Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[EddieFenix]

So eh. Who thinks that T-boner is scum?

-nod-

mmhmm

vote T-boner [/b

[TierShift]

Spoiler: longpost

The whole p8 discussion about prior roles looks stupid as hell. there's nothing to be learnt from that, and I have no idea why it is even done. notsci's evasive answers make me icky, but they're all irrelevant so I'm not going to give that too much weight.

@Rhinox 202: the 'if any' is key. this can be paraphrased in more details as "I am not supporting a policy lynch, but even if I did, I don't see how *who* is the target over *notscience*, since he is hated."

@notci, 203: what was the purpose of you lying there, knowingly? are you really hated or are you lying tehre too?

LLD's 206 sounds like genuine disappoint. I feel you too btw, but my rage went off after getting the *first* town role pm :/
but why is the vote on me?

@218: what was bad in that at the time? I did claim my prior role, and got a single scumread and two townreads which I think I explained; I don't see how this counts against me?

And why do you bring it up like 13 posts after LLD voted me?

ignore cuz 223

It's a better choice than blindly pursuing something I'm not fully confident in myself to the point where it will likely become a tunnel that won't stop.

What do you think of shos? Comments were made early about people potentially using the claims to avoid doing anything, his ISO doesn't really do much even though he never claims. He has a fair amount of posts, he declares two townreads and a scumread but that's about it.

I think his decision to try and put attention onto the mysterious scoring thing in our current game state is suspicious.

Can you elaborate please on this? I mean is that what made you vote me? I'm a mathematician, wherever numbers are I'm focusing. but regardless - why would you NOT try to figure out the score thing? this is public knowledge which probably can affect the game somehow somewhen.

lol@222 ceph
that post is like me when I'm scum

223 is a good post with town mindset imo. I think this post alone legits a mild townread on NS.

@ceph's longpost @me 245:
1. I don't think the mods are shit. But in general, most mods don't shift mindsets completely between games in this regard. As a mod myself, I know that usually my fakeclaims don't change in shape. That means, I don't, say, one time give full fakeclaims, one time give only name, one time tell them give me something and I'll build for you. It's often the same.

2. You know what, I'll revoke my statement there, yes. you calling it pointless would be worth the vote and all, exspecially gamestart, but then the fact that you cooperated shows that this was not intended to actually stop this from happening, and rather was just a statement of your thoughts, after not-so-deep thinking.

3. the idea was that he brought that up, which, supposedly can only help town; and then it's like he's trying to force a weak townread on himself at a super early gamestate because of it. the word I'm looking for is suggestion. Town would bring it up for the information it may give; that post looked like a 'hey look what a townie thing I did, how bout you townread me for it?'

4. disregard.


Ceph, I asked you in 249 what was the purpose of the intentional badposts in gamestart and you haven't answered it, it seems, but it matters no more. The reason I did this was because I often start games with acting scummy to pull reactions and start the game quicker. I'm saying this because I saw people are scumreading me, and it has to be because of gamestart play because I practically wasn't here for like three days so.

Can you explain to me what made you *confident* that I am scum in 253?

Rhinox, can you explain to me 252? I quoted those because these are important details to remember. and clearly you haven't seen me try hard as scum, lol. If you'd like I can dig up some scumgames for you. I had only 2 in like, the last 123 years.

TS, I was falling behind on the game. I was not oging anywhere with this, I was just trying to catch up and work with anything that seemed workable. Why do you avoid taking a stance on it, and just ask questions? This looks a lot like the buddybuddying you've done to me in prior games. I know I'm a sucker for this so I'm trying to be aware for these shits nowadays

T-Bone, asmuch as I like you defending me and/or townreading me(or was that Reck? :/ ), could you please elaborate?

(btw I'm on page 11 if you guys aren't following)


HOLY SHIT MOLLIE YAAAAAAA <3
but seriously, Tbone's reaction is assholish >_>

@Copper 267 - why is him "returning" to lurkmode makes him "increasinly scummy"? how is that alignment indicative?
and re: who - nope? why would he be?

NS's 269 sucks loads of butt. PLing a lurker all of a sudden?

oh for the love of god TS and copper you two need to shut the fuck up I'm tired of reading you


I'll keep commenting soon, I wanna eat some.

