Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

This is just another random lynch that won't give much info if it's town. :/ TSO was v/la for a week, it's not weird that he dropped off, and I thought he was active and townie when he was posting. However since this seems to be Dan vs TSO I would rather vote TSO. I do not condone this. >:| He had best claim, we were suposed to have lynched by now. Setting the deadline later was stupid, we'd already had Fake Day 1 and we should have known we have special procrastination powers. I wish I had considered that sooner. At least we're learning when this presumably happens again tomorrow.

There's a reason I wanted deadline at mid point. *shrug* Longer day 1 worked better for confirmed town though and she's only got one day to do her thing. I can adapt to that for one day.

[Titus]

Oh you need to vote Shadoweh.

[Oversoul]

Like, no one on my team has actually called Gamma scum (except mildly from Mina but shhh), and the only reads list I actually provided put him definitively in the "don't know" pile which I then added a caveat to on my own saying that I only mildly agreed with the "don't know" because I had already very definitively stated I believed Gamma to be town, both at the beginning of my ISO and after our back and forth about his read on me.

I even skimmed my own ISO, to the best of my skimming abilities (gave it a good 30 seconds), just to see if anything stood out to me from your perspective (or what I imagine it would be), and came to that conclusion. Again, I can't figure out how exactly you got "team scum read that you might be disagreeing with at this point" and am totally baffled at what to do right now.

Please explain exactly how you came about this conclusion.

Sure. Part of how I like playing is to get specific reads from specific players, especially if I think that there could be some scum buddy interactions between those two players. As a way to try and get back into the game, I wanted a town read (you) help with reading someone who I can't really read at all (Gamma). I chose you specifically because I remember reading from when Tammy was in the game that Westeros had it out for Gamma. At the time when I read that, I thought the read was very odd since Gamma wasn't doing anything near as scummy as the weird was strong. Also, I felt that you could read Gamma the best since you're probably one of the only people who has had real life interaction with him.

I haphazardly skimmed your iso until I found this from Regfan

@Ffery...Regfan would like me to remind you to clarify your town read on Titus.

He would also like me to pass along his reads list...I'm not really sure how to do that without actually C/Ping it, so...

Let's just say that these reads more or less go in descending order of towniness:

Vezok ***
DV ***
Cheer ***
[Gap]
TSO ***
Tammy ***
[Gap]
Aronis
Bulb
GIF *
Marquis *
Esp.

Titus *
Mastin
UT *
CDB ***
Gamma *

AD
[Gap]
TTH
Shadoweh ***

[Gap] = a significant difference between the strength of those reads
bolded = conflicted/null reads of no particular order
* = how strongly I personally agree with both the read and the placement of the read

I thought this list was saying that Reg at least thinks Gamma is scummy. Is this not saying Gamma is fairly scummy? Maybe I am misinterpreting this list but this looks to me that Reg was at least considering Gamma to be the fourth most scummy person in the game at this time.

I think Crtl F'd the word Gamma in your iso and came up with several hits. The first of which was this gem...

With regards to Gamma...you're gunna have to be more specific at this point. Vezok was relevant with regards to the game state and information I'm working with, and as far as I can tell...Gamma sure is...a player...

You replied to Bulba asking about your read on Vezok and Gamma with this very non-committal answer about Gamma. I will admit this is probably why I said it was wishy washy, which isn't fair since it is only one instance. I just found it odd given Empire's 672 and how strong that read seemed to be when I first read it. In your defense, I should not have been as shortsighted and probably examined Empire's posts more to see that your team was diminishing that Gamma scum read.

I don't like that because I really don't think Gamma's scum despite not having a good reason to vote me.

@Titus...there's a difference between discrediting you and discrediting your argument which was wrong and hypocritical. I'm not sure why you've continued to overlook that. My predecessors don't really need to agree with my positions, nor I theirs and it's really weird that you're even calling on that as an issue. The only one you can even compare it to is Zar since he's still playing TM, but I won't/don't sheep my teammates unconditionally unless I have no choice.

Re: provoking me...can I make it easier for you to understand me? I'm not really sure how my communication has failed since I've been voted.

@GiF...that Gamma vote sucks only because you're using "proxy" as an excuse.

