White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

The complete lack of vote movement in this game at this point is just downright depressing.

I am not going to be available tomorrow morning, and afternoon availability is going to be dicey, please don't make it come down to me needing to make a last second switch.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.19

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen, Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

[Zachrulez]

So very many V/LAs!

Zack's point about Cheery does seem to be pretty spot-on from a look. That definitely makes me feel worse about cheery than before.

I think Aneninen was mixing me up with someone else there - in Elements Mafia (where all games are opens or semi-opens with unlimited private communication between anyone who chooses to) setup spec and attempts to break the game are pretty common, as are attempts to coordinate power roles to "solve" the game. I've generally been one of the advocates for actually scumhunting, though occasionally used what spec there was to my advantage, and when I moderated a game there, I tried to push the trend towards less "breakable" games by introducing safeclaims to the meta. The mafia won that game and town complained that safeclaims were unfair afterwards *facepalm*, but ideas for making the game less breakable have persisted, so I'm happy with that.

As for my team now, Aronis read part of this game but is still going. He thinks my BBT town read might be wrong, and also suspects ika, with CES being null and anti/tammy/anka being town reads.

I agree that CES's iso is difficult to read; I'm still trying to sort him.

What are your thoughts on Cheery Dog? It feels like you're only considering CES as a lynch choice but I don't see where CD lands on your reads save that one vague post I quoted above.

[Aneninen]

Catching up. Episode V – The Empire Strikes Back

Spoiler:

It is a dark time for the
Rebellion. Although the Death
Star has been destroyed,
imperial troops have driven th-

Sorry, that's not the correct Episode V.
It's this one:

(1) Zach's 674 – good point. In general, Antihero had been "flying under the radar" most of the time on Day1. Let's see whether he's done more Today.

(2) Oversoul, 675 –

"After the Aeronaut flip, I really have no clue about this game anymore. Tammy and I agree that CES rushing the game into night was weird and did not seem particularly town motivated, especially given Aero's town flip."

– I had the same feeling. (See my previous catch-up, (5)) And it was a definitely much more contentful "no clue"-post than Ankamius's 683. (

"I'm going to reset my reads and look at stuff. Probably tomorrow."

– no sign of any effort.)

(3) Regfan, 680 – You meant this post in 1119. To tell the truth, Wgeurts said (I'm paraphrasing it again)

"they look ok"

. I thought he meant "they look town" and I don't know why Psyche interpreted it as "they look competent". But if it's important I can still ask Wgeurts about it if he remembers that.
I hope he will, because he's just started helping me in reading this game.

(4) Ika, 685 –

"random gut thoughts: regafan is scum"

– Aeronaut had posted something similar before he got lynched. Hmm. Maybe this will be important if either Ika or Regfan flips.

(5) BBT, 687 –

"CES wasn't even the primary person rushing the lynch. Ika was. His timing for his 'activity' was scummy as fuck and yet nobody bats an eyelid because 'lol, it's ika.'"

– Show me Ika's corresponding posts, BBT!

(6) Zach-Ika interaction. A shortened and edited quote of the dialogue, happened around 695:

Ika: "BBT is confirmed not reading thread and has also claimed scum can we lynch him now?"
Zach: "You're not even voting for him."
Ika: "i know i want to hammer him. would you vote him if i voted first?"
Zach: "You just want to hammer period."
Ika: "not really? it was mostly for day 1 so we can move on. but you didnt answer my question, if i voted first would you vote too?"
Zach: " I'm not particularly interested in lynching BBT. You've said he claimed scum more than once, but I don't see it."
Ika: "i said he claimed scum, not more then once. anyway your town now"

Ika contradicted himself (about the hammer), then evaded the answer (about BBT claiming scum), and finally tried to appease Zach (by calling him town).
Backed by the fact that I strongly think Zach's town, Ika was blatantly scummy in this dialogue. (Anyone, especially Zach and Ika: if I misinterpreted this part, point it out, please!)

(7) And the Ika-BBT argument went on. (Most of Page29.) Ika looked definitely scummier (considering the fact that I've seen this gameplay from BBT quite a lot of times before). I wouldn't use the word "definitely" just as Elk did in 711, but he just noticed the same as I have by reading it (711 and 713). (Although I still wouldn't rule out completely the possibility of faking, see my previous catch-up (8) ) Post-edit: Elk explained 711' "definitely" in 731.