I like this post, I see freely flowing thoughts which I associate with town-shos.

meanwhile this is worthy of being done
UNVOTE: Ceph

(btw, did anyone investigate the score thing yet? does unvoting and voting trully work with it? we can test this very easily if everyone cooperates)

And the scoring thing fits in that and I feel like the people bashing him for talking about it are scummy; it's a very easy thing to scumread someone for talking about scoring and that has nothing to do with alignment. Let me see who the people were that did this.

Katsuki not re-evaluating in the light of much better posts does him no favors and his team can ATE all it wants. 536 was a great post and his total lack of comment on it or any recent shos posts just reinforces my whole picture.

How do you feel about rhinox not evaluating either?

regarding shos

Again, this looks like a real thought process to me. I've seen a lot of town players get paranoid about wagons that build too quickly, which I see as a usually unjustified fear but I understand it. He's giving out a lot of townpoints to this wagon, too, despite the fact that I can see several players on it I at least am not townreading strongly.

Reck what the fuck are you talking about?
can youtown please start playing and not spit crap?

This line reminded me forcefully of shos' play in Inuyasha, finally. I wouldn't appreciate it nearly as much were it not aggression against an explicit townread. He wants his townread to get in the game -- it's not a mudsling as it would appear to be otherwise.

I am not hard townreading shos here but posts like this definitely make me want to return to the drawing board for at least a moment. And that's why it bothers me not to see that. Katsuki looks more locked onto a mislynch target and determined not to let go. If he wanted to try to paint these posts as scummy, I could accept that if it was done passably, but you don't ignore three walls by your top suspect who was previously pretty much lurking.

I like that ceph is the first one to reconsider shos after pushing him hard and seeing that there is still support for his wagon.

ffs I am a horrible bitch in games. I am trying to get better

It's okay mollie

Anyway if you are coming off shos scum take a look at Rhinox, I need a shower.

Marking this as lead for NK

[TierShift]

Spoiler: defence against shos

I'm currently going through Shos's posts trying to figure out how his stance on me works.

First, he finds my post 223 town enough to gain a townlean on it's own.

Then, 269 where I say I would be fine lynching cabd if I saw nothing from him soon, gains me massive scumpoints. I never said this was a PL (granted I think in my initial readup response I did but I think I mistook this post for my wall post where I said I was fine wiht lynching tbone. I never said this was a PL.

That post alone, was enough to override the initial townread and shove me into probscum. That doesn't seem like a town mindset.

@284 - the idea is not that I agree/disagree with that post at all. I think it's wrong, yes, but that is irrelevant, because the reason I think it is wrong is information that I think a townie may not think of, ergo, this can come from a town mindset. note that I said I *CAN* see how this..etc, not I *THINK* that this..etc. The idea is that it is not a "OH YOU MUST BE TOWN", and rather a, "oh you may be town after all". and yeah, of course these stuff can be faked, everything can be faked. I'm very good as scum, you don't have to teach me. GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE TUNNEL. this is not a me-building-up-for-scumreading-you (I'm not, as of now, in case you missed), this is NOT ABOUT YOU. so it does not even matter if you said this too.

that's because you're building up to scumread me! I don't like the nitpicking word choice, but I just wanted to quote this because this feels like exactly what you are doing to me, and you're just like "dw ceph Im not doing it to you!"

His post to reck feels like he's testing the waters on one of the only two people liable to defend me if he wanted to start a wagon on me, given that most of his reasons to scumread me are flimsy and false its like he was looking for a way to get a scumread going on me because his teammates said that only two people were townreading me.

wtf. like on the one hand I'd very much like to vote you right now and on the other I see all the votes piling so quick that it makes sense you're just being scumvoted

Katsuki (5): Iecerint, copper223, Lady Lambdadelta, Cephrir, pirate mollie
This wagon is a good wagon. mark these guys on it as a group of at least 4 townies

Also should be taking some looks at those who lurked so far. it's been a week almost, no excuses

Why did I get scumread for expressing interest in a lurker then? Why is that wagon a "good wagon" and why are all of those people town? What happeened to "mollie hasn't posted enough to townread her?" You've said ceph is town. That's the only person on this wagon you've committed a read on up until this point and hten you just throw this in there like "oh this wagon has at least 4 town!" which doesn't make any sense considering the only reads you have given up until this point are Me, Reck, TS, and ceph.

A big thread in his catchups is "noone has given any reasons I'm easily scum" which I will reread and verify, but I remember at least asking LLD to elaborate some on her shos read.

I can live with a kats lynch but I'd rather an NS lynch as of now.

