8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[pirate mollie]

okay so through "poe" you had it down to metal and I, but there has been no contingency that if metal flips scum I wld somehow magically be town in your mind. this is the first time that I have heard you say this and it seemed from your posts that you had and metal and I as BOTH scum cos you said, "metal and mollie are the final scum".

so at what point did you decide that we cld not be scum together?

Lol. I was being sarcastic when I said "Yes clearly you're not scum with MS."

why do you keep dodging my questions?

cos you totally are and you still have not explained my motivations for being scum in this game?

[Metal Sonic]

ooba

i have counter trapped you

you evaded my trap when you killed kagami when I was asleep. If you actually posted something "why nacho was wrong", I would have followed up with the kagami lynch as per normal and then you would be in this situation instead.

instead, you counter trapped me with the same logic.


fine...

but here:

if greyice is conftown to you

BECAUSE greyice's reads resonate with you on all levels (this is the vaguest argument you have given for GI-town. It was like magic. Like all of your reads, apparently),

then you should give your vote to GI

even if he is not lynched,

he dictates your vote.

why are you not doing that?



the town thing is to let him decide rather than you strongarming everything like an oracle

do you think he's stupid?

do you think he's scum?

do you think you're better than him?

[ooba]

okay so through "poe" you had it down to metal and I, but there has been no contingency that if metal flips scum I wld somehow magically be town in your mind. this is the first time that I have heard you say this and it seemed from your posts that you had and metal and I as BOTH scum cos you said, "metal and mollie are the final scum".

so at what point did you decide that we cld not be scum together?

Lol. I was being sarcastic when I said "Yes clearly you're not scum with MS."

why do you keep dodging my questions?

cos you totally are and you still have not explained my motivations for being scum in this game?

Your motivations or lack thereof for being scum will be clear with an MS flip.

If he flips scum, your entire D3\D4 of reading him as "Oh this person is scummy", "I wouldn't touch a town block with him with a 10ft pole" contrasted with D5's turnaround is all the evidence I need.

[Metal Sonic]

your reads are the exact opposite of mine, ooba

I had ABR,ZZZX (and myself) as strong town, Nacho and GI as paranoid reads

you have Nacho and GI as strong town, ABR and ZZZX (and myself) as paranoid reads


do you know what you remind me of?

you remind me of this

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

I had to bend head over backwards and do a somersault split because TWOH (whom I thought was town) was banging mason bulba all the way.

so if I see someone actually going against the flow I should not think the obvious thing which is (they are town)

[Metal Sonic]

ZZZX is NOT confirmed town.

Agree with this.

ZZZX posting rates are 10x from the town games I've played with him. Not to mention tone\seriousness etc. This could be just because it's team Mafia and the playlist, but there's no particular push\post so far that's made me go 'Town'.

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

If both flip town... There won't be a game to play

What is this dude?

Because it's 5:4 on D4?

Exactly why I don't want to agree to lynch GreyIce\Nacho today and tomorrow.

And I've already said I'll stop playing if both Kagami and Sotty are town - so I'm pretty confident it won't be 5:4 if that's what happens.

Are you going lurking = scum?

This is literally the reasoning for all your scumreads :/

By your definition your slot is also up for the game!

No I'm not fucking going lurking = scum.

I'm going PoE. Strong town reads and sort out the rest by looking at who pushes whom.

Here are instances where Nacho is town:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

Here are instances where GreyIce is town:
a) I haven't been lynched as town in four years
b) I should stop playing if we don't get at least 2 scum flips in these four people
c) Plus he's been pushing scum all game long

You can't fake town belief.

Anybody who thinks that the scum team is Nacho\GreyIce\me\?? is in la-la land.

Finished reading the thread.

There was NOTHING - not even a wiggle in D2 that made me shake the Nacho\GreyIce town reads. The discussion of who to lynch after their deaths.

They aren't reverse psychology geniuses. I've played with Nacho scum - I know how he operates. This was genuine town posting.

