Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Aronis]

Pagetop.

[fferyllt]

Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.

How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.

How about a flash aronis wagon?

Everyone wants this dead.

VOTE: aronis

this is not a bad vote, but dividing votes amongst aronis and tso probably isn't a good idea given the current size of the three wagons that need to fade into oblivion.

[ActionDan]

To made them fade you'll have to convince people to leave them.

Even myself. I will in the meantime look at Tso.

Breifly reading Oversouls iso, a gut acum read on espe turns into a hated wagon. Why?

[fferyllt]

]TSO's iso is plenty convincing.

- We pretty much loved AD's reaction to our push
- We've shouted ourselves hoarse about Singer
- espe still bothers me some, but we have become way less certain about scumreading him after going back through his interactions with tammy.

[Titus]

Ffery and Mastina agree on TSO.

VOTE: TSO

Seriously, this should take off.

[ActionDan]

Cab we get back to the espe wagon? It's the only wagon I kinda like right now and this game is fucking dragging. We need to do two lynches in 5 days and we don't even have wagons.

How about we compromise? You vote AD and we lynch him, then immediately after that we can lynch esp.

Is there a better reason than pure numbers to demand a compromise via voting me when you have no particular lynch perference and could instead vote espe?

Nope.

While I appreciate the honesty this is not a good reason for the demand from someone who actually has a perference.

[Titus]

AD, Vote TSO with me.

[ActionDan]

I will have to read and evaluate and then get back to you on that.

[Aronis]

I'm not voting TSO.

[fferyllt]

I'm not voting TSO.

Of course you aren't! It's a little early for bussing and who knows, maybe the wagon won't go anywhere!

[Gammagooey]

ffery I don't really see a big reason to think TSO will flip scum but if you're really confident in it I can hop on anyway. Did go through his iso and I still do like his posting around march 31st but it's not impossible to be coming from scum looking back at it.

[God of Power Outlets]

vote TSO

wheeeeeeeeeee!

[Titus]

^^ Totally wrong account.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote TSO

wheeeeeeeeeee!

wheeeeeeeee!

[Gammagooey]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

[fferyllt]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

Mostly i just wanted to know your thoughts about that discussion.

[Aronis]

I'm not voting TSO.

Of course you aren't! It's a little early for bussing and who knows, maybe the wagon won't go anywhere!

My thoughts exactly.

[Gammagooey]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

Mostly i just wanted to know your thoughts about that discussion.

no seriously my memory is actually a pile of garbage on top of another larger pile of garbage

what discussion

[singersigner]

Ok, I've read up and really I just want a lynch. I still want to vote for AD because I can't think of anyone better to vote for and I don't want to be scrabbling around trying to find a lynch and have it end up being I'd much rather not lynch such as Singer/Espe. I also still don't really see much that's town about him, though I guess my hurried catch-up could have something to do with that and I'll look again. In any case, I wouldn't mind if, you know, we could get that wagon fired up again. I'm really sorry about my lack of involvement lately and I think I'll sort the reads out that I've been putting off after the first lynch (though at the rate things are going it may very well be before).

Ffery, if I could have Nacho's read progression on AD that would be pretty cool, but I understand you guys are busy and so please make this low priority if anything at all.

Why are you asking FFery to do something and then saying it doesn't matter if she does it?

Wow, you twisted the fuck out of his words!

Regfan

You are breaking our hearts with this tammy fixation.

Not sure whether it'll make the heartbreak better or worse, but it'll be different when you see that he wasn't doing it with a town mindset! (Regfan is singer's team, no?)

If you're scum I'll understand (hint: we think you're pretty scum!)

If you're town, it's gunna give me such sweet satisfaction to prove how wrong you are.

Either way, I call it a win.

Mastina is not scum. Why does everyone who doubts you wind up in your scumlist?

If you are town and lynched, how can you consider that a win? Doubly so with a team backing you?

The only people who actively suspect/cast doubt on me that "wound up on my scumlist" ( ) are Shadoweh and Mastin. You I'm trying to parse out but my team seriously doesn't like what you're spitting out right now, especially recently. Bulb I already said was scum before interacting with him or him even turning his attention to my slot again, so it seems pretty shady that you're trying to throw him into this magical read that changed once he voted me or something. And Gamma, who's been one of the biggest proprietors of my wagon/lynch so far, I've already stated I think is town, so again...where exactly is your head with that statement?

