White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.08

Aneninen (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez
Ankamius (2) - Aneninen, theelkspeaks
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - BlueBloodedToffee
Regfan (1) - ika

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

With 9 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 11, 2015, at 12:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-11 12:00:00).

[Aneninen]

Checked. No parallel activity from him at all. Therefore, his absence is a null-tell.

If he was posting elsewhere, I would lynch him posthaste. Regfan did once just stop posting while hydraing with me as scum and I can see him being less motivated than normal as scum in this situation.

Yeah, if he were posting elsewhere, that would be a serious scumtell. (Or at least, I've already caught scum via examining paralell activity.)

By the way, if I'm correct, CD spent a token for scum and flipped town. Is this piece of information worth anything useful now?

If you spend a single token, there's about a 60% chance that it does nothing. Unless we think 4+ people spent scum tokens on this game, that is what happened.

So, as far as I can understand, that's a null-info now, isn't it?

Appeal_to_Authority
Being experienced is not a proof for not being survivalist.

1) That's not actually an appeal to authority since my experience is relevant and 2) he's obviously making a valid point.

Yet I've seen experienced players freaking whilst being scumread. (Although that can be faked too.) By "he's" in (2) did you mean BBT?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Are you actually accusing ika based on comparing him to just a scum game of his? That's the scummiest use of meta I've seen in a long time.

P-edit: yes, yes and yes (do I seem like the type that would freak out?).

[Aneninen]

Are you actually accusing ika based on comparing him to just a scum game of his? That's the scummiest use of meta I've seen in a long time.

No. I'll rephrase it then:
I've had a scumread on him regardless of his meta. However, because I noticed that Matrix 14 would end soon, I waited for its finish. If he had flipped town there, I would have had a bit of

town

meta on him that I can use and I would have start thinking about "what if I'm wrong?" (Actually it was you who asked this in 1130:

"I assume you haven't played any games with ika but the way you're approaching reading him is all wrong."

) Since he flipped scum there, Matrix 14 is

not

a piece of useful town-meta on him, therefore it doesn't affect significantly my original read. (As for Matrix 14, he hammered twice there, which is parallel to this game. However, he asked random questions earlier, which is not parallel.)

In short: Matrix 14 didn't weaken my original read, but it could have done so if he had been town there.

Why is Ika town?

[ika]

well the most blatant and obvious one would be that im VT here and not an sk? and that this setup does not have a place for sk?
like if your really going to compare sk!ika to vt!ika then you have a lot to learn.
sk vs scum team are 2 very different things and i take both very differently. likewise sk vs town have 2 very different atmospheres.
so to be blunt: trying to use an SK game of mine to apply it to a game where sk can not exist in attempts to meta me is very stupid and weak.
like if you really want to knwo my self meta all you have to do is ask. i openly state what it is (based off what people put as my "meta")

That's not the point. I know that SK =/= Mafia, although there are similarities, since neither of them wins with the town.

The point is that I put my read on you on hold because I realized that Matrix 14 would end soon. Of course I didn't read the game

thoroughly

and there was a resonable chance that I'm misreading you and MonkeyMan is a trolling SK. Had you flipped town there, that would have changed a lot here. (Similar Ika-posts as town ---> probability of Ika is town and I'm misreading you. However, similar Ika-posts as SK ---> doesn't contradict my scumread on you.)

anenin, whats your personal read on me?

I explained my scumread in my catchups, but okay, I'll recapitulate the most important things.
1077 (5) – random questioning out of early gamephase, in the middle of another conversation. (Eg. in Matrix 14 you posted such things much earlier.)
1077 (12) – posting that you want to perform a slayer's gambit is pigeon poop. (But okay, what have you achieve or what did you want to achieve by that?)
1128 (6) – that conversation is the cornerstone. You posted that BBT had been claiming scum and avoided to answer Zach's questions about it. You were urging a BBT-lynch but without voting for him. Also, what's with your hammers? Hammered twice in Matrix 14...
1128 (7) and basicly everywhere. – your constant fight with BBT, which has lead nowhere but changed shape around 878. (I'm not sure that BBT's push is genuine and you're scum or both of you are scums and faking, but the fact that noone pushed the other one

too

hard suggests me the latter one.)
Also, the fact that you appeared on the CES-wagon (...while fighting with BBT all the time), moved to BBT in 2.13 (at that time there were no other votes there), and ended up on the CD-wagon. (2.25)

i have this odd vibe that one scum is on wagon
one scum is not voting
one scum is just off wagon entirely
VOTE: regfan
i want to lynch this cus i dont trust the 2 competing wagons given how the others haev been