This is currently the 12th? or 11th? mention of Gamma in your iso and it is the only where you come close to having a read on him. Then you start to just get into a conversation with him that sounds like you're town reading him but you never explicitly state it.

Spoiler: quotes yo

no, i understand the answer, I just want you to say, without commenting on meta simultaneously, whether you think I am scum or town.

Right now, my only agenda is to discredit your argument, not to get you lynched. Unless your lynch is emimant, this is only my backhanded support for it (hey this means you moved from a town read to a neutrally scummy read!).

Question: why do you seem to need me to commit to a binary read on you?

okay. i know you given me a very good idea of the answer, but I want a very specific "town" or "scum" answer without it being hidden behind wording like 'could be scum' or 'neutrally scummy' or 'scummier'. Changing your mind on my alignment later will not cause the earth to collapse into a black hole.

if you had to bet the ENTIRE GAME on my flip, right now, what would it be.

you'll see once you answer the question.

Town.

This is the time that you give the hard read on him. I'm sorry for having missed this. The Crtl F skim didn't pick this up because well... Yeah, no mention of Gamma in these posts.

So yeah, that's that

[Titus]

@Oversoul, I get your pressuring Singer. I like it but now's not the time. We need to get a lynch now. That wagon is rejected by Ffery, so it's not going to happen lynch 1 and not likely at all today.

Please vote TSO or explain why you are not.

[singersigner]

This is just another random lynch that won't give much info if it's town. :/ TSO was v/la for a week, it's not weird that he dropped off, and I thought he was active and townie when he was posting. However since this seems to be Dan vs TSO I would rather vote TSO. I do not condone this. >:| He had best claim, we were suposed to have lynched by now. Setting the deadline later was stupid, we'd already had Fake Day 1 and we should have known we have special procrastination powers. I wish I had considered that sooner. At least we're learning when this presumably happens again tomorrow.

This is something I can actually agree with you on. I know people probably think UT is being flighty when he says "I don't fucking care who we lynch" but at some point information is information. The possibility for a second lynch is built into the mechanics for a reason, and I think we should take advantage of it when we can, especially since that'll give Ffery/team the best information to work with, as we have little time with them left.

It's not that I want to lynch blindly, but we also should've thought about the possibility of claiming before we got to this point, as it'd be really easy for scum whose lynch is inevitable to just claim any goddamn thing and live longer, creating a scramble and another flash wagon that will give us even less information.

I almost feel like we should choose the second person regardless of what TSO/the first person flips. >_>

Preview Edit:
@Oversoul...Ok! That makes a lot more sense. I thought that it was maybe Regfan's reads list that confused you but I wanted to make sure. The bolded were specifically reads we weren't sure of and couldn't parse them out yet. Though I'm flattered you're deferring to my judgement of him (at least a little bit), I really have no idea how to read Gamma...in f2f or the forums. Like...I really just always find him cheeky, and he basically has one town tell that he only ever does sometimes in f2f that he literally could not possibly do here. So yeah, he seems more town than plenty of other people at the moment so I'm fine with that read. I just...you should probably come to your own conclusion on him because I'm basically going on gut and ~feelings~ right now. Specifically with regards to me, though, he really just seemed like he was genuinely trying to figure out the game, as opposed to setting me up for a trap.

[singersigner]

@Oversoul, I get your pressuring Singer. I like it but now's not the time. We need to get a lynch now. That wagon is rejected by Ffery, so it's not going to happen lynch 1 and not likely at all today.

Please vote TSO or explain why you are not.

Ok, did you even read his post? How did you get pressure out of that??

[Titus]

@Oversoul, I get your pressuring Singer. I like it but now's not the time. We need to get a lynch now. That wagon is rejected by Ffery, so it's not going to happen lynch 1 and not likely at all today.

Please vote TSO or explain why you are not.

Ok, did you even read his post? How did you get pressure out of that??

How could you not? Oversoul's basically criticizing your lack of red of Gamma.

[Formerfish]

Finace was in the emergency room tonight. I did not have time to do anything.

[singersigner]

He literally just said he was essentially trying to consult my read on Gamma being the one, as far as he knew, who could read him the best...for whatever reason, I don't know, beats me. I then kind of accused him of making up a read entirely and asked him to explain it, so he did. I don't see where he's criticizing me at all. If anything, it was defending his mistake, which I acknowledge that's all it seems to have been.

