White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[theelkspeaks]

Elk, can you explain Anen town read?

I'm struggling to swallow the fact you don't have a read on Anti or Regfan either.

It's not that I don't have a read on Anti and Regfan, it's that sometimes they feel town and sometimes they feel scum, so it's hard to sort them out.

As for Anen, it's that a lot of the things that he mentions as feeling scummy in his catching-up seem reasonable to me, and it feels like he's one of the players in this game trying the hardest to actually scumhunt.

[theelkspeaks]

EBWOP: Also I stole a pagetop from Equinox, so enjoy your drink

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It doesn't give me pause because I really am convinced you're scum.

There is another reason and I'll share when the time is right.

PEdit - Elk, can you quote some posts from Anti and Reg that make you think they might be scum?

[theelkspeaks]

Know CD is probably the best place to throw down a vote given a) I still didn't like his jump on Llama b) I've got several town reads making him more likely scum via PoE and c) The scum-token usage makes him (significantly apparently) more likely to be scum but feel like that would be conceding that CESs early scum read owned me this game already and that's not something I feel like doing, not while we have this much time left anyway.

My team still thinks Aeronaut fits wall-flower scum and that there isn't any real transition in his reads, just questions that try to make him seem contributive, Empires not as bothered as I am about the "Zach v BBT" is SvT saying it could just be bad play (and admittedly he's kind of right) but the real kicker is that he's been very active elsewhere on the site yet hasn't commented on this game despite there being a lot of content since - lack of popping in to comment on Elks super town post reads more like him waiting to see where people would head next. There's a little more to this too but I'll go into that later if needed.

Vote: Aeranaut

Here's one example of a thing I don't like from Reg - his commentary on CD here feels a bit forced/strategic, and this post looks even worse after the townflip. I'm not good at explaining this particular /thing/ that he's doing here, so if the words "forced/strategic" aren't clear I can try to clarify. I'll discuss anti in my next post, but my roommates are getting ready for dinner right now.

[Zachrulez]

So very many V/LAs!

Zack's point about Cheery does seem to be pretty spot-on from a look. That definitely makes me feel worse about cheery than before.

I think Aneninen was mixing me up with someone else there - in Elements Mafia (where all games are opens or semi-opens with unlimited private communication between anyone who chooses to) setup spec and attempts to break the game are pretty common, as are attempts to coordinate power roles to "solve" the game. I've generally been one of the advocates for actually scumhunting, though occasionally used what spec there was to my advantage, and when I moderated a game there, I tried to push the trend towards less "breakable" games by introducing safeclaims to the meta. The mafia won that game and town complained that safeclaims were unfair afterwards *facepalm*, but ideas for making the game less breakable have persisted, so I'm happy with that.

As for my team now, Aronis read part of this game but is still going. He thinks my BBT town read might be wrong, and also suspects ika, with CES being null and anti/tammy/anka being town reads.

I agree that CES's iso is difficult to read; I'm still trying to sort him.

I have no reads?

Have you been reading my posts?

It's pretty clear that I'm scumreading you/CES/Anka in varying order, and townreading BBT/Anen.

Zach is still in the middle, hard to decide how I feel about him.

My god. You sat out the deadline but NOW you're suspicious enough of CES to vote him.

KILLITKILLITKILLITKILLIT.

[theelkspeaks]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

you had your shot. twice.

you blew it.

sheep me.

This is one of anti's worst posts. Also his rage in general doesn't seem town-ish, but I've seen players on both sides of the aisle rage, so I can't say for sure.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.10

Aneninen (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez
ika (3) - Aneninen, theelkspeaks, BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

With 9 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 11, 2015, at 12:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-11 12:00:00).

Moderator Comments

Antihero is V/LA until May 4.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Please answer my questions from 1583, elk.

(You can skip the last one.)

[theelkspeaks]

Also, Anen didn't mention this

Does that mean you agree with Aneninen's case?

Also, I asked you some questions:

Mostly on a whim, I thought it might be useful to see the progression of votes over time, and it turned out some interesting thoughts.

When? During the Night?

What do you think of Ank unvoting me near the end of Yesterday? What do you think of the Cheery Doglynch?

Bonus questions: do you think Ank's less scummy now? Did you think ika was scummy previously?

Yes, I'm agreeing with the majority of Anen's case there - I disagreed with one or two of his interpretations but agreed with it as a whole, at least.

The ModISO read happened right before I voted Anka, it was an instaneous vote after reading it. Ank's unvote on you at the end of yesterday is a low-grade scummy action to me. The Cheery dog lynch makes Regfan look bad as I stated above.

Ank hasn't really done anything to redeem himself yet.

[Ankamius]

I like how theelkspeaks has stated multiple times that my votes are so horrendously bad to deserve an autovote yet has never actually explained why yet.