Okay, according to your reads, Regfan is the "not voting" one. Who's the on-wagon and the off-wagon scum?

first one:

have you looked at my town games as well? have you looked at my scum games? have you actualy tried to figure out my alignment outside of that sole game? have you actually considered asking me about my meta?

second one:

first: and its not really alignment indicative as i have done it as both town and scum
second: seeing how it never came to fruition, nothing.
third:
on bbt: i do it just cus it make the game intresting, aslo given how he did more or less the same thing in robber at casino game i find that doing the same thign to be a fun game and push him to either lose it or suck up and admit he is wrong.
on hammers: who doesnt like hammers?
final: if thats the case why are you not pushing a lynch on us? like your diconnect of who your voting vs who you think is scum is like horrendis

third one:

lets play a game: if its the case who do YOU think it is?

[ika]

annen im also going to make it blunt right here:

if you think me/BBT are scum why are you voting ank? do you see how bad thats shows in mindset connections?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If he had flipped town there, I would have had a bit of

town

meta on him that I can use and I would have start thinking about "what if I'm wrong?"

It's utterly trivial for you to find some ikatown meta and look at it.

Instead of scummily implying that ika is scum like so:

Also, what's with your hammers? Hammered twice in Matrix 14...

you could've considered that the way ika's going about it makes it unlikely to be an ikascum thing or you could've looked at almost any ikatown game and found out that it was so. It's not even like his hammer this game was problematic, so this is the only way you could make it seem scummy.

[Aneninen]

first one:
have you looked at my town games as well? have you looked at my scum games? have you actualy tried to figure out my alignment outside of that sole game? have you actually considered asking me about my meta?

I tried to use a kind of

semi-direct

meta to sort you out in

this particular

game. According to the site rules I can't tell anything else about meta-ing you but okay, let's see the question I'll ask in this very post below!
(I'm afraid, if you two think that my attitude on this question is bad, remind me to give you an explanation post-game. Because I'm feeling that I'm doing something in the wrong way and any of you could give me some advice, but I'm not allowed to ask for advice because of ...other things. And I hope it made sense.)

second one:

first: and its not really alignment indicative as i have done it as both town and scum
second: seeing how it never came to fruition, nothing.
third:
on bbt: i do it just cus it make the game intresting, aslo given how he did more or less the same thing in robber at casino game i find that doing the same thign to be a fun game and push him to either lose it or suck up and admit he is wrong.
on hammers: who doesnt like hammers?
final: if thats the case why are you not pushing a lynch on us? like your diconnect of who your voting vs who you think is scum is like horrendis

(1) not the questioning in itself. The fact that it came unusually late.
(2) okay.
(3) I can't see how that make sense. Can you rephrase it? What was your goal? What's been your conclusion?
(4) and what if hammering is also a WIFOM that scums can produce? I mean, "tending to hammer townies is so scummy that no actual scum would ever do it"?
(5) and also your later question. Ankamius has done nothing Today because of which I want to change my read on him. It's also possible that either you or BBT are scums with him. I'm not the only one in this game (or in any games) who's interacting with a scumread of them while voting for another scumread.

lets play a game: if its the case who do YOU think it is?

I don't like that you've just avoided my question. In spite of this, here are my answers.
The scum on my wagon is Ankamius, the one who off-votes is BBT or you (because you said "one is off"), the not voting one is Regfan (only because the other possibility would be CES).
If I assume that Ankamius is town and I'm misreading him, the scum must be Zach (and I'm misreading him, however, he's appeared on both wagons Today), the other two names are unchanged.

And now, your answers, please!

If he had flipped town there, I would have had a bit of

town

meta on him that I can use and I would have start thinking about "what if I'm wrong?"

It's utterly trivial for you to find some ikatown meta and look at it.

See above!
But okay, show me a town-Ika and a Mafia-Ika, please! (I'm asking you because Ika could manipulate me by choosing his games.)