(8) CES's 714 –

"Aeronaut flipping town was an unpleasant surprise but it also makes Cheery Dog and Ankamius more likely to be scum and I don't see much reason to deviate from the course."

– I don't understand this. Indeed, Cheery Dog and Ankamius are more likely to be scum, but (unless I missed something while catching up) not because of the Aeronaut flip. They're more likely because of the Llamar flip. See my previous catchup, (4)! It feels off.

(9) CheeryDog, 716 –

"There's also the issue of BBT being the only person widely townread (except from ika apparently) that was not on the wagon, the kill coming off the wagon means absolutely nothing."

– Not everyone had been widely townread on the Aero-wagon, so saying that it means nothing is pigeon poop.

(10) Antihero, 718 – voting for my predecessor. He also wanted to get help from... other teams too. At first, it looks a weird idea. But, there's something more. How on Gods' Green Earth could he know whether the players belonging to the teams named by him are or aren't scum in this game? On the other hand, 727 looked like the town-Antihero pigeon poop I know.

(11) Ika, 720 –

"so GIF and I are considering switching games. who think yay and who thinks nay"

– Why exactly? (By the way, it seems that the switch has never happened.)

(12) Oversoul, 729 –

"Tammy says it isn't meta, but that she knows from experience BBT is capable of this type of play as scum."

– I'll check whether Tammy's posts match this sentence or not.

(13) Ankamius, 734 – quite a couple of reads, but no explanation about them. Yet he wanted Zach to detail his 695...

(14) Oversoul's 738 wall – ...I may read this later after I've finished catching-up. Okay?

(15) CheeryDog, 742 – scum-case on Regfan, based upon his team's opinion. If your case is still on, can you give some more details? I was unable to understand your post and I'm interested in it because there were two other players saying "Regfan is scum because of Gut-read". (By the way, not only Regfan but CES didn't understand this case, as for their next posts.)

(16) Zach, 743 – the question is. Have you played with Antihero before? 747 – voting for Ankamius. As for examining the players away from the Aero-wagon, there are good points. Although I don't agree with everything and I wouldn't rule out that there were no scums on the Aero-wagon at all. Still, yet another very town post from Zach.

(17) Ankamius, 752 – he hated that Regfan asked him in 745 about his 683. Actually I didn't like that 683 either. See (2) here! Also,

"If Aeronaut was so scummy, why would scum be off the wagon? Scum would just as easily have hopped on to get towncred."

– wait-oh. Getting town-cred for a

mislynch

?! How on Gods' Green Earth does that make sense!?

(18) Ika, 754 – voting for CES. And after a couple of BBT posts he says that BBT is a good player to vote for, in 759. Pigeon poop. And 761 and the next posts... I'll need more pigeons so as to feed them. Really.

(19) Okay, I don't have a proof and it's just a feeling but this Page31/32 Antihero/Zach discussion must be town-vs-town. (Oh, there is one proof. I remember getting involved with Antihero in a thing like this long ago and we both flipped town.)

(20) Tammy arrives, 796. Null in itself, let's see what happens later.

I'm on Page33, so almost there!

________

My reads now:
Theese players look town: Zach, Elk, Antihero, BBT, Regfan (??? but there're the gut-scumreads and Cheery's post, see the catchup above)
I don't know: Tammy, CheeryDog
Theese players look scum: Ika, Ankamius, Cogito Ergo Sum (??? and see the other spoiler about him!)

Keep in mind that my reads

still

can change because there are more pages ahead. I hope that I'll be able to finish catching-up tonight. Also, there are some questions in this catch-up and the answers for them may change my reads too!

Some answers.

Spoiler:

Which wall do you mean? 437 or 441? Because, after I've caught up I'll read it if needed.

441. 437 is quite a bit more meandering and not as good.¹
What did you think of the ikawagon?²

(1) That will happen but I want to finish catching-up first.
(2) Right now Ika looks very scummy, mostly because of the thing I mentioned in the recent catch-up, see (6). There are other things too, eg. (18) and some older things in my previous catch-ups. As for it's

wagon

, so far it has consisted of two names Today. If Page32–33 were the last page of the game I'd vote for him, but I need to see the remaining pages first.

