Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[davesaz]

Looks to be another rough day at work. I do have time to jot down my notes on all the players. I think the last scum is clearly among 4 players.

Town: Honey Bee, talah

likely town: Ploben, taly

Less likely to be town: netherspite

Possible scum:

ChriVi -- Abrasive attitude could be an attempt to hide scummy behavior behind bad. Had weird positions pretty much all the time. To Do: review vote pattern and interaction pattern

Probable scum:
GreyICE -- the whole vettrock thing could have been scum getting in on the ground floor of a lynch that was likely to happen. Not on Kaboose. To Do: review interactions with the Kaboose wagon

Pisskop -- The claim to have started vettrock wagon was proven to be stretching the truth at best, and it's a position scum might take. Was primarily responsible for the oddmusic wagon which is now proven to have been the CW. As scum "hammering" Kaboose would definitely be the right move once it became obvious too few people would accept the CW. To Do: look at everything else to see if I'm just confbiasing

I really think my fellow townies need to take a hard look at GreyICE and Pisskop. I'd be willing to settle for ChriVi. I'd listen to a strong case on Netherspite.

[Netherspite]

Nether, is Taly town to you now based purely on Kaboose's flip?

Yes. I was hardly tunneling the wrong slot because I didn't want to flip empty slot.

Why wait till now to clarify that it was your change in perspective on pisskop that removed your Taly scumread?

May be I've explained it bad.
Clarified by the

Taly

's request.

[Honey bee]

@Honey bee

I don't see how that statement contradicts the rest of my play.
I'm just saying what I think about bussing vettrock.
Under "bussing" I mean helping his lynch in any way. Doing that subtly like Taly did would be awesome as a scum tactic because no one will see it as scummy move ("If he is scum he'd bus more obviously to get towncred").

It felt out of nowhere. Especially when your previous suspect was talah and you had hardly questioned the motives of the players actually on that wagon. Using that as a reason to push taly and not kaboose feels fake without it being elsewhere.

And scum bus for towncred obviously, so they want to do it in obvious ways. Otherwise you receive no credit. and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person to mention it or town read him for that.

[Netherspite]

Just look at how pisskop now says that he started a wagon on vett. It was that kind of bussing ready to use when needed. Like when you need some extra towncred you just pop this out and say "hey I was lynching that scum" without the risk of being called out on obvious bussing.
that's what I mean under vague and subtle kind of bussing which is imo definitely a good scumplay.

[pisskop]

I would like to ask you why you didnt bring that up before?

What's so wrong about pisskop's interaction with vettrock? You didn't mention it before.

In fact, you seemed to have the opposite idea in mind.

[pisskop]

You are bad scumzors.

[Taly]

Sorry Dave, but I'm not sold on Ploben being town at all at the moment. Where has he even been since D1?

The fact that his first and so far only post this day so far, is him offhandedly suggesting to Grey that HB bussed both scum, really urges me... I'm not saying Ploben is scum, but... I'm not getting good vibes from him.

If we all took a look at the first 5 to 10 pages, I think there might be some serious planned scum talk here. Possibly directed at how Vett, and Kaboose may have interacted with either ChriVi, Ploben, and/or Grey(NJACs slot.) But ChriVi is meh to me at the moment, and Grey... Eh....

Grey and Pisskop aren't my highest priority, but I'll look into them a bit as well.

Another thing, oddmusic was NOT an avid poster in D2. This tells me, that either scum was very active in D2 - and killed someone to get off the radar. Or someone from D1 that is scum, killed someone because they proved a great threat to them on that day in some case.

>>>Ooh, another Piss+Nether clash... Never thought I'd say that.

Also, I don't think Nethers push on Pisskop is very believable, but that doesn't make him defined scum to me yet. He is a possible candidate. But I don't want a quicklynch, nor a quicklynch on Nether right now.

[ploben]

This is his only post today? We all know Honey Bee isn't confirmed town, so why are you adding that as a suggestion to Grey? Plus, WHY are you giving the idea that HB is bussing both scum partners? It's possible, but why is THIS the ONLY thing you've said has caught my attention the past 30 pages?

I smell null-lurker. Do you have something to say for yourself? What are your reads?

Yeah...it's amazing what a vacation and 3 week days will do to your interest in a mafia forum game. I honestly care very little for this game any more, sorry. Bright side: we're 8 vs 1 now so the end is near.