[hitogoroshi]

VC 75 (Major Day 1, VC 37)

(8)

T S O:

Titus, Untrod Tripod, Gammagooey, singersigner, mastin2, vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, ActionDan [L-2]
(6)

ActionDan:

DeasVail, T S O, Espeonage, Aronis, GuyInFreezer, ChannelDelibird
(2)

singersigner:

Bulbazak, Shadoweh
(1)

Formerfish:

TellTaleHeart
(1)

TellTaleHeart:

Oversoul
(0)

Espeonage:

(ActionDan)

(1)

Not Voting:

Formerfish

With 19 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[Untrod Tripod]

man, I just never will get tired of people saying they agree with me

[Oversoul]

I actually do want to talk to you about more pressure you, but I'm playing league right now. Will yo ube around for a little longer?

[Oversoul]

@Singer

[Shadoweh]

Oh you need to vote Shadoweh.

I'm voting exactly where I want to. You can consider my vote on TSO without putting him at L-1.

[singersigner]

I actually do want to talk to you about more pressure you, but I'm playing league right now. Will yo ube around for a little longer?

Um, ok. I'm in bed watching TGW, but I can phone post? What choo got for me?

[Titus]

@Shadoweh, Why the reluctance to put TSO at L-1 when you think a lynch is overdue?

[Titus]

Finace was in the emergency room tonight. I did not have time to do anything.

That's unfortunate. I hope she or he feels better soon.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul...can you clarify Tammy's mistake with her actions one more time?

1. What is this referring to? I can't find anything in my ISO where I said mistake?

* Concerned about Oversoul/Tammy because why would Tammy replace out over Esp but not Zar? And why is Oversoul trying to start out with completely fresh reads instead of taking into account Tammy's?

2. What? Why are you concerned about Tammy and I switching? Indulge me for a bit, because it is about to get super self-metay.
Tammy and Oversoul both hate playing scum.
Tammy and Oversoul both spent tokens trying to get town.
Tammy and Oversoul both like playing town.
They like playing town because there is less stress and more freedom.
Tammy and Oversoul would *never* willingly jump into a slot that they *know* is scum.
It was almost a trust tell back when I still played a lot that I would never take a role I knew was scum.

But those aren't the only reasons why this concern is poor form coming from your team, Singer.
Why would Tammy chose to replace out against Espeonage *rather* than Zar? Someone who actually knows her scum game? And someone who has played extensively with Tammy? That makes no sense. Tammy replaced out because Tammy felt that Espeonage had a weird fixation on her, to the point that he would comment on almost every single post that Tammy made. Tammy didn't want to derail the game with that nonsense, so she asked if she could switch. I agreed because I was the most caught up with this game (lol still 60 pages behind) and I thought it would be fun.



So far the fun aspect has yet to show.
Your entire team should *know* how Tammy operates seeing as how often they play with her.

Just look at the situation from Tammy's perspective
- Zar is a scum read
- Zar is not hounding Tammy every post
- Zar is not purposefully misinterpreting posts trying to goad Tammy into a fight
- Tammy was mad at Empire for comments he made, yet still didn't feel personal. Your question/concern is skeevy, but I'm willing to chalk it up to paranoia that always rears its ugly head.

ALL of these things are opposites with Espeonage.

Tammy also says that you should not compare your scum game to Tammy's scum game since she feels that you two play very differently. She says she wouldn't be "worried" about fucking up and that Mina/Zar/Regfan should know that.

And last but not least, why the hell would Tammy switch out of a game where she almost universally town read?

Should send you all to Qyburn to realign your scumdars.

[Shadoweh]

Because he should claim before someone hammers him because a lynch is overdue? These are silly questions Titus.

[Titus]

L-1 is not a hammer...

[Shadoweh]

Titus please.

[ActionDan]

She means someone else after she votes

[Oversoul]

Do we have to get two lynches through in those 4 days before deadline?

[ActionDan]

Why not?

[fferyllt]

Do we have to get two lynches through in those 4 days before deadline?

have to? no. Going to? I certainly hope so!