Anti the only read in Anens reads section of the Post 1077 that I find scummy is the town-read on Elk since if he really did mix Elk up as someone else and believe that Elk was someone that "breaks games" as town then Elk voting people attempting to break the game here should have been a huge scum tell for him, not a reason to call him town.¹ I do like elements of his most recent catch up in Post 1106 specifically his mention of two votes being parked on him but him town reading both players that did so.² I'm willing to let him finish catching up but he needs to really speed it up.

I don't think Tammys "He stopped to mention something from the team thread" point of Anen is a town-tell though given the sheer amount that CES has pushed him to post teams thoughts in the thread. In fact I'm slightly bugged by his "Wgeurts checked the Aeronaut-wagon and a couple of pages of the game and said something like

"I don't know them personally but Regfan, Llamarable and CES look town, thus Aeronaut can be scum"."

element in Post 1077 given that Psyches answer when I asked him in Post 680 whether they wanted him to join the wagon becasue a) They town-read people on the wagon or b) They thought the players on the wagon were competent and his answer in Post 681 was effectively b while Anen's is a.³

Actually yeah, after typing all of that Anen is probably scum here too. Also don't like how his recent posts look like setting up to vote CES over CD here.⁴

(1) I've never townread Elk because of that off-site game. I had other reasons at that time (see my first catch-up, (5) ) and I have some later as well.

(2) I posted that vote-parking on a non-moving wagon is a scummy thing but in

that

particular case I wasn't sure about it because there weren't many things against Antihero or Elk. See 1106's (16).

(3) This has been explained in the catchup above, see point (3) there!

(4) That's not true. CheeryDog is in the "I don't know" cathegory right now (eg. although (9) in this catchup is a thing I didn't like). Cogito Ergo Sum is indeed one of my scumreads, but Wgeurts has just started to read this game and he says that I'm misreading CES.

[Tammy]

Except that

Kats

keeps bugging me to repost their questions since they didn't get answered.

@

Tammy

, why did you want to know if I'd received stuff for others than just gamma, and why did you think I might have been?

@

CES

, what is your actual case on me?

I don't understand the question. Are you asking me why I wanted to know if your teammates have been reading the game? If yes, because I wanted to know your teammates thoughts on the game.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(2) Right now Ika looks very scummy, mostly because of the thing I mentioned in the recent catch-up, see (6). There are other things too, eg. (18) and some older things in my previous catch-ups. As for it's wagon, so far it has consisted of two names Today. If Page32–33 were the last page of the game I'd vote for him, but I need to see the remaining pages first.

I was talking about the ikawagon at the end of Yesterday.

Ika is looking very likely town. I assume you haven't played any games with ika but the way you're approaching reading him is all wrong.

[Tammy]

I don't *care so much* and I'm not sure I actually implied so much so I'm not sure your interpretation.

Mafia is a team game however, and I do take other people's reads into account with mine. As far as I can remember, I am the absolute only person in this game who thinks you're scum. When every single other person is saying I'm wrong, I'm going to take a step back and consider their thoughts.

You care enough to not pursue the read. You can consider other people's thoughts, but if you don't believe them, then you should be pursuing your own read.

But, can you tell me what your cheery dog read is and why? That'd be swell.

I'm gonna say CD is town. Because CES is pushing him. And because I'm now unsure on Reg and he is also pushing him.

His recent interactions with you are complete bullshit by the way. I don't think he actually believes any of the crap he's spewing.

Well, you're wrong.

I 100% believe what I'm saying.

You don't see that I'm evaluating Reg's teams reads? I'm gonna go ahead and assume for arguments sake that you only skimmed what I said about Reg.

So, go read what I actually said.

I'm going to let you answer your question for yourself.

The Ika-BBT interaction are really starting to piss me off, fairly sure you're both town here, you're both not helping anyone by taking snide little comments towards the other person and you're making the thread a) More frustrating to read and b) More inflated making it harder for players/teams to keep up with. Quit it out, please or if you're really convinced the other is scum (You'd very likely be wrong) then make a big case post on it rather than having one line back and forths.

I'm beginning to see that nobody is going to listen to me about ika. I'm also sick of Titus screaming at me in PT now so whatever.

UNVOTE:

Here you are backing off ika because no one is listening. Why would you do that?

