Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Iecerint]

Nobody is ignoring me that's why everyone continues ignoring the fact Ceph is scum

I just explained your case on Cephrir to Shos a few posts ago.

There is a pretty good chance that Cephrir is scum.

I am a fiddling mafia player, that's just how it is. <_<

[Wisdom]

yeah yeah there's a pretty good chance. I've heard that from everyone all game yet nobody ever votes him.

[Iecerint]

Like, I'm not someone who is ever like "omg 100% Ceph gogogo."

I might be like "this course is the least risky based on XYZ gogogo" but in cases where there's no non-risky course, I don't play that way.

Pedit: Yes, I do not blame you for having that perspective and for suspecting players related to it as a corollary. That is an aspect of your attitude that makes a lot of sense to me.

I had a pretty similar attitude about Cabd during D2, mainly because I thought the Katsuki lynch was terrible. But they were both town and Cabd just powerlurked.

[Magua]

Vote Count 3.11

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

T-Bone (3): GreyICE, notscience, TierShift
GreyICE (2): shos, T-Bone
Cephrir (2): Wisdom, xRECKONERx

Not Voting (2): Cephrir, Iecerint

Deadline for Day 3 is Thursday May 14th, at 07:00pm EDT (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2015-05-14 18:00:00)

Name	Change	Score
Cephrir	-	0
GreyICE	-	0
Iecerint	-	0
notscience	-	0
shos	-	0
T-Bone	-	0
TierShift	-	0
Wisdom	-	-1,000,000
xRECKONERx	-	1,000,000

[TierShift]

Look, Iece, if scum have a RB, a rolecop and a role that fucks with investigatives, town is still underpowered, with what has been claimed so far. I do not see why you conclude there have to be weaker scum PR's because there's nothing that makes that necessary.

Your line of reasoning is absolutely fallacious as it bases its validity on knowledge of scum PR's, which you don't or at least shouldn't have, if you're town.

I don't like how you're using fallacious reasoning to connect grey and T-bone

If Iece is scum then T-bone is town, that's for sure.
Lemme think.

[Iecerint]

Hmm, put it this way.

Posit that Cephrir is scum and T-Bone is town.

Then there is a tracker who tracked Cephrir and gave the result to town-Tbone (or at any rate it ended up there), and the result was null.

So Cephrir took no night action, reducing the chance that he is scum (i.e., why I preferred Cabd yesterday). If he IS scum, he may be a ninja.

If Cephrir is a ninja, what does that make the tracker?

-> But the existence of a scum miller in the previous version of this game makes this line of reasoning weaker than it would otherwise be.

[Iecerint]

Look, Iece, if scum have a RB, a rolecop and a role that fucks with investigatives, town is still underpowered, with what has been claimed so far. I do not see why you conclude there have to be weaker scum PR's because there's nothing that makes that necessary.

Your line of reasoning is absolutely fallacious as it bases its validity on knowledge of scum PR's, which you don't or at least shouldn't have, if you're town.

I don't like how you're using fallacious reasoning to connect grey and T-bone

If Iece is scum then T-bone is town, that's for sure.
Lemme think.

I am not arguing that they are both scum. That is DEFINITELY not the case. I am arguing that exactly one of them is scum.

I had another motive in exploring this perspective in this way, but it clearly didn't work as I had intended.

[Iecerint]

I will vote for Cephrir if he has not posted and voted within 8 hours.

[Iecerint]

I guess it's possible that a huge number of players could have night actions such that GreyICE/LLD are functionally near-vanilla. LLD having made this inference could also justify her reaction to the role (which is hyperbolic relative to just getting a non-killing role IMO YMMV). That could justify everyone being town.

Speaking of, I wonder if hypo-ninja Cephrir would be immune to Grey's ability. But too late to test it that way probably, since T-Bone will probably block Grey regardless of his alignment.

[Iecerint]

I really think anyone who can read between the lines at all should see me as obvtown at this point.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Cephrir does.

[Wisdom]

If he IS scum, he may be a ninja

Or he's scum with a day action. He doesn't have to be a ninja.

[Iecerint]

If he IS scum, he may be a ninja

Or he's scum with a day action. He doesn't have to be a ninja.

That requires the assumption of a second scum that has no night action, or for the scum to have opted not to use that action for some reason (e.g., due to X-shot abilities). But yes, it is possible. Hence "may."

You have to make inferences based on

something

. May as well go with parsimony IMO.

[Iecerint]

I respect your alternative lifestyle if it doesn't do much for you, though!

[Wisdom]

That requires the assumption of a second scum that has no night action, or for the scum to have opted not to use that action for some reason

Or scum can simply both use their action and kill

[Iecerint]

That's almost certainly not the case, especially in a game with a tracker, until the scum are dead. That's just not the site meta. The earlier possibilities are more likely than that.

You can probably fairly conclusively rule that out by assuming a Team Mafia meta on that issue if you're really paranoid.

I'm assuming you're just being academic, though.

[Wisdom]

I have rarely encountered games where scum can't act and kill, so dunno what site meta you're talking about

[Iecerint]

I have never played in a game on this site where scum could both take a night action and perform the factional kill using the same player on the same night. I did read such a game once (I think it was an Open game).

The main exception to the above is when scum has only 1 member remaining. In such cases it is normative to allow that scum to both use his action and perform the kill.

If you have a different experience than me on this, that does help contextualize why you have not understood where I am coming from at times. I am experiencing more than a little bit of culture-shock that this is apparently alien to you, because you have played a gazillion games from what I understand (or at least, you don't participate in the social aspect of the site much while having among the most posts on the site).

[shos]

Iece, I have no idea what meta you're getting that from. I'm with Wisdom on this one.
but either way, yoru argument is based on outguessing the mod, and wisdom's argument says ceph is scum regardless of what he posts, so.


you're both ooooey.

[T-Bone]

Wis I'll vote I eve or ceph when I get home but I eve is preferred for me at the moment because of things he's said this phase I don't like.

[Iecerint]

Iece, I have no idea what meta you're getting that from. I'm with Wisdom on this one.
but either way, yoru argument is based on outguessing the mod, and wisdom's argument says ceph is scum regardless of what he posts, so.


you're both ooooey.

There's "outguessing the mod" (i.e., assuming no subversion because it is rare, or inferring a norm that does not exist in the first place or is outdated), and there's taking into account stuff that is nigh-impossible (enough that I'm fine losing to it) because the subversion creates unannounced swinginess or balance concerns that ain't happening in a Team Mafia.

Maybe the site meta changed without my noticing. I played considerably fewer games in 2013 and 2014 than I had previously.

I am a little surprised that no one pointed this out when I brought it up yesterday. Null tracks are much less informative if that is true.

[shos]

Wis I'll vote I eve or ceph when I get home but I eve is preferred for me at the moment because of things he's said this phase I don't like.

I'm guessing "I eve" is the autocorrect version of "Iece"?

[Iecerint]

Like, AP and I used to make fun of players who would ignore that they were proposing impossible set-ups (usually in the context of obviously-false scumclaims being accepted at face value).

He probably has more sensitivity to this particular issue because he literally reviews set-ups and rejects ones that are disallowed.

Like, the site has people that do that in real life.

[Iecerint]

I am more than a little annoyed that Reck hasn't posted here.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm pretty over this day and it has only been happening for like less than a week

[xRECKONERx]

lmao iece's fake anger at me not posting for literally only 7 hours is fucking hysterical

iece is scum as fuck