I was trying to get some talk around Honey with the double buss theory but no one was interested so I didn't really care to follow up. Honey is probably town.

ChriVi is just shit town, it sucks because a ChriVi lynch is more of a policy lynch but it's got to go. So unless town is convinced of a better lynch today it might be better to rid us of ChriVi now before we get to like 5 vs 1 and we can't afford a mislynch lynch.

Everyone else is just making noise so ISOs and interactions between confirmed scum and the rest of us need to be looked at.

[davesaz]

Sorry Dave, but I'm not sold on Ploben being town at all at the moment. Where has he even been since D1?

The majority of that read is D1 with a little D2. The D1 analysis makes it unlikely he'd be in a team with the flipped scum.
I know I haven't provided the quotes / links, a bit busy at work. We do have plenty of time.

[GreyICE]

There were 4 major wagons day 1:

ChriVi (5):

Talah, Netherspite,

Kaboose

, Taly,

dodgy56

[Pisskop]

NJAC (5) [me]:

ploben, Netherspite, Taly, ChriVi,

Kaboose

Kaboose (3):

oddmusic,

ploben, Talah

vettrock (5):

Honey bee, GreyICE, Netherspite,

oddmusic,

ploben

oddmusic (5):

ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah, Taly,

vettrock

What truly strikes me here is how little time Dave has spent on any wagons that mattered.

Oh and Ploben is town, but I've been saying that a few days now.

[Netherspite]

vettrock should be marked red as well.

[GreyICE]

I'd still like to lynch Talah for yesterday, but it's really odd(no pun intended) about those two wagons yesterday. There are two scum somewhere in the votes(captain obvious)/(not counting Vett of course)... and there could have been just a simple unvote, or oddmusic vote and scum could have saved Vett... So why didn't that happen? Were both wagons scum, and there just wasn't a way to bother saving one or the other? I can't imagine all the scum were already on vettrock, because that would make no sense. Then again Vett did put the 5th vote on Oddmusic which made the possibility of an unvote or extra Odd vote a possibility. So I'm assuming now that Odd is town based on him surviving the lynch and Vettrock being the lynch while both tied.

I think there's a damn good chance that Vett wasn't the only scum on the odd wagon either. Which goes in line with my thinking that Talah is scum.

VOTE: Talah

This makes me feel better about Pisskop, because this looks like it came from discussion in the scum QT. They'd have come to a consensus whether Odd needed to be shot or not (the answer was yes, their first nightkill they used to off oddmusic). Given that, Pisskop coming out hard swinging for Odd would be... odd.

[ChriVi]

@ChriVi

I'm going to ignore you for the rest of the game because talking to you ruins the last rule of every game at MS: having fun. I don't find it fun to talk with someone as uselessly aggressive and bad mannered as you.
This does not mean I'll stop voting you though.
Using your mask of aggression and wagonhopping is definitely a nice scum strategy ("Hey, guys, look at my meta, I'm always like that when I'm town so I'm town"). No. It does not make you town.

Yay!

This is his only post today? We all know Honey Bee isn't confirmed town, so why are you adding that as a suggestion to Grey? Plus, WHY are you giving the idea that HB is bussing both scum partners? It's possible, but why is THIS the ONLY thing you've said has caught my attention the past 30 pages?

I smell null-lurker. Do you have something to say for yourself? What are your reads?

Yeah...it's amazing what a vacation and 3 week days will do to your interest in a mafia forum game. I honestly care very little for this game any more, sorry. Bright side: we're 8 vs 1 now so the end is near.

I was trying to get some talk around Honey with the double buss theory but no one was interested so I didn't really care to follow up. Honey is probably town.

ChriVi is just shit town, it sucks because a ChriVi lynch is more of a policy lynch but it's got to go. So unless town is convinced of a better lynch today it might be better to rid us of ChriVi now before we get to like 5 vs 1 and we can't afford a mislynch lynch.

Everyone else is just making noise so ISOs and interactions between confirmed scum and the rest of us need to be looked at.

Lol policy lynch at day three in 8 vs 1

totally makes sense

@Taly: Yeah you're still hella town in my eyes, same with Honeybee. We've already won this as long as my reads on you both are right. Last scum is in nether or pisskop, pick one and I'll follow.

[Taly]

This is his only post today? We all know Honey Bee isn't confirmed town, so why are you adding that as a suggestion to Grey? Plus, WHY are you giving the idea that HB is bussing both scum partners? It's possible, but why is THIS the ONLY thing you've said has caught my attention the past 30 pages?