As for calling it a win even if Mastin's town...you assume I need to be lynched to prove it? I was literally just stating something in retrospect once the game's over and everything's confirmed. Wholey fuck, how did you read so much into that?!?

@Oversoul...you can "nip it in the butt" all you want, but you haven't really addressed our concerns. I never said I thought you were scum; I just wanted answers to questions that cast any doubt on our townread of your slot. I also went into a two-ish page conversation with Gamma about my read on him, so...did you just miss it, or is he so special that you want to know how I feel about only him in particular?

[fferyllt]

gamma, talk to me some more about the lack of empathy thing please.

oh also i meant to do this but didn't remember exactly what you're talking about here?

Mostly i just wanted to know your thoughts about that discussion.

no seriously my memory is actually a pile of garbage on top of another larger pile of garbage

what discussion

1317 - CDB's point about lack of empire's empathy.

Nacho feels like scum-CDB would be unlikely to take that line of argument with Empire. Scum-CDB isn't usually emotionally manipulative, so we feel like that's genuine. he wouldn't respond so harshly to Empire's comment if he were scum, because he's well aware that he often looks less engaged as scum than as town.

In other words, we think it's really unlikely that scum-CDB would call Empire scum for lack of empathy and continue to push it the way he did.

[singersigner]

To be fair, CDB just had a fucking amazing scum game with Reck's Retro Rehash where he was perfectly engaged, and even lashed out at me for implying he was town because he was actually active...

[fferyllt]

To be fair, CDB just had a fucking amazing scum game with Reck's Retro Rehash where he was perfectly engaged, and even lashed out at me for implying he was town because he was actually active...

this kind of misses the point.

CDB is not nearly so engaged here, and in fact was called out for not being all over not just this game but his team's other games like he was in an earlier team mafia game. he got pissy about being scumread for it and scumread the player for lack of empathy.

- scum-CDB lashed out at you for implying his activity made him town (this is good scum play)

- scum-CDB lashes out at Empire for scumreading him for low activity? (this is bad scum play)

[Gammagooey]

1317 - CDB's point about lack of empire's empathy.

Nacho feels like scum-CDB would be unlikely to take that line of argument with Empire. Scum-CDB isn't usually emotionally manipulative, so we feel like that's genuine. he wouldn't respond so harshly to Empire's comment if he were scum, because he's well aware that he often looks less engaged as scum than as town.

In other words, we think it's really unlikely that scum-CDB would call Empire scum for lack of empathy and continue to push it the way he did.

Took another look

My immediate reaction was 'this looks like scum bussing another scum really well' but that's not really substantiated, just a gut feeling based a lot on how I personally think and play as scum- when i do bus, trying to bring out actually exactly why/what makes my scumbuddies play different from how I see them as town and slamming into anything that I think just doesn't make sense from their mindset so it'll look like (and for the most part actually be) legitimate scumhunting.

In fairness though, it does look at least a bit town given that it looks fairly measured and doesn't seem like he's overemphasizing how ridiculous Empire's being, instead just explaining why he thinks that doesn't really make sense from him.

Reading the post mainly just made me want to lynch singer more but your points are still good enough on empire for me to not worry about it for now.

---------
gonna do this since his popping in and mentioning regfan's reads while not trying to push AD's lynch or explain why he isn't putting stock into regfan's AD read does seem actually pretty bad.

VOTE: TSO

[singersigner]

I'd have to read it in context which I don't really feel like doing, but as CDB hasn't made an impression on me so far, I'd like to hear more from him in general, particularly with regards to people we've both played with before (AD, UT, Gamma...).

Speaking of which, Bulb and TTH are both in prod range? This isn't promising for getting a second lynch in time...

My team is fine with compromising on Shadoweh for now since we can do something about her later.

vote: T S O

Preview Edit...

[singersigner]

Oh wow, ok, I just wanted to check the votecount first but apparently there are still only like three votes on him?

vote: T S O