We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

ChriVi · Post Post #5975 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:17 pm

↑ Oranje Crush wrote:
@MOD: If most players agree and all actions are in is it possible to end the night early?

Once all night actions are submitted OR the deadline is reached, night ends.

Or at least, that's how 99% of mods do it.

Toon Fighter · Post Post #5976 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:56 pm

The night is only 24 hours in this game. I don't know how much shorter you want it.

Titus, we are town. As has been explained more than once, there isn't even a way for us to be scum consistent with your setup specs. Look elsewhere, k?

Plotinus · Post Post #5977 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:57 am

Titus, when you do your VCA, can you explain things like "____ is likely to be ____-aligned based on VCA because _____" it doesn't have to be a long reason but it would help me follow along.

Oranje Crush · Post Post #5978 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:39 am

I want everyone on the p5 wagon to explain why they voted for him, actually.

Plotinus · Post Post #5979 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:50 am

His was one of the ISOs I'd read in depth because it was so short. It was 90% prodge. Almost every post from him was on the topic "I'll post some thoughts later". Every now and then he did post a thought or two but it was few and far between. He was in the game from the first day, but his first opinion was given in 1088. He votes in 1217 but doesn't say why. He has another opinion/vote in 3340. I think he's summarising what was going on because he was playing catchup but I didn't really understand the summary. He has a few more opinions after that + some naked votes. A total of 26 posts in all this time. He seemed a little bit of interested in the 3000s but even some of the opinions felt like prodges to me. It's hard because I wasn't there at the time, can't see what he was responding to and his posts didn't make it easy to follow along.

also you were right about vonflare.

Titus · Post Post #5980 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:53 am

↑ Toon Fighter wrote:The night is only 24 hours in this game. I don't know how much shorter you want it.

Titus, we are town. As has been explained more than once, there isn't even a way for us to be scum consistent with your setup specs. Look elsewhere, k?

I will look where my analysis tells me.

Titus · Post Post #5981 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:54 am

↑ Plotinus wrote:Titus, when you do your VCA, can you explain things like "____ is likely to be ____-aligned based on VCA because _____" it doesn't have to be a long reason but it would help me follow along.

I always do.

Drixx · Post Post #5982 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:14 am

Actuallly Death, my BP is permanent. A werewolf can never kill me. Also, I suspect that Elusive's "Vengeful" claim and re-assertion after she admitted to being SK/Werewolf was an attempt to stop us realizing there was a 2nd Werewolf.

And yeah... Death pretty much dropped the odds of TPTG/TF being scum down to like 0.1% ... his premises look sound and the conclusion that they are town almost, but not quite, HAS to follow from them.

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #5983 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:40 am

There's also the fact that the presence of multiple scum factions would reduce our likelihood of fakeclaiming masons as scum to some number just south of 0%

even if we didn't have to worry about our scumteam killing us, there's at least one more to worry about. no fucking way do we make that fakeclaim.

Narninian · Post Post #5984 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:49 am

↑ Oranje Crush wrote:I want everyone on the p5 wagon to explain why they voted for him, actually.

I've voted him for lurking mostly, but also we were running out of possible scum targets to lynch.

Plotinus · Post Post #5985 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:10 am

Mod, do the scum have to live with whatever fakeclaim you provide for them or will you give them any claim they want?

If you can choose your own fakeclaim, then I'm more likely to believe that you wouldn't choose masons as a fakeclaim. If you cannot, then masons might be the fakeclaim you're stuck with and your arguments about what you would or wouldn't choose are null.