Beyond that, you've been playing mafia long enough that I shouldn't have to explain fundamental concepts to you. I will, but I feel like this is empty questioning. I'm clearly not town reading you. I'm clearly not done with my read on you; if you missed it you are in the leftovers pile of my reads. You clearly are not an option for today. Stepping back and considering the option I could be wrong and evaluating that is the smart thing to do. I doubt very seriously either of us are dying tonight, so this can wait.

Also, intersting here is that you use titus, your teammate, as a backup reason for removing your vote. Are we to conclude that you are using your teammates as a means to slide on and off of people?

What do you think of cheery dog using gamma as the force of his scum read on Regfan?

What about cheery dog aside from unflipped players pushing him reads town to you and why can't one or both be bussing?

~~~

Tbf I didn't read anenins catch ups that closely. I have a hard time with those type catchups and just noticed that interlude. I'll look back at what you referred to.

As far as it making sense because bbt is considering a you/ces team, I get that and it was one of the things that was floating around in my mind yesterday/today, but what is bugging me is how he came to that concern. It came from a conversation with cheery dog when cheery moved his vote from you to ces. The interaction just looks really oily, but I want to look at the evolution of that thought once again because something is rotten in the state of Denmark!

Also, Im getting ready to run some errands but I'll be back between 4-6 hours from now.

[Tammy]

That part after the ~~~ is supposed to be addressed to Regfan. I just woke up. :/

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Here you are backing off ika because no one is listening. Why would you do that?

Beyond that, you've been playing mafia long enough that I shouldn't have to explain fundamental concepts to you. I will, but I feel like this is empty questioning. I'm clearly not town reading you. I'm clearly not done with my read on you; if you missed it you are in the leftovers pile of my reads. You clearly are not an option for today. Stepping back and considering the option I could be wrong and evaluating that is the smart thing to do. I doubt very seriously either of us are dying tonight, so this can wait.

Also, intersting here is that you use titus, your teammate, as a backup reason for removing your vote. Are we to conclude that you are using your teammates as a means to slide on and off of people?

What do you think of cheery dog using gamma as the force of his scum read on Regfan?

What about cheery dog aside from unflipped players pushing him reads town to you and why can't one or both be bussing?

OK firstly, there are very clear differences here and I'm not sure how you're not able to see them.

I presented my case on ika. I pushed ika. I pushed ika fucking hard and nobody listened. Have you presented your case on me? No. Have you even so much as attempted to push me? No. That is a very clear difference. I tried. You have not.

Secondly, Titus was an afterthought. You can clearly see I first cite the reason of nobody listening to me

followed by

getting fed up of Titus screaming at me. Secondary thought.

Can you point to even a single other time where I have mentioned my teams reads? I don't think you can. So for you to even try and use this to the extent that I have used it against Reg is downright ridiculous.

They could be bussing, but I doubt it. Plus, I'm gonna stick with the simple reasoning that CD's wagon is being formed as a CW to CES. That much is pretty clear.

I have already stated that I'm having trouble reading CD. Like, a lot of his posts don't point me in the direction of either alignment. Therefore, at the moment, I'm using my reads on other players to help gauge my read on CD.

I get that and it was one of the things that was floating around in my mind yesterday/today, but what is bugging me is how he came to that concern. It came from a conversation with cheery dog when cheery moved his vote from you to ces.

Can you elaborate on this for me?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Which hypothesis do you consider more likely: "Regfan and I are scum" OR "Cheery Dog is scum"?

[ika]

1)I presented my case on ika. I pushed ika. I pushed ika fucking hard and nobody listened. Have you presented your case on me? No. Have you even so much as attempted to push me? No. That is a very clear difference. I tried. You have not.

2) Secondly, Titus was an afterthought. You can clearly see I first cite the reason of nobody listening to me followed by getting fed up of Titus screaming at me. Secondary thought.

3)Can you point to even a single other time where I have mentioned my teams reads? I don't think you can. So for you to even try and use this to the extent that I have used it against Reg is downright ridiculous.

just cus i want to be a dick again

1) dud you hardly pushed me, i just kept doign bs to your case and you kept doing the same thing. like its obvious you are not invested in trying to lynch me no matter what. also tammy has obviously shown no intrest in lynching you today so your overdefensive remakrs do show quite well

