Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Cheetory6]

Like, I'll trust you if you disagree with what I'm worried about here and focus on other things, but I'm having a hard time getting past this nasty gut feeling that Titus is not playing on the level and I don't really have anyone to talk with about it because my team isn't read this game at all anymore q.q

[Titus]

It likely does center on the bad assumption I am scum though.

*twitch*

P-Edit: But are you not at all worried that she might be tryhardscum going hardcore for breaking her usual scum-meta tells/avoiding her typical stubborn towntells to avoid getting lynched? Because I really really really get the impression that the lack of argumentativeness is coming from a place of "I want to see active but I don't want to piss anyone off and get lynched" rather than what she's pushing as "I want to work with people".

So I get into a bitch fight with you, disagree with Mastina's reads, fight with Espeonage, anger FFery to the point where she's yelling at me, because... I don't want to piss anyone off. Back up.

I am a try hard as any alignment. So you do get points there.

I do want to piss people off less and actually be great town and solve the game. I'm actually failing miserably and my team has told me that in no uncertain terms.

[Titus]

Like, I'll trust you if you disagree with what I'm worried about here and focus on other things, but I'm having a hard time getting past this nasty gut feeling that Titus is not playing on the level and I don't really have anyone to talk with about it because my team isn't read this game at all anymore q.q

When the game you're modding ends, I'll walk you through the difference between my scum game and town game using examples you'll be familiar with.

[Cheetory6]

Don't pretend you don't know what I'm wary of you for.
You know the whole Bulba thing is bothering me a lot and is consistent with a lack of what I'm expecting from your towngame comparatively.

[fferyllt]

FFery,

Do you look at what's possible and work backwards or do you look at what's likely and make assumptions based off that?

I have a wiki page about how I approach scumhunting/townhunting.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... TermsOfArt

The short answer is this:

alignment + role + long term goals (not tied to one game) --> motivation --> in-thread behavior

What I see is the behavior. It's a reverse engineering task to get from there to alignment.

there are other aspects of the game - the setup, the way wagons form and fade, mod meta, player meta, and how real life is impacting their play, etc. For me, though, the meat and potatoes of the game are summed up by that algorithm.

[Espeonage]

theyyyy're kinda similar i guess

in Baker it felt more like extreme paranoia and a little tunnelvision than the wariness and suspicion I'm seeing with you and Tammy here, but in Baker it was much much later in the game.

It felt liek the same feeling. Like not going to be in lylo tomorrow, but I think I'm getting in to a habit of putting more stock in to reads that go against the grain.

[Espeonage]

how do you feel about actiondan and tso and singer?

I've liked singer's posting. Seem to be driven to helping town recently. TSO I haven't read and AD is wonky. He's either wrong about stuff or scum.

[Titus]

Yes. I already mentioned waaaay back in minor day 1 that I was going to try to hold fast to my opinions but move the game forward. Baning Bulba does that. I get the fact I lost the argument on Bulba being town at that point. We needed a Bane to get a boon. Bulba was the only bane getting through.

It would have been fucking easy to say, gee I'm stubborn and just let us bicker and chase our tails and not get a bane or a boon.

That's not happening.

You've stated that. You're also stating things that are off from my town game, but the game you've referenced, I was confirmed scum (your game and Butcher).

[fferyllt]

how do you feel about actiondan and tso and singer?

I've liked singer's posting. Seem to be driven to helping town recently. TSO I haven't read and AD is wonky. He's either wrong about stuff or scum.

wrong about what stuff?

[Titus]

FFery,

Do you look at what's possible and work backwards or do you look at what's likely and make assumptions based off that?

I have a wiki page about how I approach scumhunting/townhunting.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... TermsOfArt

The short answer is this:

alignment + role + long term goals (not tied to one game) --> motivation --> in-thread behavior

What I see is the behavior. It's a reverse engineering task to get from there to alignment.

there are other aspects of the game - the setup, the way wagons form and fade, mod meta, player meta, and how real life is impacting their play, etc. For me, though, the meat and potatoes of the game are summed up by that algorithm.