You've commented on 3 posts of mine. 1 was a townish post. 1 was a post where I was interested in a lurker that you took for a PL but was moreso for what everyone else said about scum-him would want to hide and promise shit that never comes. 1 was a post where you accuse me of parroting that is blatantly false if you read the thread. This looks like you setting yourself up to join kats wagon later and then push me tomorrow.

And then "lol havent voted better vote ns"

I don't understand how this is a logical thought pattern at all.

I like this post. NS looks like he's trying to get shos's thought process rather than overly defending himself or immediately OMGUS'ing.

let's talk! I think you are town, how does this make you feel? I also have no particular interest in the two main wagons (shos, katsuki) that have cropped up today. They don't interest me because I haven't had the opportunity to be involved with either player. My feelings on Tier are pretty much the same, and in my gut I don't like Ceph right now. Any of those reads we should discuss?

Feels like townlurking.

It feels like you are giving a buddy wiggle room after an early push on him.

I just don't see him really pursuing any other wagon so its odd he's complaining about there being no other wagon. In know he was voting you and got pissy that nobody else seemed interested in voting you, but I didn't see him all too concerned with convincing anyone to vote you so... :shrug: He's also made some big posts recently but out of all that I'm still not sure he's committed to any read. I'm not sure what about my question makes you think what you did.

this game doesn't look like any other wagon is viable but me and kats.

who else do you think we should be wagoning?

I've no problem with that, but if you insist, any of NS and TS are scumdidates imo.

Well I don't see any way that I'd be voting kats or NS today, so talk to me about TS. Can you give me a few sentences on why he's scum?

Rhinox looks like he's exploring all avenues explorable.

Tier has enough posts for people to develop a read off of. Not posting because he's not posting isn't one of them. It's lazy.

Endorsed.

Ok T-Bone, I can see Tier being scum here:

VOTE: Tier

He is switching tones too often, he was very dogmatic and authoritative to start out with, I am still iffy on the way he pushed on me and then backed off, and after the T-Bone argument he has shut down only to follow up on my: possibly he is demotivated after the argument with T-Bone using a similar argument about not having the motivation to play mafia which looks pretty manipulative, while at the same time calling me out for giving meta about him that wasn't even a read, which looks hyper defensive.

I has sad

VOTE: cephrir

Why did you vote ceph here, NS?

[shos]

Could you sum up your current reads, TS, in two sentences tops per read?

Did the flips make you reconsider?

[TierShift]

One thing that confuses me about Cephrir is that I feel like he would have picked up on players townreading him for crumbing knowledge about the score system, but then he expressed paranoia about people townreading him.

Like, I assume he crumbed it with knowledge that it would probably make people townread him. Which is fine. But then it's weird to get paranoid about people townreading you.

I assume he voted you based on an inference that my ONE WEIRD TRICK ABOUT CEPHRIR post was inviting pressure on you. Mostly it was just intended to address that you'd alluded to confusion on that point enough that I thought it might warrant clearing-up (whether because you didn't intend to imply it, or because your reads are being warped by something easy to understand). But he is welcome to correct me.

One thing that did occur to me about hyposcumCephrir is that it's possible that you did not intend to imply such knowledge as scum, and then simply neglected to correct people's inference. But I don't know why scumCephrir would express paranoia in that case, particularly.

I don't think you're scum.

My point is that even the circumstances that allow you to be scum are pretty zany.

(Which is probably relevant to people rationally townreading you in this game.)

(Which might be relevant to how you read players.)

I don't really like Iec's catchup posts but this is pretty perceptive, which is good.

I feel like I'm starting to understand shos better now and I'm starting to doubt my read on him.

I agree with the sentiment that this game is becoming difficult because almost everyone is looking town. This is kinda making me want to start purging all the lurkers/active lurkers/ppl that keep popping in now and then but haven't really been doing anything. There's probably at least 1 scum in Cabd, Reck, LLD, and Tier.

UNVOTE: for now so I can reevaluate things.

And also it seems like everyone is going to be VLA this weekend but just a reminder

I'll be LA as well this weekend and every weekend

, but especially this weekend because I'm traveling out of town for my wife's baby shower so today after 4 until sometime sunday evening I probably won't be able to do much more than phonepost.

Umm I need to see where this goes. I think the switch on shos is kind of late and might be motivated by people stopping scumreading shos.

Rhinox, why did you start to understand shos from this point?

