at that game

[mastin2]

It's probably because all of my scum buddies are hardcore ignoring my wagon in hopes that'll disappear. Well, there's maybe one white-knighting me, but she can't vote anyway so I'm not worried about it coming back to bite me in the butt.
I also didn't realize we were voting based on "bareableness"...I might have to change my strategy! Can you comment on my case on Shadoweh?

(This post is horrible, btw.)

[ActionDan]

Do you think I care?
You've made one significant post about one person. I have no idea what you think about anyone right now other than Esp. I'm down to sheep ffery on this vote for pressure alone if it means for you to start playing the game and start taking more actual stances.
Pitch three people you think might be scum and name two people you're townreading and why.

It's unconscionable, if I had the reads you had, to not care that my vote was on someone for pure sheep reasons instead of the person I thought was scum, to say nothing of the congruent opinions that we share.

I don't have 3 people I'm scumreading excluding Espe. And the only person that I have decided that I think is town is Shadoweh. The why part of that involves tokens and play that I thought was town enough to make it probable that she is town.

[mastin2]

Nacho really really doesn't understand why you're failing so hard at reading her, because it feels like it's the sort of read that you should be able to make and then hold on to and not have to look back.

Nacho's feelings are mine!

...Except I have it the other way around! Reading singer as scum is, to me, something that feels like the sort of read that just makes so much sense that once it's made, you should never need to look back at it again.
I'm not lynching her, out of respect to Nacho.

But that doesn't change my feelings on her.