Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Untrod Tripod]

(see? I can work together with people!)

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm starting to get paranoid I'm being manipulated into fighting with other stubborn confrontational people so that we'll clutter up the thread and the scum can hide

who benefits from just sort of letting this happen and maybe egging it on? are all of us just on completely the wrong track?

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm really wanting to take a step back here:

I LIKE oversoul. I LIKE ffer, I RESPECT Titus (okay fine, fine, I like you too). Am I just trying to shake shit up because the gamestate is so obnoxious, or is someone pulling the strings here

unvote, vote singer

this really was a better vote imo from mah gut and I think I got distracted onto a Titus vote somehow by a combination of boredom and stircraziness.

[Untrod Tripod]

MANNA FROM GOD

SleepyKrew thinks they should post less and also be nicer to UT

...maybe they'll have more useful shit later

[Oversoul]

Ok. I am tired of all this babble about wanting Singer or Titus lynched. I'm ending this now.

First and foremost is the Empire switch into the slot. Empire hates scum. Empire's scum game is good to a point, but from what I remember it devolves into self-pity and lurking. The only scumgames I have seen where the massive Westeros game and another concurrent game. Both of the games featured Empire in a hydra. Both of those games featured Empire essentially leaving the game and just having his hydra partner post. There is absolutely no chance that Empire willingly switched into a scumslot, unless very unlikely extenuating circumstances*. I will only flesh out these circumstances once other games progress, but for now I will remain quiet about this caveat.

Now that we have that out of the way, let us look at the collection of posts from all three people who have been featured in that slot. Level of detail will be higher for Singer because I think people are seeing Singer's posts as naturally scummy.

Zar

I really dislike most of Zar's posts because they are just cheeky in general. The Tammy/Zar stuff I think started due to a dichotomy of seriousness between the two. Zar was not taking it as seriously as Tammy was and so he looks more defense because of that. I also don't like how he was, as he admitted, a telephone boy with his team and this game. That said, I do like Zar's ending, specifically his 318 and his 412. He displays self reflection in both of those posts that has a conciliatory, yet defeated tone that is unlikely to come from scum. I think Zar at this point would have dug in and remained indignant about everything.

Empire

Contrary to Zar, I LOVED Empire's early posts, especially post 672. His reads more or less aligned with what I was feeling as an observer looking over Tammy's soldier.

Not only do I know Empire has a penchant for hating scum, I know that Empire spent tokens on town in his game and also at the time of this game felt very distressed. In my mind, there is a less than 1% chance that Empire switched into a scum role. That chance is only if he also drew scum in the other game.

That said, I did not see the harsh Gamma scum read coming from him. I did not think Gamma was super scummy, but then again, I can't really read Gamma. I also find it a little weird that Zar never forwarded these reads into the game as it appeared Empire had spent a large amount of time developing those reads?

Uh, have you spoken to your team about me (#754 implies that you have)? Because I find it very hard to believe that a guy who (probably still) believes I have no scum game suspects me in this game.

I also really liked this response by Empire to CDB. It feels so town and "WTF how is he concluding that?"

In addition, Empire was willing to talk things out with Tammy and his scum reads, which I don't think a scum member who wants to display gusto would be doing.

That said, I did not like that he focused on relaying so much of his teammates' opinions, especially after Zar was complaining about having to do that himself. I also did not like his TTH vote because that it looked jejune and opportunistic.

Singer

I like that she addresses the TTH stuff early in her time in this game, but she actually never gives us what her team thought with that vote. I like the fact that she also sees Vezok as town for much the same reason that I see Vezok as town.

She quickly becomes familiar with the game despite not being in that team at all and she also quickly develops reads that seem independent of what was commonly felt by the town (at the time she made her reads).

I like her Shadoweh suspicions too because I had thoughts along the lines of "What is Shadoweh actually pushing for?". I think of Shadoweh as a big/high impact player. Her presence in this game has generally been weak thus far.

Her tone and approach the game is more let us work together and less like that she is being forced to provide/fake content. Specifically, post 1841 abundantly has this feeling.

That said, I did not like her treatment of Tammy when Tammy admitted to not reading the rules/roles in the first post of the game. It felt patronizing and more theoretical than anything at all, which is out of place for Singer.

Um...

@UT...when you said you forgot that Ffery was confirmed town, does that strike you as something one alignment would do over the other, or just a generic mistake? I'm going to explain my thoughts on that lest someone mistakes that for a trick question...

As town, my priorities are finding scum; however, in the absence of an ability to do so, town hunting could be considered equally important. In this particular instance, with the locked thread, the public mistake, the missed hours of game time...all kind of flashing red lights to what's going on, don't you think? Because of this, I have a

seriously

hard time believing it was just an oversight.