Titus is either right or wrong about the masons but I don't know what that means. In my completed newbie game, the town cop and a vanilla townie spent what seemed like the whole game tunnelling each other and they were both 100% sure that the other was scum and it cost us the game. We lynched the cop first and then lynched that townie in LYLO and that was it. Before that happened I thought if there was situation where only one person could be right and everybody was really sure that at least one of the two were scum, then it must be so, one must be right and the other must be wrong. Instead, both were wrong and it cost us the game. This game is a lot more complicated than that one, but I'm less inclined to believe people that are mutually convinced the other is scum now because they could just both be wrong.

so these are the things that i think are possible:

a) Titus is town and is misguided about the masons, something will happen to confirm the masons as town to everybody instead of just each other, possibly even titus's own VCA

b) Titus is town and is right about the masons, something will happen to confirm this, such as one of the masons getting killed which confscums the other, then we'll go back to titus's VCA after learning she was right about the masons and look for what else she was right about.

c) Titus is scum and is not picking on the low hanging fruit but is going against the masons which I find surprising but possible. One of the masons will be killed confirming the other and then they can do the mutual doc thing with chivri and titus will be lynched. town win yay.

d) For completion it could be titus and masons as scum but i don't believe that.

I'm inclined to believe the masons are masons but the mutually doc thing seems like one of the things that the mods would have corrected for when they said they checked only for obvious breakage. i can understand the mutually doc thing, therefore it must be obvious, and it does break the game in favour of town unless the nuke from orbit delayed kill gets around the doctors.

Titus obviously thinks option b is right, the masons seem to think option c is right. I think it is probably one of [a,b,c]. I like a and c best because in my newbie game a was right and we were sure it was b or c.

The annoying thing about being a newbie is that I'm probably misguided about some of this but at least I've explained why I think the things that I think so if I'm going wrong somewhere maybe it'll be obvious to everybody else and I can be corrected.

Toon Fighter · Post Post #5986 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:14 am

For the record, I think Titus is dumb!town, not scum, but her insistence is really getting on my nerves

Drixx · Post Post #5987 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:16 am

Why do people keep asking the mods to give them information which might (even in the slightest way) reveal things like

people's alignment

? That's just asinine.

If I ever got assigned as scum in a game where I was given a fake claim and told I was required to use it and couldn't just roll with whatever I wanted, I'd replace out before confirming in. Fake claims are generally something mods do to give scum a claim which will match the theme of a game and thus not get them caught if some sort of theme claim happens.

For example, I made a Dark Tower themed game and my scum had fake claims of characters who existed and were plausibly good in the story. I also made the mistake of answering questions as the mod of that game which I didn't realize would give info that I shouldn't be giving, and took a mad beating for it.

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #5988 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:18 am

again, us being scum means that we live in a universe where three experienced and skilled players in a hydra drew scum in a multiball game and thought it would be a good plan to claim masons with our partner on Day 1 and to just try to avoid crosskilling for the remainder of the game. like, what the actual fuck.

Drixx wrote:Why do people keep asking the mods to give them information which might (even in the slightest way) reveal things like
people's alignment
? That's just asinine.

I've blacklisted players for this before

Drixx · Post Post #5989 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:20 am

Oh... my favorite moonlogic theory from twilight so far has been a suggestion of Titus and I as scum having a fight all game long. That would totally be the sort of thing I might try to amuse myself, except the net result of that would be people killing me whenever they happened to be in a game with me again. As town I'd be lynched on principle. As scum I'd be lynched on principle. It would not have long term upside.

If I ever decide to quit mafia I'll have to remember that suggestion and try that out as a strategy. I imagine it would be incredibly amusing, especially if I had daychat and could co-ordinate and derive maximum amusement over it.

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #5990 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:20 am

↑ Drixx wrote:Oh... my favorite moonlogic theory from twilight so far has been a suggestion of Titus and I as scum having a fight all game long. That would totally be the sort of thing I might try to amuse myself, except the net result of that would be people killing me whenever they happened to be in a game with me again. As town I'd be lynched on principle. As scum I'd be lynched on principle. It would not have long term upside.

