White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery dog can you talk a bit more about your Regfan scum read? Has gamma been the only teammate to give input there?

I'll grab my major problems posts out again. I'm not going to try and build a case on anything else.

I do agree, however, that it seems whoever scum reads CD earns a scum read back.

Hasn't everyone at some stage had a form of scumread on me? Most people usually do end up with one at some point or another. If I'm calling them out it's because they have a crap case and attacks making me scum, and aren't showing enough conviction to show me that they're truly reading me wrong. Apparently that's what I'm doing with other people to get some of the reads, but actual scum are much harder to find than me.

[Cheery Dog]

I forgot your second question as I was deciding whether to ignore ika's post or not. Hoopla's still practically non-existant, and Katsuki is meant to have been catching up on this after being lynched in his game. (I assume that isn't actually happening, but I've asked for updates).

Yeah okay, I'm voting scum. Shows up instantly after being suspected, comments pretty much only on things that revolve around suspicion directed towards his slot and then tries to cover Elks post as "Stop showing up" rather than a case of Elk having a very genuine conversation between team mates posted.

CES, there's cookies over here.

I thought this one had more on it to have the suspicion, but apparently I'm misremembering, which means my personal read isn't as high as I want to think it is.
Aeronaut had V/LA tags up here, and there is nothing overly scummy about just defending yourself when you first show up again to the thread. I orginially never desribed this as Aero proceeded to disappear until he came back to actually announce the V/LA to the thread and I did find the comment about Aero brushing off elk's post as the correct thing to point out there.

Still very confident on BBT (Singer told me she thinks she can read BBT after being a scum partner with him in a prior game and will get around to reading him here to confirm this later when she has time), Elk, Zach and Ika are town. Still lean towards Oversoul and CES being town. Significantly less sure about my Ank town read, think Llama dying over me means I probably have a read wrong and here's the only one I can think might be.

CD is still very very likely mafia and as much as it pains me to admit it I probably should have buried my ego and sheeped there D1.

Vote: Cheery Dog

Do need to get a better grip on Anti/Psyche - still think Anti's "wagon is meh" as a reason for not joining doesn't make an ounce of sense given that his scum reads were elsewhere and didn't like his explanation following it up, really need some updated reads from him with reasoning attached.

Psyche - What are your teams thoughts on this game at the moment and why did they think you should have jumped on due to the wagon-make-up?

Tammy and I agree on something!

You're both going to have to explain it for me, I'm not seeing it at all. Still find his comments in Post 49, Post 384 and Post 608 as town.

PEdit: Eh, that really does nothing for me Oversoul, I was also rushing it into night and fairly confident that we were hitting mafia, can very easily understand if CES was in the same boat as me especially since I thought the game was going to be as easy as going 1-2 (And maybe 3) and didn't want to waste time watching my town reads fight over stupid things, so why does that reasoning not lead you to having me as scum then?

I'm going to go back to Gamma's post about this one, because I don't think there's anything I didn't add about it last time on my own opinion. Playing with the thesaurus time!

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

[Ankamius]

This game is next on my list. Expect a post shortishly.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.14

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee
Aneninen (2) - Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
Cheery Dog (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks
Regfan (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen, Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

Moderator Comments

Antihero is V/LA until April 20.
Tammy is V/LA until April 20.
Equinox is V/LA until April 22.
Regfan is V/LA until April 22.
BlueBloodedToffee is V/LA until April 23.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally

But Regfantown would definitely feel that way. They're pretty obvious comments for him to make.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

Why would Regfanscum want a reason not to vote Aeronaut?

If you think Regfan is scum, doesn't Ankamius seem like a slamdunk scum buddy anyway? I very much doubt Regfanscum can afford to bus.

[Ankamius]

potato

how are you

meh been better. whats your read on zach and why?

eh. I can resonate with the scum-replace-out thing, but him focusing so much on that this game for why he's town makes me doubt how true it is.

I don't even need to claim tokens. I'm just going to outright say I'd have swapped out of a scum role by now.

I can say exactly the same thing (and it's provable). Would you say that's a strong argument for me being town?

Please prove it then.

Here's every scumgame I have on site:

1. Open 336: Scales of Justice -> I replace in day 1 and my partner gets lynched the same game day. I lurk my ass off and end up obvscumming myself day 3.
2. Newbie Game 1106 -> First game on site. I obvscum at the end of day 1 and get lynched. I will grant that my associations helped carry my partner through the rest of the game to a win, but that's probably more because people didn't expect someone in their first game to play like that.
3. Mini 1446 -> I'm just kind of around day 1 and get shot by the SK night 1.
4. Open 497: Tit for Tat -> We played okay for a while, but I couldn't adapt when the two slots I was trying to mislynch got confirmed town.
5. Open 530: Stack the Deck -> Shooting the traitor got the tracker lynched, but the roleblocker singled me out and caught me immediately.
6. Open 544: Tit for Tat -> I got caught day 1, but the primary person pushing me got lynched instead. Titus did more to keep me alive all game than I did. I was firmly in most people's scumlists for most of the game. This is the only scumgame on site where I lived to endgame.
7. Robin Williams Mafia -> I had a decentish start but crappy nightkills and super lurking ended up losing the game.
8. -> I lasted several day phases, but it didn't take too long for the scumreads to start flying my way. The only reason I lasted so long was because there were a lot of distractions early game. We won because one of the scum got conftowned and the other was taken for granted as town the whole game.
9. Open579: Pick your Power -> I basically obvscummed the slot before replacing out.
10. Kobold's Lair -> I don't really count this game as a win since the entire game was a lurkfest. I just never posted and eventually town just conceded.