I've never played with GreyIce before (I think?) - but his posting resonates with me on every level. Again - the "I'll give you four names, you can lynch me"

- I hated that mollie retracted her town read on Nacho after replacing in. But posting's at par with what I've seen of mollie town.
- Kagami feels like mislynch bait
I'll have to ISO stuff again and see if this fits, but this is where I'm standing at right now. Their mutual read lists all fit the profile.

So you have {Sotty, Zar, ZZZX, wgeurts}

@MS:

What I read from Vezo’s statement is a lot of paranoia.

My town game is simple - find scum, lynch them. My reads are my shield.
- Capcom, pressured by a lot of slots - dayvig asks for a shot. I give them adorable. Shoots him - flips scum. I’m Conf town - die to a nightkill that night.
I see a Sotty lynch in the same light. Sotty flips scum - game breaks open.

If I was scum, a Sotty lynch does nothing for me
- with Nacho, I would have milked the bus for all it’s worth. A town Sotty flip would only make Nahco\me even more scum in your\ABR eyes. There’s no long term value there.
- and Nacho is town - I would have taken the Nacho mislynch. I don’t want a town player of his caliber staying along.

@ZZZX:

I’m scum reading you for the interactions amongst those I don’t have as town. Wge read. The three scum reads who I have as possibly town {def. Nacho, Grey}. Plus a lot of D2 not spent talking about game that much. ('Can you put reads in this format?')

@ABR: "I'm not voting Sotty, that's who Nacho wanted to lynch D1."

I think we're both coming from the same place with different assumptions.
- I'm reading Sotty as scum -> Hence Nacho who pushed him on D1 has to be town
- You're reading Nacho as scum -> Hence his D1 push is town

---

@ZZZX: You're fourth on a list which I'll surely reevaluate after flips.

Also tell ika I'm sad I replaced into a vanilla game.

---

If we are mislynching Nacho, I want us to follow the vengeful lynch route.

He's clearly changed his reads on mollie.

I'm townreading her because normally when I vote her and that vote is correct, she crumples like a paper bag. That is clearly not happening here.

I'm actually scared we're heading for another mislynch tomorrow.

\inb4 ooba-scum with mollie

I would have probably lurked out the day as scum with a token vote.

There is no way you can survive like that with Seraphim's almost-Hoopla-level play. A moot point. Why are you raising this?

Because it's what I would have done as scum.

Like I said - lack of motivation. I don't think I've ever survived to an endgame as scum.

On the other hand, I fight tooth and nail as town. I've also never been mislynched in the last x years as town.

---

@MS: You are really letting paranoia get the better of you.

^pedit: The most recent experience

VOTE: Ooba

I'm not one to snub the town block, as opposed to everybody else here it seems.

The town bloc is just town - it can (and in this and Nacho's case, is.) be wrong.

I get my vengeful lynch tomorrow.

Whether or not Ooba flips scum, my vote is on Nacho tomorrow.

Congrats - you've just lost the game for town.

If our wagon is 5 or more, and idiot town are not on the counter wagon, we *should* push through.

Two idiot scum already on the counter wagon to scum.

Zero paranoia in ooba's posts. Wont consider grey or nacho. Wont follow town block. Eliminate him!

I'm more fucking paranoid about you\MS since we're getting so much opposition than I would ever be about Nacho\Grey. They are 100% on the reads.

ZZZX's 'Lets not lynch Sotty' 'What about Kagami' is right there in front of you.

MS, I need you to get your head into the fucking game.
- D1, Shotty wagon builds up. Who offers resistance? ABR
- D2, Sotty wagon viable alternative to Nacho. Gets shot down. Again, who's there?
- D3, Who fails to uphold Nachos dying wish? Again, same guy.