I smell null-lurker. Do you have something to say for yourself? What are your reads?

Yeah...it's amazing what a vacation and 3 week days will do to your interest in a mafia forum game. I honestly care very little for this game any more, sorry. Bright side: we're 8 vs 1 now so the end is near.

I was trying to get some talk around Honey with the double buss theory but no one was interested so I didn't really care to follow up. Honey is probably town.

ChriVi is just shit town, it sucks because a ChriVi lynch is more of a policy lynch but it's got to go. So unless town is convinced of a better lynch today it might be better to rid us of ChriVi now before we get to like 5 vs 1 and we can't afford a mislynch lynch.

Everyone else is just making noise so ISOs and interactions between confirmed scum and the rest of us need to be looked at.

Oh.. I just don't recall you saying you were on vacation. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Who do you think is scum? And to follow up on what you were meaning with that conversation - what makes you think Honey might have bussed scum twice so far?

A ChriVi lynch would be a PL... Which is why I'm hesitant over that wagon. :/ I don't want to lynch anyone that isn't a stronger scum read of mine at this point.

Sorry Dave, but I'm not sold on Ploben being town at all at the moment. Where has he even been since D1?

The majority of that read is D1 with a little D2. The D1 analysis makes it unlikely he'd be in a team with the flipped scum.
I know I haven't provided the quotes / links, a bit busy at work. We do have plenty of time.

Yeah... I just found it a little weird on his part. He needs to say something despite his lack of interest at this point.

Honestly, I think I'm even more interested in this game at this point than I was back in D1.

There were 4 major wagons day 1:

ChriVi (5):

Talah, Netherspite,

Kaboose

, Taly,

dodgy56

[Pisskop]

NJAC (5) [me]:

ploben, Netherspite, Taly, ChriVi,

Kaboose

Kaboose (3):

oddmusic,

ploben, Talah

vettrock (5):

Honey bee, GreyICE, Netherspite,

oddmusic,

ploben

oddmusic (5):

ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah, Taly,

vettrock

What truly strikes me here is how little time Dave has spent on any wagons that mattered.

Oh and Ploben is town, but I've been saying that a few days now.

Yeah, I see. Dave hasn't really been on any major wagons, and I would believe him bussing Kaboose more than Pisskop bussing Kaboose over that matter.

But Dave, what exactly made you vote on Kaboose late D2?

@Grey, who do you think is more likely scum, Pisskop or Dave? - If you think those 2 have scum between them.

I remembered what I said back in D2. There is scum in between Talah, Dave, and Nether.

I'm just about to throw Talah off that table here, I'm having a hard time seeing scum there. I'm having a hard time seeing Nether as super scummy, but I honestly don't see much town there at all anymore. Dave has been meh with me.

@ChriVi - Heh, you're not wrong with your read on me. But like, how do I appear very townie in your eyes?

I think HB is more likely town as well. I can see the last scum being in between Nether and Pisskop, but I'm not throwing Dave off the table here. I also am not sold on Pisskop scum.

To be honest, I'd be quicker going on the Nether wagon more than anything else, but he has gotten a lot of quick votes in a short time and I want to do some detective shit here. :/

Also ChriVi, what do you think about Dave?

[ChriVi]

Dave could be scum but that's assuming we lynch nether and pisskop and they end up both being town somehow (which btw isn't happening).

Can we lynch nether and finish the game already?

And idk taly. You're scumhunting, supporting the game well, pushing town well, and a simple VCA shows more than is needed about how townie you are.

[Netherspite]

To be honest, I'd be quicker going on the Nether wagon more than anything else, but he has gotten a lot of quick votes in a short time and I want to do some detective shit here. :/

I really don't want to get another "Lynched" for my wiki page but it seems this way we'll win this game faster. So I wouldn't mind a quicklynch on me.
This way you'll at least stop discussing

ChriVi

's stupid assumption that I can be scum and do something better.

[talah]

I really don't want to get another "Lynched" for my wiki page but it seems this way we'll win this game faster. So I wouldn't mind a quicklynch on me.
This way you'll at least stop discussing

ChriVi

's stupid assumption that I can be scum and do something better.