She hasn't really said all that much about this game. She read at least up to page 12 and the only reads she gave was what I assume is a townread on Psyche and a definite scumread on Llamarble.

What did she say about those reads that you had to assume was her reads there?

I apparently forgot about the page 3 reads she had which was llamarble+CES as town, so that exists.

She said that one of Psyche's posts made her feel like she was a Psyche alt (#89).
She also said she changed her mind on Llamarble at some point and got a scumread on him.

[Ankamius]

Antihero I still want to know your read on Tammy. I'm assuming you're townreading ika?

[Aneninen]

So, catching-up starts.

Spoiler:

(1) What was that early Ika-wagon? Already 4 votes on Page2... Aeronaut, CheeryDog, Llamarble, BBT. Two of them are dead and flipped town... either there's at least one scum in the other two names or Ika is scum. Let's see what happened to this wagon next.

(2) Cogito Ergo Sum was trying to get my predecessor on the Cheery wagon and posted this in 44:

"I'd rather do some good ol'-fashioned RVSing first."

. These things don't add up. Also, this in 49:

"Respect my scumhunting process, please."

. Hmmm...

(3) Regfan's early posts remind me of the game where I met him. It seems to be the same Regfan. Trying to break the game. (Although I don't really understand the story about those tokens.)

(4) Was Aeronaut lynched because of posts like this: 55? It seems like a definition for fence-sitting.

(5) I don't know whether it is important or not but I know TheElkSpeaks from another site. There, as far as I can remember he was trying to break the game by setup spec. (Although my memories might be wrong and it was someone else...?) By the way he was the only one who asked the same thing I did here in 68. That gave me town-vibes. His Page5 posts (or around that) too.

(6) Strange... TTH had scumreads on Ika and Elk in 81. (A null and a may be town at that point.)

(7) BBT is just being BBT, eg. 84.

(8) I don't understand Ika at all.

(9) Nor the logic behind Oversoul's 120. (Including his explanation given in 134)

(10) Ankamius, 139 – a readlist in his second post, without explanations? Wow!

Sorry, I need to go now. I'll continue catching-up from Page7.

Keep in mind that I'm only on Page7 so I don't have solid reads yet. I post my readlist after I've finished catching-up. (And I still can't see the Team Topic.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(And I still can't see the Team Topic.)

Ask zoraster?

Are those notes meant for us, for you or for both?

[Antihero]

back , what did i miss?

[Antihero]

It's also worth noting that Sotty is about halfway through the game and hasn't seen anything that makes her think CES is anything other than town.

oh you've got to be fucking kidding me

[Antihero]

Antihero I still want to know your read on Tammy. I'm assuming you're townreading ika?

you assume correctly, and i'm townreading tammy. oversoul was a decent townread, i also very much doubt tammy would replace into a scum slot

[Antihero]

keep goin' w/ your catchup anen

/letting stuff sink in, will come back later

[Ankamius]

What's your read on RegFan?

[Ankamius]

He's the one player I want to sort out ASAP that's not already on my list.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up, next part.

Spoiler:

(1) Cogito Ergo Sum's 151 and nearby posts from others. The whole token speculation seems to be a WIFOM avalanche for me. (Anyone: correct me if I'm wrong.)

However, what if CheeryDog posted that 1 token for scum part to see who would jump on him because of that?

Shyt, that would be just another WIFOM.

(2) Ika 162/CheeryDog 163 – I don't know whether it's significant but this discussion was weird.

(3) Oversoul's 189 – was that a Beetlejuice? And a naked vote for Elk in 199... BBT seemed to have noticed the same thing in 207.

(4) Why did Zach vote for Elk in 190, I wonder. (As for TTH's 193:

"I was mostly referring to elk's white knighting of the ika wagon"

– wasn't he FoS-ing that wagon?)

(5) 208, 220 and nearby from Llamar – I'd call them speculative but he got Nightkilled. Maybe I should ISO him later (after catching up), he might have posted something important. (?)

(6) As for the TTH/Antihero change. I happen to know those players. I know it prooves nothing but if they wanted to get TTH out of a scum slot, why didn't they send Sthar here?