Pedit: The fact that you keep taking about a distraction instead of the game is annoying and scummy.
You cannot be 'oh if nacho dies - his reads are 100% and then ignore his sotty vengeful'

I need all fucking townies to be on game here. 6 town - 6 to lynch. If you're town, man or woman the hell up and join the sotty wagon.

why the fuck are metal and abr in a town block that anybody is listening to when they just lynched hoppla and then nacho? and took great pains to interfere with my process to sort out nacho?

They haev done a lot of bullshit. I know.

But they are town. That much havent changed. Do you think one of them is scum?

Clearly.

- Both lynched Nacho by creating an air of fear, uncertainty and doubt about that player slot
- When faced with opposition, they reaction with "But a town Nacho flip will tell us lots. We can use that in the days going forward"

- ABR in particular is guilty of the following things:
a) When I pressured him as to who exactly we lynch when Nacho flips town, he replied with Kagami to which I pointed out that Nacho changed his reads
b) Even when Nacho explicitly put Sotty at the front of the list, he tried changing that with a "So Nach do you prefer Sotty or Kagami lynch tomorrow?"
c) And voting Kagami today is just hilarious

- MS
a) Suddenly he wants Sotty to come in - town it up and "doesn't want to follow Nacho's plan"? After all that bullshit about Nacho being the best player on site and how it'll help us if his reads are "100% confirmed"


Both aren't scum - but my intuition says one is. This analysis is obviously predicated on Sotty being scum. I'll figure it out after the flip. Either way - I'm going after this bunch last. Lots of other scum to fry.

also because greyice is on sotty and that is suspicious. something is brewing.

If Sottys town, we lose because it will be trivially easy for scum to get a mislynch tomorrow.

I still stand by statement that greyice is town.

Scums best chance of winning this game is to push mislynches down our throat and win outright. Every scum lynch swings momentum back town side. A scum sotty flip should all but clear that dude since he's been on his case since D1.

MS, I've provided nuggets or highlights of why I think nacho was and grey ice is town. I don't do very big cases because it usually involves taking minor points and using them in an argument either way.

I will give you a bullet point about what my reads\highlights are for each person in the playerlist. However, all my analysis and reads are built on the foundation of sotty scum. So ill do that after the flip. I don't want to waste a lot of work only to fall flat on my face if its wrong.

I think that your points for GI-town in the above quote are weak and I think that you know it!

I wouldn't feel this strongly if they are weak. Dude's mirrored my thought process throughout. But I'll try and list it down

Don't quicklynch Kagami tomorrow. (Well, we can if Sotty flips town).

But if Sotty flips scum, I'd like to have my say on who the scum are. I have Kagami as town.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Nobody's doing any fucking lynch before I have my say. Unvote now.

Kagami is town.

[ooba]

if greyice is conftown to you

BECAUSE greyice's reads resonate with you on all levels (this is the vaguest argument you have given for GI-town. It was like magic. Like all of your reads, apparently),

then you should give your vote to GI

even if he is not lynched,

he dictates your vote.

why are you not doing that?



the town thing is to let him decide rather than you strongarming everything like an oracle

do you think he's stupid?

do you think he's scum?

do you think you're better than him?

I think he's conftown. But why in gods name would I give my vote to him?

I think my read on you being scum is more on point than his own opinions.

You've clearly run out of options:
- First, it was ratings - apparently if you're town, mine are going to be down - yeah sure
- Then, it was "Why don't you consult team mates?"
- Now it's "If GreyIce is conftown to you, why don't you listen to him?"

There's no scenario where I change my vote from you today.

[Metal Sonic]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Nobody's doing any fucking lynch before I have my say. Unvote now.

Kagami is town.

No lynch her with us so we can be sure of that.
Please do it so I can factor you in when she flips.

I don't want this to become another one of 'his reads are too perfect' when Kagami flips town.

I want to highlight my thought process behind who I think is scum now - what town reads are and why I came to the conclusions I did.

If possible, I would like to use this particular series of posts to move the lynch to actually scum.