You seem to be assuming that your dying wishes will be fait accompli if you get lynched. The fact is they rarely do unless someone super-town flips. Even then town are often wrong.
It might be more constructive if you put yourself in the mindset of it hypothetically being 48 hours out from deadline with yourself the only viable lynch. And come up with some reads with reasons for the rest of town to consider. I'd actually like to hear about your reasons for townreading people if you work that way. At the moment your posts are all grey and muddy to me and you seem hell-bent on a ChriVi lynch for a "scumslip" which I'm not even sure is important.

I still don't see them with

Kaboose

as partners.
Staying off competing wagons together would out them as partners.

The sequence of events was Kaboose saying I was "Hot Wagons", Dave voting me with something like 48 hours left in the day with a case which was "you're voting oddmusic because he's the leading wagon" (who flipped town) while posting a quote wall which contained precisely one post prior to me voting oddmusic (the rest being me explaining in short "read the fucking thread") and made no reference to the argument I'd had previously with odd. Kaboose then sheeped that vote from Dave and claimed credit for 'seeing my scumminess first'.

I don't think Kaboose's sheep of Dave (or vice-versa) necessarily points to an awareness of the scumminess of two scum being off both wagons. I think more likely it points to either an attempt to create an 11th hour counterwagon or simply a bad move from Kaboose which wasn't accompanied by fantastic communication in the scumthread. Dave's move there, however, was baffling. I know he's tried to explain it with logic but it makes no sense. Surely you look at the two options available and state your opinion - whether both wagons are bad, one is better, both are fine, whatever. Fact is one wagon was on scum and one wagon was on town and we *know* that Kaboose sheeped Dave on to a ridiculous end-of-day vote for *some reason*. And the reason I'm seeing is that it was going to be too obvious to either bus or save, so do something else (from Dave), and my scumbuddy just made this move, must be a good move (from Kaboose).

I could be wrong, I'll go back through it in more detail later, but -happy Friday- and all that. And I feel like a broken record bringing this up over and over so perhaps if anyone disagrees with this or thinks it's not important they can lay down some specific opinion on the matter.

---

Yeah...it's amazing what a vacation and 3 week days will do to your interest in a mafia forum game. I honestly care very little for this game any more, sorry. Bright side: we're 8 vs 1 now so the end is near.

Hello young fella. Now that our newbie game's ended I'd like to let you know I expect you to come in and lay some golden town-bricks beyond having some reads. I'm certainly townreading you because as scum you seemed to want to hedge and chop and change and you don't seem to be doing that this game, but you kind of missed out on virtually all of yesterday and having read the scumthread (plus another one I stumbled on) you're actually a very competent scum player and I have certain reservations.
Also you *must* know that stating apathy for a game is pretty strongly anti-town as it breeds same, so stop doing that if you're town.
Thanks and get your arse in here.

---

@Taly: Yeah you're still hella town in my eyes, same with Honeybee. We've already won this as long as my reads on you both are right. Last scum is in nether or pisskop, pick one and I'll follow.

Um, no. You have three people in your townbloc. There are 9 players alive with 1 scum left. If one non-townbloc member gets lynched and one townbloc member gets nk'd each day from now on that would leave 3 players remaining that you probably don't have a read on at all, in 3p lylo.

111
11111
1

Top are townbloc including you, middle are unknown to you, bottom is scum (also unknown to you).
Are you trying to figure out the game? I'm just wondering.

And I think the fact Kaboose was scum somewhat invalidates me reading you as town -because- you didn't come in to influence the lynch one way or another when it would have been easy to shift your own vote to Kaboose.

---
@GreyICE
I wanted to ask you a question because we've interacted practically not at all and I'm super cautious firstly about my perception of you - which is able to bus at the drop of a hat and able to present extremely strong positions, most likely on tilt as town, most likely convincingly as scum. I admit I haven't paid you a whole lot of attention hoping I'd get a strong read from you either way.

What I'm *feeling* from you is that you're throwing your vote around a lot. Some of it seems pretty directed (ChriVi, Nether, davesaz at least have been consistent over time with you, possibly pisskpp as well) but scanning back just now you've actually been quite vocal and consistent with voting Taly as well. This I haven't really understood.

So... can I request an updated read on Taly from you please?

---
Yeah it's a wall. Enjoy your weekends!

[Netherspite]

@talah

I'm just getting little tired of facing the same thing every game I'm playing in.
My thought process and logic differs from most of other people. I find scummy things others don't consider scummy and vice versa.
I'm usually being transparent and honest for what I find scummy and why. My arguments though are rarely convincing because of the different thought process. Language barrier doesn't help either.
For example, I caught

vettrock

on a major scumslip (in my opinion it was) but no one else noticed it.
I've caught

ChriVi

now on a similar scumslip but again no one else sees it as a scumslip.