You see, I approach the game exactly backwards.

Find the box of what is possible first using the setup, votes etc. Then I look at role consistency. Then I look at motivation. Then I look at behavior (which meta is a part).

That deduction is how I work.

That deduction is also how you detect my alignment.

[Cheetory6]

Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.

[Espeonage]

Reads. I'd have to go back and look for specifics, but when I was skimming I put him down in a can ignore pile.

[Cheetory6]

He's either wrong or scum but you put him in the ignore pile?

[Espeonage]

Where else would I put him?

[fferyllt]

FFery,

Do you look at what's possible and work backwards or do you look at what's likely and make assumptions based off that?

I have a wiki page about how I approach scumhunting/townhunting.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... TermsOfArt

The short answer is this:

alignment + role + long term goals (not tied to one game) --> motivation --> in-thread behavior

What I see is the behavior. It's a reverse engineering task to get from there to alignment.

there are other aspects of the game - the setup, the way wagons form and fade, mod meta, player meta, and how real life is impacting their play, etc. For me, though, the meat and potatoes of the game are summed up by that algorithm.

You see, I approach the game exactly backwards.

Find the box of what is possible first using the setup, votes etc. Then I look at role consistency. Then I look at motivation. Then I look at behavior (which meta is a part).

That deduction is how I work.

That deduction is also how you detect my alignment.

none of that stuff exists in useful quantity until late game. I die night 1 or 2 with distressing frequency. hence my approach - try to maximize my usefulness in the early game.

[Titus]

Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.

Yeah, and during survivor I also had uncouth. I had a lot of yelling and a lot of getting ignored. A lot of not getting my scumreads lynched and having to fight tooth and nail to save my townreads. Rather than turning Bulba into a mini Egg situation, I said fuck it Bane him. I lost the argument on a Bane, at least I can get shown right that Bulba's town.

Don't you find it funny that there hasn't been much of any push on Bulba after he was baned? Everyone was saying Bulba was scum, but now that he's baned, literally no one's pushing Bulba scum. It's not like his play's changed at all..

[Cheetory6]

@Espe, meh. I guess it just kind of strikes me that it'd be easier to try and sort wrong vs scum by probing into that, so it looked a little weird that you'd be like "ignore that shiet" when he's one of the main wagons.

[Titus]

FFery,

Do you look at what's possible and work backwards or do you look at what's likely and make assumptions based off that?

I have a wiki page about how I approach scumhunting/townhunting.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... TermsOfArt

The short answer is this:

alignment + role + long term goals (not tied to one game) --> motivation --> in-thread behavior

What I see is the behavior. It's a reverse engineering task to get from there to alignment.

there are other aspects of the game - the setup, the way wagons form and fade, mod meta, player meta, and how real life is impacting their play, etc. For me, though, the meat and potatoes of the game are summed up by that algorithm.

You see, I approach the game exactly backwards.

Find the box of what is possible first using the setup, votes etc. Then I look at role consistency. Then I look at motivation. Then I look at behavior (which meta is a part).

That deduction is how I work.

That deduction is also how you detect my alignment.

none of that stuff exists in useful quantity until late game. I die night 1 or 2 with distressing frequency. hence my approach - try to maximize my usefulness in the early game.

I agree. That's why I suck at the early game and I'm trying to work on it and defer in the early game.

My behavior based reads, let's just say it, suck.

Invariably, I can narrow scum to a pool in my VCA and I always pick wrong. Survivor, didn't pick DGB as scum. Uncouth, picked AP over UT as scum. It happens.

[fferyllt]

Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.