2) titus doesn't scream very often so i believe you are wildy taking out of proportion.

3) i prob could, cus i recall pointing it out and stating "why arent you lsitening"

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ika, do you want to vote Cheery Dog?

[ika]

Ika, do you want to vote Cheery Dog?

Depends. who do you think will die tonight and why?

(dont worry i will move my vote)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've been assuming Regfan for most of the Day although Tammy getting nightkilled wouldn't surprise me too at the. They're both never getting lynched (Tammy looks more unlynchable right now but either a CheeryDogscumflip or me flipping town should put most Regfan suspicion to bed anyway), have solid reads and the ability to push through lynches. It's hard to say much more than that when I don't even know how this Day will end; I'd probably still guess Regfan currently.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Less than one day till deadline! There should be more people posting right now.

(8) CES's 714 – "

Aeronaut flipping town was an unpleasant surprise but it also makes Cheery Dog and Ankamius more likely to be scum and I don't see much reason to deviate from the course.

" – I don't understand this. Indeed, Cheery Dog and Ankamius are more likely to be scum, but (unless I missed something while catching up) not because of the Aeronaut flip. They're more likely because of the Llamar flip. See my previous catchup, (4)! It feels off.

Imagine you have three suspects in a game with 1 mafia: player A is 50% likely to be scum, player B is 40% likely and player C is 10% likely. If we lynch player A and they flip town, player B is now 80% likely and player C is 20%; that's how it works - when a suspicious player flips town, everyone else becomes more suspicious, but especially those you thought were already suspicious previously. But also very concretely, if Aeronaut had flipped scum, I would've had a much easier time coming up with scum teams that don't include one or both of Cheery Dog or Ankamius because I only need to come up with 2 names, whereas currently I definitely couldn't name a scum team that misses out both that wouldn't greatly surprise me. The 'marblekill I was already expecting, especially with Regfan's weird Antihero suspicion at the time, so that didn't give me much pause (although it was a nice sign I was on the right track).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm going to bed now.

I don't want this to be some last-minute thing where scum can get away with using the time pressure as an excuse to place whatever vote they want.

[Tammy]

Here you are backing off ika because no one is listening. Why would you do that?

Beyond that, you've been playing mafia long enough that I shouldn't have to explain fundamental concepts to you. I will, but I feel like this is empty questioning. I'm clearly not town reading you. I'm clearly not done with my read on you; if you missed it you are in the leftovers pile of my reads. You clearly are not an option for today. Stepping back and considering the option I could be wrong and evaluating that is the smart thing to do. I doubt very seriously either of us are dying tonight, so this can wait.

Also, intersting here is that you use titus, your teammate, as a backup reason for removing your vote. Are we to conclude that you are using your teammates as a means to slide on and off of people?

What do you think of cheery dog using gamma as the force of his scum read on Regfan?

What about cheery dog aside from unflipped players pushing him reads town to you and why can't one or both be bussing?

OK firstly, there are very clear differences here and I'm not sure how you're not able to see them.

I presented my case on ika. I pushed ika. I pushed ika fucking hard and nobody listened. Have you presented your case on me? No. Have you even so much as attempted to push me? No. That is a very clear difference. I tried. You have not.

Secondly, Titus was an afterthought. You can clearly see I first cite the reason of nobody listening to me

followed by

getting fed up of Titus screaming at me. Secondary thought.

Can you point to even a single other time where I have mentioned my teams reads? I don't think you can. So for you to even try and use this to the extent that I have used it against Reg is downright ridiculous.

They could be bussing, but I doubt it. Plus, I'm gonna stick with the simple reasoning that CD's wagon is being formed as a CW to CES. That much is pretty clear.

I have already stated that I'm having trouble reading CD. Like, a lot of his posts don't point me in the direction of either alignment. Therefore, at the moment, I'm using my reads on other players to help gauge my read on CD.