Scum really wanted to push it to 5:4 with a mislynch yesterday. Analyse everything from that - you will arrive at the truth.

Similary, we are at 6:3 they want to push today's mislynch ahead too. Let's analyse the sotty flip. Let's look at interactions.

Discussion people. And I will lead it.

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

It's coming to 1 am now and I want to fruit ninja your post on the Sunday morning

You got to approach it with a fresh perspective man. Unbiased.

You can be the first one to see the light. Together, we will bring down the evil and scummy.

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

See the differance is this:
while nacho was obvtown and very contenful kagami was not and a lurksack + the "follow the plan" is in motion so that affects the situation too.
Thus your analysis is misguided.

We're past the point where isolated scum tells such 'Kagami is a lurksack' is valid reasons enough to push for a lynch.

You have a scum flip. You now have proved scum-??? interactions. You analyse them - you find scum and you lynch.

When pushing for a lynch - you now have to keep asking yourself 'Who the hell is scum with this person. So Sotty + Kagami + ??? + ??? - those other two'

Ok - you say GreyIce as a possible third? You analyse 'GreyIce' ~ 'Sotty' interactions. You'll come with the feeling that "HEY - THATS NOT A BUS" - and you'll know Grey is town.

So Grey is town? Who else can it be?
- wgeurts: Improbable because he had already made comments to the tune of 'Hey if nacho flips town lynch Kagami' on D2. Not going to do that with a scum partner.
- ZZZX: "Hey Guys what about Kagami?" on D2 and the pace of voting now - impossible to be a scum partner
- ABR with his instant vote on Kagami D3? - Nope
- Zar voted Kagami D2 when bussing was the best and far superior option. - Nope
- ooba? My first entry of the game was "Nacho-Ice sure town. One of Sotty\Kagami def scum" -> Really a double bus first post? Nope

That leaves MS and mollie. I can't remember anything from memory that particularly counters these pairings.

So could be {Sotty, Kagami, MS, mollie} - literally the only pairing that makes sense with Kagami scum. But when you have a town lean on mollie - but a 'at least I townread this slot before; I shouldn't question my early town reads' on MS - you realise even that is kinda not probable.

Hence your initial assumption was wrong. The building comes crumbling down - and only one thought survives the chaos that ensues. 'Kagami is town' and you are pretty certain of it.

Why is busing not a valid option? as long as a town block is in order the only way for scum to win is to bus like WTF

Sure bussing is a valid option.

So which interaction did you think was the bus in the above post?
a) GreyIce - Sotty
b) Ooba - Sotty\Kagami
.. Any of the other ones

Lets dig up arguments on both side of the 'Did wgeurts really bus? Read the shocking details in this post!' vs 'No way! Dude's town pushing on scum Kagami!'. We argue.

Whichever way Kagami (or our eventually lynchee) flips - we have far more information and a far more informed choice.

Discussion - this is how you win games. Not 'This is the plan! I wont think at all' way.

We are not lemmings. We're here to play the game.

I never said not to discuss, But it wont change today's lynch. but it will affect other day's lynches.

Why is this?

On D2, I pushed the hardest I ever have to lynch Sotty instead of Nacho. And faced stiff resistance because 'It's better this way. We'd know he's town for sure'.

So what?

A sotty SCUM lynch would have broken the game wide open and CLEARED a (STILL WOULD BE LIVING) TOWN nacho.

So you'll know Kagami's true alignment tomorrow? She flips town, what exactly is going to change?

You lynch <Scummy person> today and they flip SCUM.

You know who those interactions and vote patterns will clear? Kagami.
You know what else we gain for every scum lynch? A mislynch.

Just because we lynched scum yesterday doesn't mean we don't lynch our best candidate to be scum with Sotty.