It makes me want to give up and say "whatever, just let them lynch me, eventually they'll realize the truth and lynch the last scum so I'll still win; may be the next game I'll hop in will have people who can understand not only their thought process and logic as the right one".
However as it was correctly noticed by

GreyICE

about

ChriVi

, if everyone else around you seem to be getting you wrong then may be it is you who is doing wrong things.
I can't change myself, so may be mafia is just the wrong type of game for me. Idk.

===

Speaking of your scumread on

davesaz

, now I see what you're talking about but I still think he's town. The things you use as an evidence of his scumminess are WIFOMy in their nature.
His behavior at the end of D1 may be coming from both town and scum mindset and we'll find it out only after seeing his flip or when the game will end.

===

As of

ChriVi

, it's pointless to attempt to find explanation for their actions coming from a town mindset because there is none.
They've employed a nice playstyle that makes them lynched often when they're town but nets a perfect excuse for the scummy behavior when they're scum.
The mask of randomly directed aggression and mindless wagon hopping matching their town meta makes people fall into the trap of considering them town just because it's their common town behavior despite this behavior is clearly anti-town play and by itself does not confirm anything.
All they need to do as a scum is to set up a row of 3 mislynches (that's what they just did) which will let them skate into endgame while surviving themselves and at LyLo they can try to win by using their common "I'm town, idiots, because it's my town playstyle to do scummy things" excuse.

[talah]

@talah

I'm just getting little tired of facing the same thing every game I'm playing in.
My thought process and logic differs from most of other people. I find scummy things others don't consider scummy and vice versa.
I'm usually being transparent and honest for what I find scummy and why. My arguments though are rarely convincing because of the different thought process. Language barrier doesn't help either.
For example, I caught

vettrock

on a major scumslip (in my opinion it was) but no one else noticed it.
I've caught

ChriVi

now on a similar scumslip but again no one else sees it as a scumslip.

Look that's fine, I'm not necessarily seeing you as scum but I find the rabid push on Taly really dubious and I find your push on ChriVi less credible than that. I'm trying to reach out to you to actually get some information directly. You're drip-feeding it to me but I'm going to feel stupid and possibly manipulated if I rephrase things you are saying and feed them back to you, interpreting them one way rather than having what you say be apparent. It's kind of a waste of time if I can't follow on from what you've said but rather need to clarify all the time. Maybe I just need to ignore that and focus on actual content from you more.

One last question here. Why did you tell people to regret their bad choices at the end of the day? You were that "sure".
Again that leads me back to what exactly is your thought process that leads you to believe Taly is now town?
(Taly I'm sorry if you're seeing me put you up as a question in a lot of situations now but the opinions of you have been marked and informative.)

It makes me want to give up and say "whatever, just let them lynch me, eventually they'll realize the truth and lynch the last scum so I'll still win; may be the next game I'll hop in will have people who can understand not only their thought process and logic as the right one".

Yeah but Nether, why are you considering your'e right on ChriVi when you've basically switched and said you were wrong on Taly - and Taly hasn't even flipped? It's such a stubborn position.
I read back through that interaction with ChriVi - and although I can see them as scum *pending* actual development of reads, I dont' see what you're pointing out as a scumslip. They literally said that if they've missed scum then you might be scum, after you questioned them for having 3 scumreads. The rest I'm seeing as you misinterpreting them not knowing the amount of scum left in the game. Presumably (and feeding you something you haven't said yet) because if they were scum they might just be pushing town heedless of the gamestate? I mean is that a better reason to scumread them than... say me? or Dave?

However as it was correctly noticed by

GreyICE

about

ChriVi

, if everyone else around you seem to be getting you wrong then may be it is you who is doing wrong things.
I can't change myself, so may be mafia is just the wrong type of game for me. Idk.

If you're town:
Chill. Assess. Give town information that you've spotted uniquely. Push it if you think it's scummy. Be prepared to explain why your reads have changed. That last especially is what I'm missing from you.
Take a day off if you need to. Defend yourself appropriately.
You've played 4 games on MS, all town? I'll take a look.