Also, as far as I can see, you're town-reading Ika because of his meta. (Am I right?)
Show me the posts why I should townread him in

this particular game

.

[Antihero]

blah

v/la until monday

[ika]

b/c im not planning on quoting it and it entierty for annen:

first: ???
second:
1) doesnt change that the questions are not alignment indicative
3) my goal is to give me something to do in my boardom time
4) wifom argument is full of wifom.
5) but your argument that me/bbt are both scums majory looks wrong with who your voting. like you should be pushing us no?

reg/BBT/one of you/elk

would you like me to link you to like every town game i have? im not picky on them. i can do likewise with scum games. the fact you are continuing to dodge me in such manner makes me think you know im town yet you are stawmanning to scum read me

[Zachrulez]

does anyone else have this nagging feeling that regfan is scum right now whos doing jack shit cus nobody suspect him atm?

On the subject of Regfan.

Regfan, Sotty is curious about what your team's preferred games were.

This was asked for a reason. I don't think Regfan ever responded to it. Whether he missed it or pretended it didn't exist... who knows?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will read what I have missed tomorrow probably; it's late and I'm tired.

[Regfan]

Really sorry guys but RL has been a bitch as of late. I'll get to this tonight (Probably 8ish hours from now).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If you're scum, you should just bus your buddies. They'll understand.

[Aneninen]

(answers for my post)

first: ???
second:
1) doesnt change that the questions are not alignment indicative
3) my goal is to give me something to do in my boardom time
4) wifom argument is full of wifom.
5) but your argument that me/bbt are both scums majory looks wrong with who your voting. like you should be pushing us no?

(edited by me)

the fact you are continuing to dodge me in such manner makes me think you know im town yet you are stawmanning to scum read me

First: what can't you understand here?!

Second:
(1) you're ignoring all the time that I'm talking about the

timing

of your questions, not the questions themselvs.
(3) you're trying to explain that you were only having fun or whatever, but you're ignoring that I've been talking about with your interactions with BBT and Zach. Those are everything but NOT trivial.
(4) you asked "Who doesn't like hammers?" I said "hammering is a WIFOM that scums can produce" and you answered "WIFOM argument is full of WIFOM" – Whut?!

As for your meta. I randomly picked these:
Micro 411 (town-Ika) – a bit more funny-Ika than here, the posting style is similar, although maybe a bit longer posts towards Ika's lynch (maybe irrelevant?)
Mini Theme 1629 (scum-Ika) – maybe a bit more funny-Ika than here, but the posting style and the amount of useful info is roughtly the same.
(I'll examine this game for BBT too, because he also was scum there.)

That didn't help me a lot, although these metas are telling that you can do the same as town and as scum.
But I

still

don't understand why I should consider you town in

this particular

game. (Where have I strawman-ed, by the way?) Your ISO

here

is full of scummy pigeon poop. I've posted a lot about it but here are a few more examples.

– In early game you were scumreading Elk. But where is your vote? Nowhere!!! (And you're FoS-ing me because I'm voting for someone else while interacting with you? WTF!)
– I've just checked a search for the string "aero" in your ISO. Eight results. EIGHT! Five in quotes from other players. Two (misspelled) are your votes. (One is a double-quote on your vote.) So, you hammered a player on whom you didn't post anything. You even unvoted him once so as to hammer later. I really don't understand WHY anyone finds this town-ish! (Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)
– in 754 you voted for CES. Yet again, where's the case? As far as I can see, that's the FOURTH time the "CES" string appears in your ISO. It seems you're just going for a lynch, regardless of anything.

Frankly, need I go on with this?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ika

I still think Ankamius is scum too but now I really would like everyone to consider these things I've posted. I'll examine BBT next. (Regardless of Wgeurts's opinion.)

[ika]

(answers for my post)

first: ???
second:
1) doesnt change that the questions are not alignment indicative
3) my goal is to give me something to do in my boardom time
4) wifom argument is full of wifom.
5) but your argument that me/bbt are both scums majory looks wrong with who your voting. like you should be pushing us no?

(edited by me)

the fact you are continuing to dodge me in such manner makes me think you know im town yet you are stawmanning to scum read me

First: what can't you understand here?!