It doesn't matter at all if I made a case or pushed you hard. I've stated my problems with you, and everyone thought I was wrong. Not only that I have only been in this game for a little more than a week. I don't have to state a case and push you to reconsider and evaluate to see if everyone else is right and I'm wrong. I think my goals since I came in here have been clear. I wanted to check out my town reads to make sure I felt good about them so that I could take their reads into account. You are not happening today. You were never on the table for today. Even if I were 100% convinced you were scum, you would still not be happening today. You've played mafia enough to know that your argument is silly.

It doesn't matter if Titus was an afterthought or not. It was there. Your argument is that bringing up your teammates reads without being asked is scummy. You used Titus as part of the reason you chose to unvote Ika. (I don't think it's scummy to bring up your teammates reads. In fact that's all part of team mafia, it's part of the entire point. You're supposed to work together as a team and taking their reads into consideration is a part of the whole process.)

Why didn't you answer what you thought of CD using gamma's read to push on CES?

Why are you using your reads on other players to gauge your read on CD? These other players are of unknown alignment to you. How would your reads on those players, who you could be absolutely wrong on, give you a read on CD?

Okay so for this counter wagon thing, let's take a look:

Vote Count 2.19

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen, Tammy

With 11 alive, it will take 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 25, 2015, at 4:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-25 16:30:00).

You think CES is scum, fine.

Regfan had been voting Cheery Dog since early in the day and only unvoted when he thought that one post seemed genuine.

You have zach as town. What do you think of him using Sotty as part of the reason he's pushing on Cheery and reading CES as town? I mean I realized since you asked him about his team's thoughts it's not inherently scummy, but what are your thoughts?

I'll talk about the other thing you asked in a minute.

[Tammy]

This is EXTREMELY atrocious. Gamma forcefully thinks that sort of "my procedure was bad and i'm alert to this and look over there that's what we OUGHT TO have done CLEARLY" is CONSIDERABLY more plausible to be coming from scum than town as a path of proactively expounding why what they did was bad and trying to persuade players that they're town.

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally

But Regfantown would definitely feel that way. They're pretty obvious comments for him to make.

Which goes with you encouraging him to

Gamma also didn't like his views about expecting for the scum flip yesterday that feel cocksure and squally, and that his remark ages ago about elk not being scum with aeronaut felt like an exemption not to vote him even though that's a fairly negligible thing.

Why would Regfanscum want a reason not to vote Aeronaut?

If you think Regfan is scum, doesn't Ankamius seem like a slamdunk scum buddy anyway? I very much doubt Regfanscum can afford to bus.

I think it might be something to with not wanting to vote elk, I'll bug gamma to redefine that one.

Nope. I'm tending to actually townread Ank.
and since he has now posted his "proof", and it wasn't trying to be a trust tell like I suspected when I asked for it, I think that's still more reason to have him as town.

However since you're trying to move me off my vote to someone that 'could' be a buddy, it's just what?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CES

Yeah, that vote isn't great by any means.

CD, can you just go over why you're voting CES for me? I'm not sure if I'm misinterpreting your vote but it sounds like you're voting CES because you think he is a buddy of Regfan?

I want to wait for Anen to finish catching up before this Day ends.

Regfan is doing what most scum do - trying to get read as town.

For example, his recent unvote of me about me being more genuine, and his teammates not thinking that's the case, that's an attempt to get on my good side after calling my post from teammates as in-genuine. His teammates reads giving the opposite opinion is making the read of me straddle the fence, and he could come back if other people were joining my wagon.

This is actually a really good point and something I haven't really paid a lot of attention to (mostly due to thinking Reg was obvtown for most of the game)

If you look at a lot of Regfan's posts, his team differ with him on a lot of opinions/reads. This allows him to reverse his reads quite quickly if he wants to because 'he's following his team.' What do you make of this CES?

Hmm. Regfan and CES make so much sense as well.

That's pretty much it, and the fact he tried to direct me off regfan to someone in his own scumlist told me it was likely enough that I could join the larger wagon.

This whole interaction is just so slimy.

A search of CES through CheeryDog's iso returns no suspicion until this vote. In fact at start of day when oversoul pointed out our suspicion on CES, he got an opposite feeling from how he behaved at end of day. The only thing I can't quite tell if it's regarding CES or Regfan is Post 1001.