So let me explain why I think this is more likely to come from scum...

AS SCUM, you're trying to trick the town, or throw shit around, or blend in, or make enough noise that people get distracted, or whatever scum-playing tactic one might have, right? It's my theory that a scumUT was more concentrated on trying to pressure/find little indescrepencies with one of the most recent posts (probably didn't matter who the poster was) that could potentially thrust someone else into negative limelight.

His priority didn't read as "is this person scum" it reads "is this person scummy."

Preview Edit:
lol, it's k, yeah that was directed at Aronis, and should've said "so was" not "so what" but I digress...

These opinions about UT and Fferylt were almost identical to my own when I saw UT do that. I was clamoring for UT blood in the PT but Tammy didn't think he was scummy so she didn't follow through. UT forgetting about Fferyllt's status was the first indicator to me that he was not actually reading this game and was merely trying to phone in, like I would expect scum to do. That said, it says something that Singer is willing to bring this up after some time has passed with the initial incident. That shows she is digging into people to figure them out. This is not surface level of content, people. This is scumhunting.

I don't really like post 2041, but the general tone of it reads town to me. I don't know if she would want to antagonize someone in that manner unless she did not care about how much pressure was being applied to her. In general, a lack of concern about one's personal status (lynch candidacy, suspicion level) is a town tell.

Her discussions with Gamma also make me lean town for Singer because that was a substantial discussion that she had with him about his reasoning for suspecting her. She is working with people trying to help them understand her play while also coming to consensus. THAT IS TOWN PLAY.

The big posts about TTH and Shadoweh are nice and all but the seem really out of place/desperate. Plus, I would expect one about UT given her team's general feeling about him. That said, I agree 1000% with her first point against TTH. It only makes sense that TTH did that unless there is a caveat on her role, like there is on the nightkill, that she needs the sign of the player in order for her action to be successful.

I wasn't calling your meta post cheeky (nor did I even imply I was), I was calling our conversation cheeky. I didn't trust your line of questioning because I wasn't sure if it came from a town mindset or scum mindset and thought you were trying to set me up. I brought up people who knew my town meta because you had failed to convince me you weren't taking that into account when you brought it up in the first place.

Re biting sarcasm...once again, you're right! I'm going to use everything I know how to discredit the people who are wrong about me and appeal to the people who are right. Again, I fail to see how you think that's alignment indicative, much less leaning scum.

I'm not getting lynched today, Gamma, and I'm really fucking annoyed you're still pressing this. Does it tell you anything that not even my bigger supporters of singerscum have acknowledged your concerns about me? I really don't have the energy to fight you anymore on this so if you want to keep pushing my lynch I'll let you keep failing.

That being said, gun to your head, who're my scum buddies?

I'm fairly ambivalent about this post. I think the first paragraph is townie. Singer is displaying appropriate levels of paranoia/suspicion in her actions, which is good because a townie does not know anything for certain. The second paragraph hits a sour note with me. I don't like the comment about discrediting people and it plays into the third paragraph where she tries to undermine Gamma's legitimacy by saying no one agrees with him. That looked like scum caught for the wrong reasons. Her fourth paragraph, asking about her buddies, has pro's and con's. It is beneficial for scum to ask that sort of question to alert scum buddies to adjust their play accordingly, but that is also the sort of thing a cocky person would say in this situation. I feel that Singer is fairly cocky in this moment so the comment is not out of place.

Hate her TSO vote, but she gets town points for the way she interacted with me. I don't see scum Singer going through the trouble of casting doubt on my slot given the general approval that I am town and then saying at the end of the suspicion I am town again. Seems like a futile/useless exercise, unless she wanted to appear like she was contemplating everything. Generally, I do not think scum plan that far ahead or are acutely aware of the moment to make that type of move.

Sure, I can see the reasons why people think Singer is scum but I think there is more reason to think she is town given her play. She has a natural cadence/posting style that just seems suspicious on face value, but her actions look fairly town to me.

pedit:

Damn.

That slew of posts makes me feel really conflicted about you, UT.

UGH JUST ADMIT YOU ARE FUCKING SCUM IF YOU ARE

UT, but your teammates are reading and giving opinions on other games they are not in? They are just flat out ignoring this game?

[hitogoroshi]

VC 84 (Major Day 1, VC 46)

(4)

Titus:

Espeonage, Cheetory6, GuyInFreezer, vezokpiraka

(Untrod Tripod)

[L-6]
(3)

singersigner:

mastin2, Aronis, Untrod Tripod
(2)

Espeonage:

ActionDan, ChannelDelibird
(2)

Untrod Tripod:

Oversoul, Titus
(1)

Aronis:

Shadoweh

(Gammagooey, TellTaleHeart, Titus)

(1)

Shadoweh:

singersigner
(1)

ChannelDelibird:

Gammagooey

(4)

Not Voting:

Formerfish, DeasVail, Bulbazak, TellTaleHeart

With 18 votes in play, it takes 10 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 25th, at 9PM CST.

