White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Regfan]

Finished getting through Anens ISO, his change of read on BBT from Post 1435 where he had him as a fairly strong town read and thought his play fit his town meta to voting him in Post 1637 with the attached reasoning and the sole change of mind stemming from BBTs vote on Ika which he noticed in Post 1626 doesn't add up since BBTs Ika vote is 100x better and more understandable than the Elk one given that BBTs stated a scum-read on Ika throughout the entire game so BBT voting Ika being the reason he's reconsidering Ika and scum-reading BBT seriously doesn't make an ounce of sense. Also think his town read on Elk in Post 1435 despite finding his ISO empty and lack of complete interaction with him very much reads as him attempting to town read a partner which scum would want in this setup.

Also didn't like his whole "I'm an easy lynch" in Post 1454 to suggest people pushing him are mafia and again in Post 1485 ignores the fact that people had a scum-read on his slot before he even replaced in so him using that as reason to suspect Anti reads more as de-crediting.

Initial reaction when reading the whole "Wgeurts reads and reasons" in Post 1527 was the team effort into the game was a town-tell but remember Empire telling me that Wguerts GTKAS stated he prefered scum which nullifies that point. The way he's using his reads to suggest his other reads are right re; wagon analysis there reads as circular reasoning and his "Elk is lynchbait" copying of Anks statement to excuse Ek from his vote placements don't read as genuine (Actually can kind of see an Elk/Ank/Anen team coming from this). The attempt to meta Ika from here to a SK game of him similarly doesn't make sense (SK and mafia are very very different, if anything SK is more similar to town than mafia in that there's no partners).

Yeah okay combined all that with the fact that I think that the quotes in Post 1180 make much more sense coming from scum lying about team comments mean I'm likely voting Anen here. We got time though so I'll carve some more time tomorrow to get to the other three but consider my vote effectively on Anen here.

[Regfan]

I feel like this point isn't as strong given that if elk is scum, his attack on Ank was definitely prepared ahead of time. I don't think Today's wagon on Anen would've been obvious during the Night.

Eh, I think it was fairly obvious that several of us FoS'ed Anen though; I know Anti/Zach/Myself minimum had mentioned it?

Anyway I'm crashing now. The rest of the ISO's tomorrow.

[Regfan]

Oh I remember what I wanted to ask before I crashed.

theelkspeaks - Lynchbait (Town)

I want this read explained.

[Regfan]

@Zach

- Just got confirmation from Zor; It was 1. WF, 2. Mini Theme, 3. Nightless, 4. Mini Normal, 5. Open so Mina was right.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I really would've guessed the Open would've been more hotly contested. Guess that was a wasted token.

And your point about Anen voting BBT is pretty valid.

[Zachrulez]

UNVOTE:

Catching up but I think the last post is going to force my vote to change.

[Zachrulez]

Got ninjaed

[Zachrulez]

VOTE: Regfan

Regfan claiming the open game as his team's 5th choice is what I'm taking issue with here because the open was our team's 2nd choice and I don't see how his team ends up with the open game without spending at least one token on it.

That conflicts with his claim of using two town tokens in this game.

I'm not going to claim anything about token usage except that our team did use all 5 on side selection and none on game selection.

The problem should become apparent.

[Regfan]

I really would've guessed the Open would've been more hotly contested. Guess that was a wasted token.

I only really cared about me getting WF, Empire about getting the nightless (We didn't think either would be that popular given that most people nowadays love roles) and Zar had already volunteered for the large so it was really just down to what Mina wanted and she changed her mind a lot. I think it was something about the Open setup that turned her off it? Didn't really care to get involved in that too much but I can ask her if you're curious.

PEdit: Huh? I literally got confirmation from Zoraster that we had open #5 and that we didn't use any tokens for selection.

[Zachrulez]

Well we didn't use any tokens for selection so essentially what you're claiming here is that your 5th choice trumped our 2nd choice.

I don't see how that's actually possible.

[Regfan]

I can literally guarantee you that we used none on game selection and that we had the Open #5.

[Regfan]

Think about it for half a second; why the fuck would our team use tokens on game selection? Empire and I are locks get our choice (No one was EVER going to use tokens to get into these two games), Zar was forced into the large by virtue of no one wanting a playerlist that big and Mina was changing her mind about which she preferred between the others every day ergo not worth using a token to decide on.

[Zachrulez]

I mean the problem isn't the argument, it's that there is literally no logical explanation for how your team ends up with the open vs ours given what you claimed your game selection was.

[Regfan]

I mean the problem isn't the argument, it's that there is literally no logical explanation for how your team ends up with the open vs ours given what you claimed your game selection was.

I don't have an answer for you. All I know is what our team selected and that we used no tokens on it, that's an outright fact.

And you've also got no reason to lie here.

[Antihero]

STOP

zach, unless you're privy to EVERYTHING that went on behind the scenes regarding the game assignment, this is stupid

[Zachrulez]

I'm not privy to everything, but I know our team's preference for the open was 2nd and regfan is claiming his team's was 5th.

Unless our rankings without tokens mean nothing... in which case why even rank?

[Antihero]

so that the organizers can accommodate to some reasonable extent

[Zachrulez]

So giving Regfan's team the open game as their 5th selection over our 2nd preference is reasonable accommodation?

[Regfan]

I don't have an answer for you Zach, I've PM'ed Zor and I'll see what he says but we 100% used 0 tokens on setup and Open as #5.

[Zachrulez]

If there's a way this makes sense, I'd love to hear it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Was the 13p Normal your #1 choice, Zach? Because if so, both your team and Regfan's team could've ended up in Vanilla Nightless and White Flag to make sure those games were filled.

That's the only explanation I can think of (except mod error) and then Regfan would have to be lying about the order even if his team had spent a token (since his team would've gotten the Mini Normal over the Open), so if the 13p Normal was your #1, that's definitely what happened.

[Regfan]

That kind of makes sense? If the Normal was your #1 and WF and Nightless required filling you'd have got it regardless of your #2/#3/#4 type choices whereas Nightless/WF were already our #1/#3 choice.

[Antihero]

So giving Regfan's team the open game as their 5th selection over our 2nd preference is reasonable accommodation?

if that was a result of a ripple effect in some other area we don't know about, yes

that's why you have to see the WHOLE picture because the whole LOL OMG GAME SELECTION is an incredibly dumb line of logic otherwise

[Zachrulez]

Ok.

Found the order in the team topic.

1. 13p Normal
2. 9p Open
3. White Flag
4. 13p Theme
5. 12p Nightless

[Regfan]

Ok.

Found the order in the team topic.

1. 13p Normal
2. 9p Open
3. White Flag
4. 13p Theme
5. 12p Nightless

Yeah, so you would have got your #1 choice and WF/Nightless would have require numbers due to their unpopularity so you end up with #1/#3/#5.

We also got #1/#3/#5.

Seems fairly even?