But none of the motivation for any of this makes any sense whatsoever. Supposedly Regfan is scum for Post 843 and Post 921 because he was trying to get on Cheery's good side with the unvote which is so wtf I can't believe it was written with a straight face. Scum!Regfan would have no need whatsoever to unvote CheeryDog in the first place because the "I don't play well with others" looked genuine. Who would he be trying to impress there? CheeryDog wouldn't be one of the people that Regfan would be trying to ingratiate himself to if he were scum here, and he could endlessly tunnel CheeryDog and noone here would think anything of it because when Regfan is convinced of a read, he's convinced of a read. Note he did not also jump back onto CheeryDog when he relayed Zar's interpretation of that post and spent a couple of posts pushing psyche.

Like I could buy an argument that he unvoted in order to look like he was actually trying to figure out the game, but the he unvoted so that he could get on his good side and offered his teammate's opposing read so he could jump back on just doesn't make any sense. He wouldn't have to bring up Zar's interpretation to give him a reason to jump back on anyway. Nobody with any experience in this game needs an outside reason to change their mind and then change it back again. No one competent anyway because he could just do what he did do, decide that later posts didn't read genuine. The only reason scum do bring up their teammates reads is to make it look like they're discussing things with their team in order to look like a good townie, not so they can sneak back on a wagon they were reading as scum in the first place.

BBT's post where he says that CD's CES vote isn't good, while voting CES, reads just weird. And this point, which is actually really weak and doesn't make any sense whatsoever regarding Regfan and CES being a team here shouldn't have been such a good point that it reverses BBT's strong town read of Regfan. I have no idea why this point, by someone that BBT claims he can't read and is having trouble reading, is the one that makes BBT think that CES and Regfan are a team.

[Tammy]

Actually if anything, I'd expect more team input.

[Tammy]

Oh Regfan I thought you said within 15 hours. I'll be back in a bit; I need to do something.

[Tammy]

Actually meh never mind I don't feel like leaving.

[Ankamius]

Wisdom read part of the game and it looks like we're fairly synced so far.

[Ankamius]

Anen also scummed up his slot pretty well. The way he pushed my early posts looks dead on for scum seeing a prime mislynch target; I can't see it as town since his reads were specifically stated as vague despite how overblown they are.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up episode cubic root 216

Spoiler:

(1) Antihero, 810 –

"THAT'S classic scum ika."

– Can you give me some details?

(2) Ika, 812 – Oh, this, including the readlist! (Re-formatted by me)

"i havent been really reading the game gif and i agree that CES is scum though –– other then that everything else is meh (im drunk also atm but soering and tired so im streamline mode) –– your town

(he meant Ankamius)[/i] –– anti prob town –– phyce could be scum –– reg might be town –– elk prob scum –– everyone else i dont really care to sort or even see if they exist right now"[/i] – I don't really get it. Where these GIF's reads? Why is BBT not on the list? What's that Elk-read coming out of ...nowhere?

(3) Tammy's 813 –

"I would have bet money on marble being the nightkill last night. "

But she got into this game later... Tammy, had you been reading this game frequently before you arrived?

(4) Meta-based reads from Regfan, 814. Both CES and BBT were hard townread by him here. I only mention it because I saw in his latest post that CES was weak-town and BBT undecided. I want to see his read progression in his later posts. Regfan, was it 1089?

(5) Tammy, 819 – where did this CES scumread come from?

(6) Ankamius, 824 and nearby – I know it's a minor thing in itself, but he wanted Regfan and Tammy to check CES's

ISO

how he speaks about him and CheeryDog. If he really wanted to get an answer, why didn't he link some posts about the topic? It looks as if he had tried to make it harder for them to answer his question. Aaand he answers his own question (if I'm reading the thread right) in 838, without references. Pigeon poop.

(7) CheeryDog, 841

"The fact Aero flipped town and have gut feelings about the chances of other people also flipping town regardless of them looking bad, I think we need to start looking at lynching the stronger players to find our scum."

– That doesn't make much sense. Especially if I read that part of the post further.

(8) Ika, 841

"i honeslty at this point want to lynch CES/CD and if the game isnt over from there (cus right now im gutting on 1/both bgin scums)"

– and this clearly contradicts (2) (where did the Elk read go?) and the whole interaction with BBT. (I've just had an intuition that he didn't push BBT because if BBT flipped town after his push, he would be in a very bad situation.)

(9) BBT, 872 to Ika:

"If you end up flipping scum in this game, I fucking promise you I will push for your lynch every single game we play."

– Because of these sentences I don't think BBT's scum. I think I've read similar sentences before when he was scumreading me. As for Tammy's reaction, 874, do you have the same experience, Tammy?

(10) ... [I wanted to post something that just came into my mind but I got IRL distracted and when I returned to the screen I forgot it. So, it's just a reminder for myself. The chat was opened about the post 878. Aaaaand here comes the kitty again!]

Intermission.
I know it's irrelevant but I think you're gonna love this story.
On my right, my Sweetheart is slumbering. On my left, our kitty. Both of them wants to get stroked. When my Sweetheart wants me to stroke her back, my kitty wants the same, obviously. And when my Sweetheart asks me for stroking her hair, the kitty meows and wants his head to get stroked too.
They're even mirroring each other as they're lying in a similar pose.

(11) And now the whole Ika/BBT interaction changed into something else! Am I too paranoid about this? After all, it seems to be stopped as soon as others started posting again.

(12) On these pages (36–37) the game seems to get stalled. Could this be the case of Aneninen#Unexpected_Gamestall? If so, Wgeurts may be right about CES and I may be wrong.

(13) On the other hand, CES's 945 –

"A friendly reminder to the people on the wagon that you're sharing it with this scumbag. One slot in my scumlist being town does make the rest more likely scum. That's how probability works. I'm not going to suddenly stop trusting my scumhunting process; being wrong occasionally is just part of the game."

– is scummy. It looks as if he had run out of new reasons. On the other hand, he's scumreading Ankamius and I too think he's scum. And his vote is there. Would scums bus in this Setup on Day2? Can someone answer this? And in 954 (answering Ika) – what if he's building up a mislynch here?

(14) Ika, naked vote for BBT in 968. It seems to be inorganic after his discussion with CES. (Could CES/Ika/Ankamius be scums together? If so, bussing is involved.) 972 is not a good reason. Because of the site rules I'm not allowed to explain, why. By the way, Ika, 987: if it disturbs you that this game is PR-less, why did you choose this game?

(15) Tammy, 984 – so, do you think that the whole Ika/BBT was a town-vs-town?

(I arrived at this point, but still need to see the posts I've missed so far.)

(16) BBT, 994 – Elk posted before that they needed to work on the team replacements. Do you think that Ika's 987 was AtE? I think it was simply contentless.

(17) CheeryDog, 1001 – did I missed something or is this that team-scumread on Regfan?

(18) Ankamius, 1005 – ...and I remember that I made a link-list like this in another game... as scum.

(19) Tammy, 1017 – if I assume that you ISO everyone instead of reading the pages, am I right?

(20) CheeryDog, 1018 – Wait-oh, weren't you scumreading Regfan? Did you just jump on the biggest wagon?

(21) Zach, 1029 – Good question! (Although it might have been a result of a token speculation somewhere else)

(22) CES, 1041 (and some related posts) – am I the only one who doesn't understand that CES and CheeryDog are talking about Cheery's Regfan-read while they're voting each other?

(23) Prods in 1048. Maybe I should check whether they were active elsewhere.

(24) Ankamius, 1065 –

"So basically, CES is town because nothing indicates scum."

– is that all about him?

At this point I'm very tired so I may miss things. If that happens, sorry in advance.

But I still want to finish catching up tonight

, because tomorrow I may have a busy day and the Deadline is getting close.

No, sorry, I'm too tired, it's 1:15 at night here. But I'm almost there and I hope that I don't miss a lot of things in the new posts now.

But, I remember this:
CES, you asked about the Ika. Because of the Site Rules I'm only allowed to say this: all the things I know about him (which is not much, I must admit) only strengthens my scumread.
As for his Day1-wagon. Because I think he's scum I'm more concerned about those late votes on the Aero-wagon, especially since he was on V/LA.

Short summary. I'll post a more detailed readlist tomorrow.

Ika and Ankamius seem to be the scummiest. I'd lynch any of them.
As for CES and CHeeryDog – I'm mentioning them because they're the major wagons now.
The scummiest thing about CES is his late-Day1 gameplay and there were other things too. But Wgeurts said that my read is bad on him.
I, myself, unsure about CheeryDog, although a couple of things about his recent play are scummy. (See above!)

Can someone summarize the case against CES and against CheeryDog for me?

Most preferably, Zach, BBT or Antihero – they look very town and they're on either of those wagons.

Before going to bed I'll ask Wgeurts in the Team Topic whether he has anything about Ika/Ankamius/CES/Cheery. Although, another team mate asked for his reads so I don't know whether he'll have time for me. (Or how many pages he's read so far.)

VOTE: Ika
Reasons above.

[Tammy]

I don't understand any of your questions to me Anenin.