VOTECOUNT 4.1

Kagami (3) - ZZZX, wgeurts, GreyICE

THIS WAGON IS HAPPENING BOOBA

ZZZX (0) -

Not Voting (6) - Albert B. Rampage, Kagami, Ooba, Pirate Mollie, Zar, Metal Sonic

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

You know what - the more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

I thought it was ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR - but somethings did make me pause on that today:
- Wgeurts sudden turn around - I really cannot see scum making a dramatic turn around like this. Plus I would have pegged ABR to be the one they select to slaughter their own team mates.
- Read back on ZZZX's promise. He seems incredibly calm to following Nacho's lynch list - even with Sotty leading the list. Now, the other three names would be town in that scenario - but he knew town would have stopped at town-kagami.

So let's go ahead with Kagami
- A Kagami scum flip would clear all of these - ABR\Wgeurts\ZZZX for me
- And on a town flip - I can tell you why I thought ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR makes sense as a team

Vote: Kagami

[ooba]

Why don't you go ahead and lynch me today then?

Vengeful lynch choice: MS

[Metal Sonic]

if greyice is conftown to you

BECAUSE greyice's reads resonate with you on all levels (this is the vaguest argument you have given for GI-town. It was like magic. Like all of your reads, apparently),

then you should give your vote to GI

even if he is not lynched,

he dictates your vote.

why are you not doing that?



the town thing is to let him decide rather than you strongarming everything like an oracle

do you think he's stupid?

do you think he's scum?

do you think you're better than him?

I think he's conftown. But why in gods name would I give my vote to him?

I think my read on you being scum is more on point than his own opinions.

You've clearly run out of options:
- First, it was ratings - apparently if you're town, mine are going to be down - yeah sure
- Then, it was "Why don't you consult team mates?"
- Now it's "If GreyIce is conftown to you, why don't you listen to him?"

There's no scenario where I change my vote from you today.

ratings dont seem to be a good leverage against you

cause your team is um.

you are arguably the strongest player on the team. there. i said it.


"Why don't you consult teammates?"

sorry bro.

I mean that

scum don't have to consult teammates because they don't need them. just look town. lynch town. you don't even have to find scum. just pretend that you are. you don't need teammates for that.


- Now it's "If GreyIce is conftown to you, why don't you listen to him?"

what is your answer?

"i am better than GreyICE"

Lol.

if you are town, I want to cut you out of your tunnel. it is my job and I would be throwing if I did not do so.

If you are scum like that sour wisdom experience then that is why I am raising back my guns instead of flopping dead from your personal attack

[pirate mollie]

Your motivations or lack thereof for being scum will be clear with an MS flip.

If he flips scum, your entire D3\D4 of reading him as "Oh this person is scummy", "I wouldn't touch a town block with him with a 10ft pole" contrasted with D5's turnaround is all the evidence I need.

so you think I am scum for waffling on my metal read? am I understanding this correctly? so what is your case based on prior to d3? can you explain the motivations for my d2 play?

you are giving me pat answers but I am still confused as to why you think I am scum cos so far I have not seen a solid reason for it and you are dodging my questions. like there is no organic progression here at all. and you haven't answered me on the issue of what motivation wld I have for swapping into a player who can read me with 99% accuracy and it is kind of well-known?

[Metal Sonic]

Why don't you go ahead and lynch me today then?

Vengeful lynch choice: MS

you bait me. you bait me hard.

i wish i did not have to be responsible for my actions so I can dayvig you and nobody looks at me

[wgeurts]

Mollie just vote MS so we can lynch ICE tommorow.
MS flipping scum will show ooba's town. Him flipping town gives us a sheep vote.
Win win
Metal >>>> ICE Lynch Plan

Just join

[ooba]

While I don't appreciate your framing of my answer as "i am better than GreyICE" - I just think my game state read makes more sense seeing whats happening here.

---

@Mollie

: You replaced into Eddie's slot at a time where it was being scum read by Nacho for you calling Nacho 'town' out of nowhere. I can see the scum motivation there. You can throw numbers around like "Nacho reads me as town 99% of the time" - but in this game - nobody is that accurate.