Second:
(1) you're ignoring all the time that I'm talking about the

timing

of your questions, not the questions themselvs.
(3) you're trying to explain that you were only having fun or whatever, but you're ignoring that I've been talking about with your interactions with BBT and Zach. Those are everything but NOT trivial.
(4) you asked "Who doesn't like hammers?" I said "hammering is a WIFOM that scums can produce" and you answered "WIFOM argument is full of WIFOM" – Whut?!

As for your meta. I randomly picked these:
Micro 411 (town-Ika) – a bit more funny-Ika than here, the posting style is similar, although maybe a bit longer posts towards Ika's lynch (maybe irrelevant?)
Mini Theme 1629 (scum-Ika) – maybe a bit more funny-Ika than here, but the posting style and the amount of useful info is roughtly the same.
(I'll examine this game for BBT too, because he also was scum there.)

That didn't help me a lot, although these metas are telling that you can do the same as town and as scum.
But I

still

don't understand why I should consider you town in

this particular

game. (Where have I strawman-ed, by the way?) Your ISO

here

is full of scummy pigeon poop. I've posted a lot about it but here are a few more examples.

– In early game you were scumreading Elk. But where is your vote? Nowhere!!! (And you're FoS-ing me because I'm voting for someone else while interacting with you? WTF!)
– I've just checked a search for the string "aero" in your ISO. Eight results. EIGHT! Five in quotes from other players. Two (misspelled) are your votes. (One is a double-quote on your vote.) So, you hammered a player on whom you didn't post anything. You even unvoted him once so as to hammer later. I really don't understand WHY anyone finds this town-ish! (Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)
– in 754 you voted for CES. Yet again, where's the case? As far as I can see, that's the FOURTH time the "CES" string appears in your ISO. It seems you're just going for a lynch, regardless of anything.

Frankly, need I go on with this?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ika

I still think Ankamius is scum too but now I really would like everyone to consider these things I've posted. I'll examine BBT next. (Regardless of Wgeurts's opinion.)

1) well then there not much i can say i dont care to look at timing of shit. the timing is moot to me
3) ok so? like my interatcions with bbt as i have stated are also form a past game. zachs interactions are more or less me interacting with someone who i think is town? otherwise i dunno whatline of question you are questionign me on
4) yup, i can link you more town games of where i do it then scum games of i do it. Your entire point is pretty much WFIOM by your own admission no?

i think the fact that theres a major diffrence in /how/ i go about it. yes about 99% of the things i do are non-alingment indicative but either:
A) your missing the point of what makes me town and scum at most times
B) your just horribale at metaing me and fail to realzize it

on elk: does each suspicion have to be backed by a vote? am i just allowed to be annoyign and call someon scummy w/o stating crap?
on areo: welcome to day fucking 1, on day 1s i can give less shit about who gets lynched then i care for
on CES: have you seen me as either alignment make cases or really give out reason? cus unless if you reallyhave proper evidence to back it thats a faulty reason. i dont do cases, i dont do shit. i jsut dont give fucks

yes you could go on cus if this is wgrt stating im scum i want you to tell him to kindly STFU and learn to properly meta someone and do you own work.

however i would be glad to get lynched here. ive been needing to swap with players

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)

Do you really believe this, Anen?

[Aneninen]

1) well then there not much i can say i dont care to look at timing of shit. the timing is moot to me
3) ok so? like my interatcions with bbt as i have stated are also form a past game. zachs interactions are more or less me interacting with someone who i think is town? otherwise i dunno whatline of question you are questionign me on
4) yup, i can link you more town games of where i do it then scum games of i do it. Your entire point is pretty much WFIOM by your own admission no?

i think the fact that theres a major diffrence in /how/ i go about it. yes about 99% of the things i do are non-alingment indicative but either:
A) your missing the point of what makes me town and scum at most times
B) your just horribale at metaing me and fail to realzize it

on elk: does each suspicion have to be backed by a vote? am i just allowed to be annoyign and call someon scummy w/o stating crap?
on areo: welcome to day fucking 1, on day 1s i can give less shit about who gets lynched then i care for
on CES: have you seen me as either alignment make cases or really give out reason? cus unless if you reallyhave proper evidence to back it thats a faulty reason. i dont do cases, i dont do shit. i jsut dont give fucks

(1) You're right about one thing. That's not a brutal tell

in itself

. But it's still there. Whether you call it moot or not.
(3) I still don't understand why I should townread you because of your interactions with BBT and Zach.