Yeah, and during survivor I also had uncouth. I had a lot of yelling and a lot of getting ignored. A lot of not getting my scumreads lynched and having to fight tooth and nail to save my townreads. Rather than turning Bulba into a mini Egg situation, I said fuck it Bane him. I lost the argument on a Bane, at least I can get shown right that Bulba's town.

Don't you find it funny that there hasn't been much of any push on Bulba after he was baned? Everyone was saying Bulba was scum, but now that he's baned, literally no one's pushing Bulba scum. It's not like his play's changed at all..

And your approach in that game was a big part of why you alienated players (like me) who otherwise would have worked more with you.

And let's not forget your efforts to get AP lynched and to save scum-Brantz.

Your chosen path wasn't the only way to win that game, and I'd argue it wouldn't have come to lylo if you'd listened to me about AP.

[Untrod Tripod]

holy shit they're still posting

[Titus]

Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.

Yeah, and during survivor I also had uncouth. I had a lot of yelling and a lot of getting ignored. A lot of not getting my scumreads lynched and having to fight tooth and nail to save my townreads. Rather than turning Bulba into a mini Egg situation, I said fuck it Bane him. I lost the argument on a Bane, at least I can get shown right that Bulba's town.

Don't you find it funny that there hasn't been much of any push on Bulba after he was baned? Everyone was saying Bulba was scum, but now that he's baned, literally no one's pushing Bulba scum. It's not like his play's changed at all..

And your approach in that game was a big part of why you alienated players (like me) who otherwise would have worked more with you.

And let's not forget your efforts to get AP lynched and to save scum-Brantz.

Your chosen path wasn't the only way to win that game, and I'd argue it wouldn't have come to lylo if you'd listened to me about AP.

Maybe. I did. I was wrong. I haven't quite figured out the right approach, but I've enlisted my team to watch for the emotional tells daily and try to tell me when I'm messing up.

Occasionally, I pick something up, but I don't work on that wavelength.

[Titus]

holy shit they're still posting

Yes. I'm actually learning something from this. So please don't scold me for that.

[Cheetory6]

I don't think it's especially odd given that now that he's been baned he's fodder for night actions.
I've personally been putting off doing the metadive on him because I've been distracted by main wagons/trying to use my energy to focus on heavier posters.
There's also a part of me which is hoping that night actions will make it so that I don't have to deal with sorting him because my end-of-interactions read on him was cautiously nullscum and more just confused despite having asked him a bunch of things things/gotten answers.

Whatever. I don't think this is going to go anywhere because I still don't honestly believe what you're saying in response to me and UT is being dum about people posting in a game of mafia so I'll just shut up and focus on reading while I still have some spare time before my last exam.

[Titus]

Well, good luck on your exam. I'll be here when you're ready to talk. Obviously, that's not now.

[singersigner]

Those sure are a lot of references I'm not getting!

Game I'm referencing here is Survivor.
I don't believe your stance on not defending Bulba against the bane. I really don't.
Like, the level of commitment you had to "I don't think we should bane" vs "I don't think we should bane my main townread" is just not on the same level and it just doesn't jive to me.
And nothing you've done in the last two hundred posts really pinged me as being all that town.

Yeah, and during survivor I also had uncouth. I had a lot of yelling and a lot of getting ignored. A lot of not getting my scumreads lynched and having to fight tooth and nail to save my townreads. Rather than turning Bulba into a mini Egg situation, I said fuck it Bane him. I lost the argument on a Bane, at least I can get shown right that Bulba's town.

Don't you find it funny that there hasn't been much of any push on Bulba after he was baned? Everyone was saying Bulba was scum, but now that he's baned, literally no one's pushing Bulba scum. It's not like his play's changed at all..

At least Gamma, if not a couple of others, stated they specifically wanted to Bane someone they weren't necessarily going to want lynched. This strategy has since not changed. I'm not really sure how I feel about it since I missed all of that discussion in real time and wasn't able to make my own choices mN1, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the person who has a target on their back wouldn't necessarily be a priority right now.