Speaking of your scumread on

davesaz

, now I see what you're talking about but I still think he's town. The things you use as an evidence of his scumminess are WIFOMy in their nature.
His behavior at the end of D1 may be coming from both town and scum mindset and we'll find it out only after seeing his flip or when the game will end.

I honestly feel like I'm laying a shitload of stuff on you to answer here but a heap of what you're saying I simply don't agree with.
I mean you're saying my assertion is WIFOMy and you've said that before.
What's WIFOMy about a case that's a pure misrepresentation? He followed it up later as well and seemed to be confused as to whether he scumreads me or townreads me.
What's WIFOMy about my assertion that his vote end of Day 1 didn't make sense? Do you see a good reason he could have voted me? Why is that WIFOM?

As of

ChriVi

, it's pointless to attempt to find explanation for their actions coming from a town mindset because there is none.
They've employed a nice playstyle that makes them lynched often when they're town but nets a perfect excuse for the scummy behavior when they're scum.

You've done this several times as well. Saying they're scummy because scum *could* do that, not because it's more likely. That is WIFOM.

The mask of randomly directed aggression and mindless wagon hopping matching their town meta makes people fall into the trap of considering them town just because it's their common town behavior despite this behavior is clearly anti-town play and by itself does not confirm anything.
All they need to do as a scum is to set up a row of 3 mislynches (that's what they just did) which will let them skate into endgame while surviving themselves and at LyLo they can try to win by using their common "I'm town, idiots, because it's my town playstyle to do scummy things" excuse.

Possibly. But if you're town I can't work with you unless you take a reasonable approach.
Anyway sorry this will have to be cut short because puppeh needs walking but seriously Nether... I'm into things like why you're reading me as town (we interacted - you seem to have the ability to change your mind which I'm prepared to see as town), why you're reading Dave as town beyond WIFOM, why you'r ereading Grey as town(if you are?), why you're reading ploben as town.... etc.
These things are really imprtant and I feel like I could get a straightforward answer from *most* players on things like this and I'm having trouble with you.

Can you do a readslist with reasons which are game-related - which refer to players previousl behaviour and why *you* think that's scummy?
Everyone has different ideas of why something is scummy and why it isn't.
That's really important.

[Taly]

Quick Check-In Post

@ChriVi, want to be more certain of Nether as I've said. He's still on my possible suspect list.

@talah, you just did all the work I was about to do on Nether for me... heh ;-;... The questioning you put up on me doesn't bother me. The more ambiguous my mental state is, the more ambiguous opinions people have on me. X_x

But, what is YOUR read on me - Talah?

@Nether, I've 1v1ed 4 people in this game so far. You, Pisskop, ChriVi and Grey - even though Chrivi and Grey weren't really as big or major, you're not the only person who has very different thinking here. lol

@Pisskop - What are your reads? You did a similar thing as Nether did at the beginning of this day, changing your read on Nether 180 degrees as he did to you. Do you have ANY other reads you'd like to give us? Like on HB, Talah, Dave, Grey, me??

[Netherspite]

@talah

1. My last post D2 was under the assumption

Kaboose

will flip town and the real scum is

Taly

.
I was terribly wrong here. My scumread on

Taly

was based on a couple of slight hints from their play + their manner of defense against my push D2. All of these was indirect evidences and I shouldn't have tunneled that hard.
I shouldn't have refused to look deeper into the empty slot either, while I still believe that everyone needs to have possibility to defend themselves and voting empty slot is bad practice I think in this specific case I could have been more convinceable and less stubborn.
If I would re-read into

Kaboose

instead of ignoring the chance they're scum until the replacement will come I'd possibly find him way more scummy than

Taly

and wouldn't tunnel the wrong person.
This is also why I don't think

Taly

is scum anymore. I resorted to nitpicking into really small things about

Taly

because I didn't see any better lynches yesterday. After some calm thinking during the night I realized that it was just tunneling and confbias that made me pushing him as scum.

2.

ChriVi

are different. With

Taly

it was a bunch of really small things. None of them were strong enough to scumread him really as I've explained above.

ChriVi

's scumslip is different. It's of the kind I've spotted in

vettrock

and that's why I trust in it way more.
The slip I'm talking about is not among the ones you listed. It is when they accused me _both_ as scum and as newbtown at the same time. Like they forgot they just voted me and said I'm the only one who should be scum (they said things like "vote nether and win this game finally" which can't have other meaning than they're 100% sure I'll flip scum) and started to say I'm just retarded newbtown who can't play this game (or something like that). The first kind of behavior is common when you're scumreading someone strongly and the second is common when you're townreading someone but considering them stupid. These two kinds of behavior are contradictory and the essence of the slip is they are faking both reads if they can't remember which one is correct.