It's really annoying to me that this mini theme has as many D1 posts as some large themes. It's making it hard to really keep up. The worst part is that, from looking through it, none of it is obnoxious spamposting. All of it is content, but it's making the game dense and hard to get into for me.

I have some town reads: mollie, Iecerint, copper, T-Bone, shos.

Everyone else is rather null-to-scum but all in one big grey goopy pile atm and I don't particularly see it getting any better.

This looks like scumlurking, in contrast to what T-bone was doing earlier. This is making excuses instead of trying to work with other townies despite being behind.

mollie have you made any attempt at all to

reach out

to me this game?

This is absolutely ridiculous seeing Reck has not even made one attempt at this himself.

Mine? It does not. It's themed about abusing lurkers who can't be assed to vote for themselves so clearly I can control it for them yada yada.

More ACTUAL substance coming soon (TM) (but for realzsies this time guyz)

Hey, where is the content? Cannot find it

Town:

pirate mollie My reasons on who are as previously stated. Mollie may be doing her "omg mollie goes paranoid on cabd" thing like she's done every game in the past with me but whatever. (Hey mollie we were town together once, but then you mislynched me to lose the game, remember that?)

Cephrir: Just Chandra things (tm) But yeah ceph is town and if ceph is scum really great job snowing me have a cookie and or an alcoholic beverage of your choice next time i'm in Baltimore?

copper223: I was leaning scum pretty heavily but his reaction to my scum read and subsequent posts are making me reverse course here.

Iecerint: Eh his open mind is something I associate with his town game. We'll see if that changes with a re-read, but as of right now he goes into town pile.

Meh?

notscience: I fully admit I am not currently having any luck trying my hand at reading notscience and will likely just sheep people from Town list above.

People whose posts I have been totally skipping or skimming and will get sorted up or down once I do my full reread

Rhinox
T-Bone
TierShift
shos

Scumpile-ish

Lady Lambdadelta: Fade for serious reasons, respected, prior content wasn't super town but not enough to go OMG SCUMPILE either.

Scumpile

xRECKONERx: "hey guys cabd role sounds like it could be scum i dunno, but hell it justifies my vote on it" Yeah, okay, no. If reck was like "omg guys cabd is the scummiest fucking scum ever" that wouldn't have been his reaction/statement. Such a halfhearted move on who he defines as his primary scum suspect AND has been voteparking? Nope.

Katsuki: Vague claim doesn't actually help things at this point because now that it's out in the open, if town it's gonna likely die if scum it's ezpz excuse. And I highly doubt it's the former.

This is throwing out a readslist just for the sake of it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: reck

If we're mislynching me and nothing I do is gonna stop that then so be it but for fuck's sake let me catch up and put my stamp on the game at first. I don't want another fucking bulbagame where I go to sleep and wake up quick mislynched.

xRECKONERx: "hey guys cabd role sounds like it could be scum i dunno, but hell it justifies my vote on it" Yeah, okay, no. If reck was like "omg guys cabd is the scummiest fucking scum ever" that wouldn't have been his reaction/statement. Such a halfhearted move on who he defines as his primary scum suspect AND has been voteparking? Nope.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This makes reck and cabd a very likely scumteam, coupled with cabd's scumread on reck which was not very logical. Cabd was probably going down and this definitely looks like last-minute distancing.

[TierShift]

Could you sum up your current reads, TS, in two sentences tops per read?

Did the flips make you reconsider?

Almost there, shos.

[TierShift]

Why does anyone think katsuki is town? Serious question.

i don't think anyone thinks katsuki is town and isn't named iecerint

I mean, kats is pretty hard to read in a vacuum IMO but in my meta on him scumkats is more involved, tries to actually get people lynched, is more manipulative, cares more, etc. And townkats lurks more, is less involved, goes with the flow, doesn't really make cases or what not especially early in games. Kats play looks more like townkats. I've even seen townkats selfvote on like day 3 rather than trying to get someone else lynched, and that fits with the whole "eff this I'm out" he was going with earlier. So in terms of his play this looks more like townkats to me. As for tone I already talked about how I expect the capsrage to come from scumkats moreso than townkats but Tammy told me kats has been doing that as town lately so... :shrug:

Its the same feeling I had last time I played with kats. You could tie me down and try to force me to explain what makes kats town and I can't really do it based on his play. But I think despite that, this looks like townkats. And I'm not too comfortable with a lot of the names on the kats wagon either.