But it gives you this exact WIFOM defense. "Would I really replace into a game in such a situation"

MS is pushed by me.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.

- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS
- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" - Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

[pirate mollie]

While I don't appreciate your framing of my answer as "i am better than GreyICE" - I just think my game state read makes more sense seeing whats happening here.

---

@Mollie

: You replaced into Eddie's slot at a time where it was being scum read by Nacho for you calling Nacho 'town' out of nowhere. I can see the scum motivation there. You can throw numbers around like "Nacho reads me as town 99% of the time" - but in this game - nobody is that accurate.

But it gives you this exact WIFOM defense. "Would I really replace into a game in such a situation"

MS is pushed by me.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.

- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS
- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" - Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

I am asking you to explain the exact scum motivation for replacing into this slot in a game that some1 who can read me 99% of the time in like 50 games and you are completely unable to do so. at no point are you trying to sort me out during this conversation, instead a terribad case based on flimsy reasons. I am flat out calling you out on this shit.

i did engage you with your metal case. I even said at the time that I was likely to go against my team's wishes and vote him but I wanted time to think about it first. I have thought about it and I simply don't know. so yes am in full engagement with you this whole time, I feel like you were the 1 who tried to marginalize me, not the other way around.

[wgeurts]

Mollie voting MS, may clear him as town.
I also have his vote if he's wrong, so if he's wrong we can do what we want.

We have 3 mislynches, vote MS!

The resistance has been hilarious.

[ooba]

I am asking you to explain the exact scum motivation for replacing into this slot in a game that some1 who can read me 99% of the time in like 50 games and you are completely unable to do so.

Eddie was being scum read by Nacho for the throwaway comment that you called Nacho "town".

A wagon was building up - you might have been lynched. There's scum motivation.

Votecount 2.9

Nachomamma8 (3) - wgeurts, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
EddieFenix (3) - Nachomamma8, GreyICE, Sotty7
Kagami (2) - Zar, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - EddieFenix

Not Voting (2) - Kagami, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

---

If we're talking about scum motivation - what's mine for doing the 1:1 vs MS? When I've just had two partners lynched back to back?

I have an airtight case against MS. I know he'll flip scum.

If you're town, I'll know for sure tomorrow. I haven't looked at why Sotty voted you and your replace in and reactions yet. Because - I already have one scum and I'm going to get him lynched.

But even you can see why I find your resistance to the wagon and total about turn on both MS\me scummy.

[pirate mollie]

I am asking you to explain the exact scum motivation for replacing into this slot in a game that some1 who can read me 99% of the time in like 50 games and you are completely unable to do so.

Eddie was being scum read by Nacho for the throwaway comment that you called Nacho "town".

A wagon was building up - you might have been lynched. There's scum motivation.

so you think that my team had me swap with eddie cos I have a sooper dooper good scum game where I can sneak past nacho and bus my scummate and somehow...get away with it?

I am all for some1 saying that I can play a great scumgame but so far no1 has. I feel like I have slow gradual shifts in improving, I thought I did well in capscom. but my hydra was vigged so meh. I swapped into this game cos nacho was scumreading eddie for dumb reasons. <----- town motivation. and I believe my posts will reflect the transparency of this motivation.

If we're talking about scum motivation - what's mine for doing the 1:1 vs MS? When I've just had two partners lynched back to back?

I have an airtight case against MS. I know he'll flip scum.

If you're town, I'll know for sure tomorrow. I haven't looked at why Sotty voted you and your replace in and reactions yet. Because - I already have one scum and I'm going to get him lynched.

But even you can see why I find your resistance to the wagon and total about turn on both MS\me scummy.

I already outlined a possible situation where you wld have scum motivation for 1v1ing metal; you ignored that. and so far what I can gather from this dialogue is the only way I cld be town is if metal is town. cos according to you we can be scum together.

and nonononono, I want you to look at sotty's interactions with me and my interactions with that lynch. and then explain to me why you think that wld come from optimal scumplay.