3. The second point about

davesaz

(that he voted you in the end of D1 as a way of "doing nothing") is definitely WIFOMy. Because I honestly can see town doing that as well as scum. You say scum would do it to avoid voting both wagons. But why scum would do it if they realized it may appear scummy for that reason? But why wouldn't they do it if they realized that scum would avoid doing it to appear towny? etc.
If you wonder what reason would town have to vote you specifically, I'd personally do it if I were suspecting you at that point in the hope town will listen and switch asap (it's possible). I'd also do it as town if I considered both wagons town because I don't want to participate in the town lynch and we're having plurality lynch rule which would mean we won't have a no lynch anyway.
Case about misrepresentation is better but I hope you understand that misrepresentation could be just misinterpretation and thus not having any evil thought behind it.
Both these things are too weak to consider someone scum. As weak as were the reasons for my scumread on

Taly

(too bad I realized it too late).
What I don't understand though is why you tunnel

davesaz

for so long? Do you consider these things really strong scumtells?

4. As of my townreads, I've explained it somewhere I believe.

davesaz

- I can follow his logic and see it coming from a town mindset. Cases presented for scum!dave are not enough strong for me to reconsider my read on him.

GreyICE

- While scum can hardbus their buddy D1 in this setup I find it unlikely. May be I will reconsider my read on him later if I'll survive but at this point I'm like 90% sure he's town.

ploben

- His play D1 felt very towny. Hard to explain but the manner of posting, the scumhunting he did and overall performance made me strongly townreading him. However, today he is really underperforming and his "I'm not caring about this game anymore" does not look good. I won't scumread him based only on that but I find using such phrases not very good idea for the town because lurking scum can use such things to excuse their lurking and using such excuses as town makes it hard to distinguish between the two.

~Fixed Tags

[Netherspite]

Sorry, bold tag broken.

[talah]

This is also why I don't think

Taly

is scum anymore. I resorted to nitpicking into really small things about

Taly

because I didn't see any better lynches yesterday. After some calm thinking during the night I realized that it was just tunneling and confbias that made me pushing him as scum.

2.

ChriVi

are different. With

Taly

it was a bunch of really small things. None of them were strong enough to scumread him really as I've explained above.

ChriVi

's scumslip is different. It's of the kind I've spotted in

vettrock

and that's why I trust in it way more.

I'm butchering your quote here, but no. You're nitpicking on both.

The slip I'm talking about is not among the ones you listed. It is when they accused me _both_ as scum and as newbtown at the same time.

Show this.

[Netherspite]

100% sure I'm scum:

Can we lynch nether and finish the game already?

===

100% sure I'm just dumb:

Netherspite, you're dumb. STFU and die please.

I can't stand to listen to the mindless froth spewing from your shitty mouth hole any longer.

You call what you're saying "Sane"? I have a question: Have you ever played mafiascum before this game?

I've been assuming no cause I didn't figure someone could be /this/ fucking stupid about the game after their first attempt at it.

===

Not so sure I'm scum:

And yeah it's probably nethersprite or Pisskop, in that order.

Last scum is in nether or pisskop, pick one and I'll follow.

===

Jumping between different stances in a matter of few posts.
If this is not major scumslip I'm spanish ballet dancer.

[talah]

But, what is YOUR read on me - Talah?

Town, has been for a while, and you'd have to be contriving pretty hard to change that. I had the thought Nether did about the "subtle bussing" lynching vettrock instead of odd but ultimately it's not about cred it's about intent and results. You were happy enough with Kaboose pretty early on. If you'd decided to slack off as time passed I'd be worried but I'm not now and I'm slightly bemused as to the reasons other-town would want to lynch you in any case. I don't think you presented a threat as scum based on your entrance and the only problems I had with you over time were a bit of ambiguous speech which isn't all that important (as a rough example, today is Day 3 but I think you've referred a couple of times to "Day 1" meaning "Day 2" and a few other posts earlier which had intent but not accuracy - egh I can specify if you like).

Myself I intend to sit back and check out some answers now and come to a few conclusions but am happy to answer anything you like. Feel free.
Back on board full time after the weekend. Around-ish in the meantime.