You're telling that I'm horrible at meta-ing players. So, you're town because I'm horrible at meta-ing.

Who's strawmaning the other one then?!

On Elk. No, you needn't back every suspicion with a vote. But, again, take this. You call someone scum without voting him (in fact, without voting at all) and noone bats an eye. I call you scum while voting for Ankamius (who's another scumread) and everybody loses their minds. How on Gods' Green Earth does that make sense?

On Aero. I'm re-quoting you here:

"welcome to day fucking 1, on day 1s i can give less shit about who gets lynched then i care for"

Again. Why. Anyone. Thinks. That. Ika. Is. Town. IN. THIS. PARTICULAR. GAME. ?.

As for your reasoning about CES. See the gif and my answer above!

yes you could go on cus if this is wgrt stating im scum i want you to tell him to kindly STFU and learn to properly meta someone and do you own work.

The first part was gross indeed. Wgeurts-reasons are don't count, as for your case, do they?

however i would be glad to get lynched here. ive been needing to swap with players

And this is AtE at best.

________

(Especially since Aero expressed that because of being away he might post more later... well, that never could happen.)

Do you really believe this, Anen?

Yes.
I've already seen scums shutting down a Day so as to prevent someone from posting.
Check out Aeronaut's last post. He asked for more time and promised that he would post more later.

Also, CES.
I've got a feeling that you're doubtful about everything I post. I think it's because you've wanted to sort out this slot but – maybe becasue of Pshyche? – you've been thinking all the time that I must be scum. Am I right? If so, put that prejudice away for a short while and examine my reads again.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes.
I've already seen scums shutting down a Day so as to prevent someone from posting.
Check out Aeronaut's last post. He asked for more time and promised that he would post more later.

Do any of Aero's previous posts suggest that as a plausible scum motive? Do you really think ika, if he was scum, was motivated by that?

[Aneninen]

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

does anyone else have this nagging feeling that regfan is scum right now whos doing jack shit cus nobody suspect him atm?

As opposed to everyone who suspected him D1 and D2?

Why are you concerned about my Ika-scumread anyway?

Because I don't see how elk being lynchbait = Zach and ika must be scum.

i want to lynch this cus i dont trust the 2 competing wagons given how the others haev been

You're town reading Anen and Ank?

so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan

This is classic scum. FOS buddy (CES) vote town (Regfan)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

does anyone else have this nagging feeling that regfan is scum right now whos doing jack shit cus nobody suspect him atm?

On the subject of Regfan.

Regfan, Sotty is curious about what your team's preferred games were.

This was asked for a reason. I don't think Regfan ever responded to it. Whether he missed it or pretended it didn't exist... who knows?

Anen thinking myself and ika are scum together is nothing short of comical.

His town read on CES makes no sense either.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

By writing "scum" instead of "ikascum" and "a townie" rather than "Aeronaut", you're hiding behind generalities. I literally asked you to try and apply your theoretical point to the actual game. I would've expected ika to hammer regardless of his alignment and I don't think Aeronaut's reads would've made a meaningful impact given his posting history this game.

[Zachrulez]

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

So ummm, what about Elk who voted on that wagon with minimal reasoning knowing that ika would hammer?

[Aneninen]

so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan

This is classic scum. FOS buddy (CES) vote town (Regfan)

Let me remind everyone of the full post:

so far my lynch pool is currently compiled of CES/regfan
i would do BBT for lolz but anyone else atm i have no intrest in

I wonder who's the buddy then.

I can easily imagine a scum hammering a townie before they post their detailed reads.

By writing "scum" instead of "ikascum" and "a townie" rather than "Aeronaut", you're hiding behind generalities. I literally asked you to try and apply your theoretical point to the actual game. I would've expected ika to hammer regardless of his alignment and I don't think Aeronaut's reads would've made a meaningful impact given his posting history this game.

So, are you saying that I should think that it's NOT an alignment tell about Ika that he voted, unvoted and hammered a player he hadn't been talking about before?
Why do you think that Aeronaut wouldn't have posted anything useful later?
Also, it seems that whenever I post about Ika you grab a piece out of my case so as to explain me that I'm wrong. His hammer is not the

only

thing why I have a scumread on him.
But, I'm asking you once again: show me the town motivation behind Ika's posts.