I think your metal case is decent, that is why interacted with you about it while you are saying that I never interacted with you. and no my reconsideration is not scummy it is town!me looking closer at my reads and closing off holes in my logic cos this is what I do. AND YOU KNOW THIS. <------ this is what is bugging the crap out of me.

your read on me looks like a tarantula amputee and not the organic progression that I wld expect from something naturally formulated. I am still not getting a clear picture as to why you think I am scum.

[wgeurts]

Mollie,
Prove your town to him by voting MS!

[ooba]

Mollie twice wgeurts has reached out to you and twice you have not responded.

I'm not having this day shift from 'MS is scum' to why 'Mollie could be scum'

I'm getting MS lynched. He is going to flip scum. Feel free to hop on.

If you think I'm scum, feel free to vote me. I'm going to vengeful lynch MS.

[pirate mollie]

Mollie twice wgeurts has reached out to you and twice you have not responded.

I'm not having this day shift from 'MS is scum' to why 'Mollie could be scum'

I'm getting MS lynched. He is going to flip scum. Feel free to hop on.

If you think I'm scum, feel free to vote me. I'm going to vengeful lynch MS.

wguerts is telling me to vote whom he wants voted which I am unwilling to do at this time cos I am trying to sort you out while you keeping dodging my questions. wguerts is not really reaching out IMO.

I am trying to sort out metal and I am trying to sort out you since you both are in my unsure category. this is not rocket science or a complicated calculus problem that I am asking you to sort out I am being pretty transparent with my posts. I want you to explain the scum motivations of what has transpired in this game wrt me and you seem to not be able to.

I have asked you how metal and I cld be a possible scumteam and you have not answered that.

I have asked you how sotty and I make sense as a scumteam together and you haven't answered that either.

[ooba]

I've explained how
- Your turn around on MS is scummy
- Your replace in could have had scum motivations
But, yes, I am dodging your questions.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

Ooba, I don't think you answered this.

ooba - i've asked this like three times and apparently you can't see what I type. So, mind telling me why you've been town reading skitty since early on?
please and thank you.

Ooba is bullshitting his reads and it's more obvious than obvious.

edit: I think that ooba is bullshitting his reads. I think it's the most basic way to determine ooba's alignment and he proved it in his posts in day one.

@ ooba

why are you ignoring me. I am asking you point blank.

ooba it is me, mollie. whom you have ignored.

19. ooba = Ryu Hazuki - Town Mason Cop via night kill N2

12. Southern Belles (pirate mollie + Tammy) = Mech Zangief - Mafia Macho Bulletproof via night kill N2

[Metal Sonic]

Mollie voting MS, may clear him as town.
I also have his vote if he's wrong, so if he's wrong we can do what we want.

We have 3 mislynches, vote MS!

The resistance has been hilarious.

There are only 2 scum left. All the resistance is town resistance.

I am town and I never had to force you into doing deals.

[pirate mollie]

no, you have not explained how my turn on metal is scummy, all you keep saying is that it is scummy w/o ever giving reasons as to why.

the replace in motivations are based on baseless wifom spec, so no that does not work either.

so are you saying that I am capable of playing a scum game cos I can't get any1 to say this at all. you sure as fuck didn't give me any credit in the capscom game. and this just looks like you are trying to dig up a smokescreen in order to evade answering my questions because I don't really think you can.

VOTE: ooba

[ooba]

no, you have not explained how my turn on metal is scummy, all you keep saying is that it is scummy w/o ever giving reasons as to why.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.
- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS

- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" -

Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

[pirate mollie]

no, you have not explained how my turn on metal is scummy, all you keep saying is that it is scummy w/o ever giving reasons as to why.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.
- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS

- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" -

Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

my team says that he is conftown, I on the another hand had my doubts and said as much which you leaped all over when you asked for my voting metal help. so yeah, I have pretty much been waffling and my posts demonstrate that.