Does anyone think Cabd is town? Tier what is sketchy about kat's shift onto Cabd? A player getting wagoned within a day or 2 of deadline shifting to the other viable wagon is not really something I find odd or out of place at all.

Gotta keep this in mind. Cabd and rhinox probably do not share alignment. If cabd is scum, rhinox is trying too hard to get a buddy lynched to be scum. If cabd is town, rhinox fits the profile of the scumplayer defending one mislynch strongly and pushing for the other.

I realise Iec has been doing the same but I think he is town so..

[TierShift]

I just realised there is a player called lady lambdadelta that has done absolutely nothing this game.

[TierShift]

All right, I think I'm caught up.

strong town

ceph
Iec

town

shos
NS- uhh this might be more null but I'm not putting this in scummy
mollie slot- ediie are you gonna do stuff today?
T-bone- I'm thinking this slot is on the right way, let's see where it goes.

scummy

Lady person
Rhino- town if cabd scum so maybe should be higher but I feel bad about his posts

lynch pls

reck
cabd

I really feel pretty good about cabd and reck being scum. I feel that both of them independently have a great chance of being scum and their interactions around cabd's readslist are telling.

VOTE: cabd
or reck whatever way this swings

[shos]

I can tell you that cabd, LLD, reck are all 150% useless lynchbait this game, imo, and I think they are all town, mayyyyyyyyybe cabd js scum. Only because of the kats flip, though.
The reason I townread LLD can be found somewhere, it is just one ubertownie post.
I honestly dlnt remember by now why reck is town.

[shos]

Also brb i need explanatin on ns town

[TierShift]

I feel I've given pretty good reasoning for why I think cabd and reck are scum, how about you respond to that instead of just disagreeing with me? Gonna search for that post.

[TierShift]

Also brb i need explanatin on ns town

my catchup is only 5 posts long, perhaps you can spot the reasons yourself!

[TierShift]

Also, reck is already framing ceph for when his buddy cabd flips scum.

[shos]

Your buttom line is that you wanr to lynch two lurkera indelendently
This i dont like

And hownthe hell os ns npt scummy i muatve missed it????

[TierShift]

It's probably this

This post is probably coming from town. If LLD is scum, and knows something about it that scum don't want town to know or something, then this will be telling if town finds out about this later. if not, then scum has no reason to stop me from doing this analysis, and distract town, and rob time and effort for funsies out of town.

Or, town won't find out about this later? I think the read is all pretty conditional.

What I do think is that the thing she said about the score feels somewhat townish, despite what I said earlier about people using it to frame you. That's because I do not understand why lurkscum would post only for this...
Eh I don't really know what to think

[shos]

Sorry i misses it im om phone during class lol

[TierShift]

Your buttom line is that you wanr to lynch two lurkera indelendently
This i dont like

HOW ABOUT YOU TALK ABOUT MY REASONING INSTEAD OF THIS SUPERFICIAL SHIT

And hownthe hell os ns npt scummy i muatve missed it????

and learn to write

[shos]

K im done but im hungry and out of battery so ill respond from comp later

[shos]

Alright so you say you believe NS is town for not omgusing me, basically? Thats how I see it, not a misrep.

If NS is town, that means you believe his claim to be hated-but-only-if-it-is-not-lylo?

[shos]

See page 26 for discussion of NS' claim.
Tell me if you think he is speaking the truth.

[TierShift]

Alright so you say you believe NS is town for not omgusing me, basically? Thats how I see it, not a misrep.

For being rational and showing a genuine representation of your stance on him.
And I don't care if his claim is true or not, honestly.

[Cephrir]

Katsuki not re-evaluating in the light of much better posts does him no favors and his team can ATE all it wants. 536 was a great post and his total lack of comment on it or any recent shos posts just reinforces my whole picture.

How do you feel about rhinox not evaluating either?

Hmm. That is how I feel about it.

Anyway if you are coming off shos scum take a look at Rhinox, I need a shower.

Marking this as lead for NK

Copper wasn't in the slot though.

VOTE: Reck

[Cephrir]

(I hate to admit it, because I really don't want this to be the case and it would make me quite sad, but T-bone's weird interaction with me today felt sort of town, even though I don't understand what fucking planet his logic is from)

[TierShift]

Copper wasn't in the slot though.

Yes he was

Though the lead is not worth anything seeing his later pushes