[Regfan]

Can't apologise more to my team and you guys, really not getting any time to get on the internet to get to this game, will change tomorrow as I've taken a half day at work so I can carve time out for this when I get home.

[Antihero]

I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.

If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.

you had your shot. twice.

you blew it.

sheep me.

This is one of anti's worst posts. Also his rage in general doesn't seem town-ish, but I've seen players on both sides of the aisle rage, so I can't say for sure.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this

third day THIRD TIME NOW MY WAGON'S BEEN COCKBLOCK COUNTERWAGONED WITH A LOSER AND YOU'RE DRIVING IT, SCUMLORD

[Antihero]

HOLY FUCK

THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA

HERE'S SCUM IKA:

(credit to tth for links)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60729
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60599
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60340

THIS IS NOT ANY OF THOSE

OBVIOUSLY

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we not do meta.

How about you provide reasoning based on this game for why ika isn't scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also Elk, can you expand on what you don't like about the post you quoted from Anti.

[Antihero]

Can we not do meta.

How about you provide reasoning based on this game for why ika isn't scum?

for IKA, yes we can

he's THAT predictable

Spoiler:

let's see....

cute and fluffy: 125 pages, 26 ika posts
doa: 136 pages, 27 ika posts
pyp: 64 pages, 9 ika posts

this game: 65 pages, 163 ika posts

ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER
ONE OF THESE THINGS JUST DOESN'T BELONG
CAN YA' TELL ME WHICH THING IS
NOT
LIKE
THE
OTHER

by the time that i finish this song?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about, for arguments sake, you provide reasons for ika being town in this game (other than 'he posts a lot')

[Antihero]

wait a second, forgot about spring waltz

48 pages, 29 ika posts

holy shit, is that a record for him?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you can show me ika is town this game, not based on meta, I'll join the Anen wagon because it's town as fuck.

[Antihero]

he posts a lot

seriously, he doesn't do that as scum. it's almost a trust tell at this point.

[Antihero]

If you can show me ika is town this game, not based on meta, I'll join the Anen wagon because it's town as fuck.

can you show me something other than quote stripe-y sniping that actually makes a compelling case for ika being scum (that doesn't revolve around "ika's a troll" because i already knew that)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Anti, you disappoint me.

I have stated multiple times why I think ika is scum.

[Antihero]

– first of all, I must point out something. In 1435 I told that I would post more about Ika a couple of days later. Noone has asked anything about that. How is it possible?

– I won't repeat everything I wrote in my catch-up posts. I only elaborate one thing, his interactions with BBT. It has been going on throughout the whole game, but as posted in (11) of my last catch-up, it suddenly stopped there with no conclusions. I had assumed they're faking (in my 4th catch-up, 1108, (8).) Also, mind the (2) in my last catch-up. BBT was not on the list! According BBT's Day3 I strongly think that the whole Ika/BBT fight is a big fake. None of them have been in a real danger of lynch so far...

– By the way, chatchup 5/(6) is a thing why I doubt Wgeurts's scumread on Zach.

– the most important thing why I wanted to wait with my read is a meta-thing. This game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61136 finished and Ika was the SK there! I was checking that game every now and then (after all, that was the first case ever when my Setup was played)... and meanwhile I realized that it could be useful for me to sort out Ika. His style was the same there as it is here! (I'd been thinking that he'd been scum there for a while but of course I couldn't be sure before the game ended.) Also, something more about Ika. It's a parallel site activity so I'm not allowed to give any details, but his parallel activity doesn't add up.

– Wgeurts also pointed out that lol-hammering is a thing that scums may do (as for Ika's Day1), although I'm not sure whether I were allowed to tell the reference now. Also, he voted noone apart from the hammer on Day1. He left the CES wagon because it was not moving but joined the CD wagon eagerly. (The in-between vote parking is a thing that we interpret in a different way.)

1) OH NO WOE IS YOU ANEN

2) simple fact checking tells you this isn't even true. he's named bbt consistently as scum and voted him several times throughout the course of the game. when you go to ika's ISO and type in BBT, here's what my scroll bar looks like

Spoiler:

that doesn't look like the matter was dropped with no conclusion. this point is shit.

3) yeahyeahyeah

4) because we all know sk meta is the same thing as single faction scum meta. holy shit. this is layers and layers of cherry-picked wrong.
SK'S THE ONE THAT'S INFORMED OF HIS TEAMMATES, RIGHT ANEN?

5) oh my god... lolhammering isn't and will never be a scum tell for ika. IKA IS NOTORIOUS FOR LOL HAMMERING AS EITHER ALIGNMENT. IT'S AN INSIDE JOKE FOR ANYONE WHO'S PLAYED WITH HIM

THIS IKA CASE IS LIQUID SHIT

[Antihero]

Anti, you disappoint me.

I have stated multiple times why I think ika is scum.

should be easy to link me to then

[Antihero]

so ika's productivity profile doesn't fit what YOU think it should be, bbt?

is that it?