(7) Ankamius, 238 – I forgot that he's in the game and that's not a good sign. Scumreading Llamar? A Llamar vote from CheeryDog, in 251. And Ankamius follows... 255. (Although I think he scumread him before.) And one from BBT in 284... CheeryDog jumped off in 294...

________

Stopped at Page13.

Also, I have the Team Topic access now, thanks Zoraster!
However, I've only looked into it, so far it doesn't seem that they have a detailed opinion about this game. Although, I only checked a couple of posts so I may have missed info there.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

However, I've only looked into it, so far it doesn't seem that they have a detailed opinion about this game. Although, I only checked a couple of posts so I may have missed info there.

It doesn't have to be detailed. I'm interested in anything at all they said.

[Tammy]

I know I said I'd finish up reading some Isos today and give thoughts on more people, but I had a super long day and now have a fever and a terrible sore throat . I'm going to try to read through stuff until I fall asleep, but I imagine that will be really soon.

I'lol have some free time tomorrow though.

[Cheery Dog]

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally

But Regfantown would definitely feel that way. They're pretty obvious comments for him to make.

Which goes with you encouraging him to

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

Why would Regfanscum want a reason not to vote Aeronaut?

If you think Regfan is scum, doesn't Ankamius seem like a slamdunk scum buddy anyway? I very much doubt Regfanscum can afford to bus.

I think it might be something to with not wanting to vote elk, I'll bug gamma to redefine that one.

Nope. I'm tending to actually townread Ank.
and since he has now posted his "proof", and it wasn't trying to be a trust tell like I suspected when I asked for it, I think that's still more reason to have him as town.

However since you're trying to move me off my vote to someone that 'could' be a buddy, it's just what?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CES

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I think it might be something to with not wanting to vote elk, I'll bug gamma to redefine that one.

He was using it as a reason against Aeronautscum, not elk. If he wanted to avoid voting elk, wouldn't he have listened to 'marble and me repeatedly trying to explain an elk towntell to him?

Nope. I'm tending to actually townread Ank.
and since he has now posted his "proof", and it wasn't trying to be a trust tell like I suspected when I asked for it, I think that's still more reason to have him as town.

However since you're trying to move me off my vote to someone that 'could' be a buddy, it's just what?

I do obviously think an Ankvote would be the better play for if you're town, but I was mostly just probing your view of the game and your conception of Regfanscum. What do you think Regfanscum is actually doing?

This, by the bye, BluebloodedToffee, is what actual opportunism looks like.

[Cheery Dog]

It was apparently referring to this post.

Also worth stating that my team thinks that Aeroaut fits "Wallflower scum" in that his posts his posts really just leave him in the background but don't think he makes sense with Elk as scum since don't think he'd buss D1 in this setup and more confident on Elk being scum here, want to know what you think of the two of them individually / as potential partners at the moment cause that's kind of messing up our reads a little right now.

With more information about Regfan having brought up wallflowers and then bussing that early in the game. The thing about trying to do associate tells is overkill there.
It by itself isn't much to go on, but it's mostly fake content as that type of reads just doesn't get there accurately that early in the game.

[Cheery Dog]

Katsuki is meant to have been catching up on this after being lynched in his game. (I assume that isn't actually happening, but I've asked for updates).

Some parts of it got read. Kats would like to know why you asked if others than Gamma would giving me input, and why you think that might have been the case.

Also what CES's case on me actually is.

I do obviously think an Ankvote would be the better play for if you're town, but I was mostly just probing your view of the game and your conception of Regfanscum. What do you think Regfanscum is actually doing?

No, voting townreads is not a better play for me if I'm town. It's a better play for you as it might get a different townie lynched.

Regfan is doing what most scum do - trying to get read as town.

For example, his recent unvote of me about me being more genuine, and his teammates not thinking that's the case, that's an attempt to get on my good side after calling my post from teammates as in-genuine. His teammates reads giving the opposite opinion is making the read of me straddle the fence, and he could come back if other people were joining my wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, that vote isn't great by any means.

CD, can you just go over why you're voting CES for me? I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting your vote but it sounds like you're voting CES because you think he is a buddy of Regfan?

I want to wait for Anen to finish catching up before this Day ends.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Regfan is doing what most scum do - trying to get read as town.

For example, his recent unvote of me about me being more genuine, and his teammates not thinking that's the case, that's an attempt to get on my good side after calling my post from teammates as in-genuine. His teammates reads giving the opposite opinion is making the read of me straddle the fence, and he could come back if other people were joining my wagon.

This is actually a really good point and something I haven't really paid a lot of attention to (mostly due to thinking Reg was obvtown for most of the game)

If you look at a lot of Regfan's posts, his team differ with him on a lot of opinions/reads. This allows him to reverse his reads quite quickly if he wants to because 'he's following his team.' What do you make of this CES?

Hmm. Regfan and CES make so much sense as well.

[Cheery Dog]

That's pretty much it, and the fact he tried to direct me off regfan to someone in his own scumlist told me it was likely enough that I could join the larger wagon.