Major Day One Deadline

(expired on 2015-04-25 20:00:00)

[Oversoul]

I agree that my expectations of your play might be too high, maybe even completely out of line given your personality. I have opinions of "this is how a reasonable townie would act/play" and it is partly based off how I play. That might be the issue.

You and I have such vastly different playstyles, that when I see you playing and not doing "reasonable townie" things my mind goes red alert. But damn though, your play has never felt like you had conviction or desire to even root out the scum.

[Oversoul]

Singer, whatever happened to your team's read on UT by the way?

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, but your teammates are reading and giving opinions on other games they are not in? They are just flat out ignoring this game?

we're like, kind of commenting on each other's games, but mine is really getting the cold shoulder because of the length and nonsense

I'm not scum, bro, sorry to ruin your party

wrt to singer, imo with the ffery thing it looked more like nitpicking to try to find a "scumslip", not actual scumhunting. I can see how we're gonna disagree there, but that's just how it is.

I agree that my expectations of your play might be too high, maybe even completely out of line given your personality. I have opinions of "this is how a reasonable townie would act/play" and it is partly based off how I play. That might be the issue.

You and I have such vastly different playstyles, that when I see you playing and not doing "reasonable townie" things my mind goes red alert. But damn though, your play has never felt like you had conviction or desire to even root out the scum.

I'm not... sure... what you're saying... here.... Are you conflating personality and ABILITY? because it kind of seems like you're saying "I expected you to be better at mafia" then you're admitting you don't even fully understand what I'm doing. which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but maybe I'm just misreading

also my methods of scumhunting are going to be different from yours, and not designed to be me standing up on a hill with a big sign going I AM LOOKING FOR THE SCUM. HEY YOU. LET'S HAVE A DIALOGUE ABOUT HOW I THINK YOU'RE SCUM

[fferyllt]

That slew of posts makes me feel really conflicted about you, UT.

you're town enough already. get out of my head.

It's like inuyashi all over again.

[fferyllt]

that's me officially saying "meh" to a UT wagon.

[Oversoul]

Oh god I hated that game

[Oversoul]

UT I see your personality as hilarious/jokester. Generally means you are more laid back and easy going which is why I think I am having such a hard time reconciling your play because mafia is srs. 24/7

[Untrod Tripod]

so how does that mean your expectations where "too high"? what metric were you talking about

[Espeonage]

Well ok. I am a bit concerned about you limiting the lynch options to AD, Singer, Titus, UT, Espe. 2 you think are town, 1 null, 1 scum, and I don't actually know what you think of me since I was on Espe but you also hated my wagon but I'll assume not a hard scum hard. The point is you're advocating limiting to options in which you truly only believe 1/5 will flip scum. That at the least is counter intuitive to me despite the assertion that you think information wise we'd get the most out of lynching 1 of these 5.

That actually weirdly makes me happier with him.

[Oversoul]

Well Iguess hi wasn't the right word
Different would have been more appropriate

[Espeonage]

No one ever explained Aronis to me. Singer looks genuine, Titus does not. UT always seems to be kinda lynch baity because he is abrasive, but I can see him trying to do things right now.

None of the other options give me the happy, "I'm voting scum" feels that Titus does.

[Gammagooey]

i am so tired of taking this game seriously so i am taking this opportunity to mispell everything i can for the next 24 hours

esp dat seams fiyn

wat aboot cdb tho

i jst warnt to lynnch cdb

[Gammagooey]

lez no lynnch ooo tee

and no lynnch esp

and no lynnch singar

and maibe no lynnch aronis

lez lynch see-debee oor tietous

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE: UT

fuck
I feel so defeated after that

[Titus]

UNVOTE: UT

God, really FFery.. please no flashbacks...this game reminds me of that game and that was literally the most frustrating game ever.

[Untrod Tripod]

if I had a nickel...

so, oversoul, which entry on the lazy susan lynch-o-matic choice machine strikes your fancy?

[fferyllt]

UNVOTE: UT

God, really FFery.. please no flashbacks...this game reminds me of that game and that was literally the most frustrating game ever.

oversoul here reminds me of how he and I had very similar reactions to posts in that game.

I was speechless when he was mislynched.

[fferyllt]

We're still processing stuff, but are leaning toward CDB.

god I wish I had a vote.

[Gammagooey]

We're still processing stuff, but are leaning toward CDB.

god I wish I had a vote.

YEY

LEZ DEW IT