If I ever decide to quit mafia I'll have to remember that suggestion and try that out as a strategy. I imagine it would be incredibly amusing, especially if I had daychat and could co-ordinate and derive maximum amusement over it.

bro, I've won scum games that way. it's a reasonable strategy if you know what you're doing.

Drixx · Post Post #5991 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:23 am

I just have the feeling that if I did it, I would totally enjoy it WAY too much, and nobody would EVER trust me again. I'm sneaky and clever as scum, but I always keep in mind that I am going to play 3-4 games as town for every game as scum. No need to make people consider me a PL because of the crap I pull as scum, ya know?

God of Power Outlets · Post Post #5992 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:25 am

I have yet to be considered a policy lynch and I openly troll in every game I play

but maybe I get away with it because join date/colored name

Narninian · Post Post #5993 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:36 am

↑ Drixx wrote:Oh... my favorite moonlogic theory from twilight so far has been a suggestion of Titus and I as scum having a fight all game long. That would totally be the sort of thing I might try to amuse myself, except the net result of that would be people killing me whenever they happened to be in a game with me again. As town I'd be lynched on principle. As scum I'd be lynched on principle. It would not have long term upside.

If I ever decide to quit mafia I'll have to remember that suggestion and try that out as a strategy. I imagine it would be incredibly amusing, especially if I had daychat and could co-ordinate and derive maximum amusement over it.

I've done that as scum,its very successful.
I think its a classic scum tactic.

Titus · Post Post #5994 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:55 am

@Plotinus, Scum can always craft their own fakeclaim, even if the mod doesn't give them one.

Also, you're reading me backwards. Despite my confidence on TPTG scum based on behavior, if the VCA eventually winds up clearing them, trust THAT first. I'm much better with VCA than behavior.

Titus · Post Post #5995 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:58 am

@Drixx/TPTG, You know generally people like me as scum. I let town run around and kill itself while letting them enjoy the sounds of their own wrong voices. If I'm repeatedly, consistently saying someone is scum and they aren't dead, it's a pretty obvious indicator I'm town if I'm making cases.

I have never, ever pulled off a drama bus. The closest I came to a long term tunnel bus is a game where I just begged people to lynch my buddy for reasons. The SK and Vig shot us both in the same night though. *cries*

Drixx · Post Post #5996 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:08 am

And Titus is just letting the clock run out on this twilight. If Titus is town, scum won't want that VCA she's so famous for to show up, ergo she shouldn't survive the night. She's so confident she will be around toMorrow to post the VCA. This makes no sense to me.

Titus, why on earth would you not post the VCA now in this twilight to ensure we get it? What makes you think you're going to be alive tomorrow?

Plotinus · Post Post #5997 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:14 am

If i knew questions like that weren't ok I wouldn't have asked it. I'm still not entirely sure how it's different from other questions that I have seen people ask mods, but I accept the correction and will think about this some more.

mod, you don't have to answer my previous question if you don't want to or if you feel it gives us an unfair advantage.

@Titus and ToonFighter: I am now feeling more at ease about both sides in this argument, thank you.

@Drixx: oh, ok. So my earlier thought process would have made more sense if this was based on some canon. In addition to my one completed newbie game, I have one completed off site game and there scum were given one character as a fake claim and if they tried to make one up on their own they could have risked a name collision. The town managed to win despite nobody having ever heard of the concept of safeclaims before so we took all claims at face value and most of us kept forgetting that people had the option of lying.

Cuttlefish · Post Post #5998 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:30 am

It is now night five. Night ends in (expired on 2015-04-21 13:30:15). Please submit your night actions before then.

Cuttlefish · Post Post #5999 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:00 am

↑ Plotinus wrote:
Mod, do the scum have to live with whatever fakeclaim you provide for them or will you give them any claim they want?

As a rule I provide fakeclaims on demand. This information was already public to anyone who has read a game I've modded in the past.

↑ Oranje Crush wrote:
@MOD: If most players agree and all actions are in is it possible to end the night early?

No.