White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Antihero]

Yeah, so you would have got your #1 choice and WF/Nightless would have require numbers due to their unpopularity so you end up with #1/#3/#5.

We also got #1/#3/#5.

Seems fairly even?

can we please stop this now? i can already tell this is going to crater the day if we let it go on.

[Regfan]

Fine, I should be asleep some time ago anyway.

I'd appreciate if people could actually comment on my catch up / Anen-Elk reads in the meantime.

[Zachrulez]

UNVOTE:

I guess.

VOTE: Aneninen

[Zachrulez]

So I have Anti and Ika as town

If I accept that Reg and CES are town that would leave

Ank/BBT/Elk/Anen

Would probably lynch Ank last out of those four.

My reads:

Anti: Bright Green town
Ika: Town
CES: Town
BBT: Lean town
Ank: Same as above
Reg: null, possibly scum (Not weighing the game selection issue anymore.)
Elk: lurkerscum
Anen: Bright red scum

[Zachrulez]

@Zach

- Empire was the one that submitted our team list and replaced out, last list that he posted in the QT was 1. WF, 2. Mini Theme, 3. Nightless, 4. Open, 5. Normal, I didn't remember the Theme being so high and Mina thinks 4/5 may have been flipped. We didn't use any tokens for game selection at all / wanted to save all tokens on Empire/Me drawing town, I've PM'ed Zor asking if he can give me what Empire submitted, will update you on his answer. Can you explain your SUPER strong town read on Anti in the meantime for me; I think he's town too but I'm not sharing the confidence you are in that read and I'd like to be confident enough to rule him out entirely - I did find his reaction towards the Ika wagon recently in Post 1611, Post 1612, Post 1615 reads town but I didn't like his Post 1472 at all*.

I kind of see Antihero as an alternate version of me, an alternate version that is generally a lot more confident (or conveys a lot more confidence.) than I think I've ever conveyed since I started on this site.

I know I've been at 1472 before in other games as town, so I don't really find fault with Anti there.

[Zachrulez]

You're the 2nd counterwagon which has been heavily pushed by the same two guys that pushed the previous counter wagon to anen, with anen setting up a push for BBT.
I don't think that points to Anen town...

I haven't got the slightest idea why Elk has been following me all the time, but, basically, do you think that Ankamius and Ika are town just because I was voting for them?

Oh just die already.

[Zachrulez]

If you're actually following the game it's pretty easy to see a progression of doubt regarding where I've been with Ank since the start of the day and it's also been pretty clear that I had a town read on ika long before there was ever a wagon on him.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.12

Aneninen (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez
BlueBloodedToffee (2) - ika, Aneninen
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

With 9 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 11, 2015, at 12:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-11 12:00:00).

Moderator Comments

Missed pages ahoy!

[ika]

anti: ask TTH whats the case on annen

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well this game just came to life again.

1623 - Anti, ISO me for why I have been saying ika is scum. I'm not going through the effort of finding it when there is no chance you will join me in voting him. If you want me to vote Anen, show me ika is town. I also have something else a little further on in this post; I'm quite excited about it.

1624 - It has a little to do with ika's productivity. Also to do with a few other things; see if you can find them!

This is gold;

I don't like this vote.
Something is not right here and I don't know what it is.
UNVOTE:

and exactly what I was hoping for when I voted ika. I thought ika was being bussed and I just couldn't see a situation where both Anen and elk were town.

I don't see scum bussing toDay. They don't need to, they're in a good position. As it happens, as soon as the ika wagon actually starts to take off, Anen gets off it in a flash with really weak reasoning.

I think it's Anen/CES/ika.

VOTE: Anen

1629 - ika, please explain your Anen town read.

1630 - How did I remove blame? a) you're not flipping town and b) you think 2 and a half days worth of pressuring you would be forgotten because of...what exactly?

1637 - How does you (Anen) being wrong on ika make me scum? That doesn't make sense.

1) LOLOLOLOLOL - you've 'rechecked' the meta. Are you actually saying this right now? The interaction is now 'entirely' different. Please.
2) My interactions with you are not the same? Can you elaborate on this instead of 'gut' because that's bullshit.
3) You're right, everyone clearly wants to lynch CES. It would have been just fantastic if CES was the lynch; I'll happily settle for you though.
4) Yeah, I haven't pushed ika at all, you're right. I have no business being on that wagon. Well, no business other than catching scum.

1638 - CES, how does Reg not dying point to one of Reg/myself being scum?

It's also funny that you seem to be town reading Anen now. You looked like you had all but voted him earlier in the game (without actually doing so) and now you think he is town? That's just magical.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But I'm leaning towards BBT-elk-Ank right now.

This hurts my eyes. My eyes are bleeding after reading that shit.

it's reg/ces/anen

Anti, please, fucking please, look at ika's play this game and not base your read on meta.

1674 - CES, I'm confused. What's your read on Anen?

You seem pretty set on Elk/Ank being scum. Can you elaborate on your reasoning? If you have done so and I've missed it, link me to it.

Independent reads would be great. Not a big fan of reads that contain a whole lot of 'ifs' and 'buts'.

[Zachrulez]

Anen is ridiculously scummy and needs to die.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I don't think that's something you have to worry about, Zach.

(you, Zach and Antihero look seriously town; BBT, elk and Aneninen look notably scummy, Ank somewhat scummy)

Those are my reads independent of partnership considerations, BBT, where "you" is ika and I'm now also fairly convinced Regfan is town.

Not a big fan of reads that contain a whole lot of 'ifs' and 'buts'.

'Ifs' and 'buts' are what you get if you're actually trying to find the scum team rather than cram anything you find into a CES/ika-shaped hole.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sweet, you gonna hammer Anen then?

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Looks like you'll have time.

Your buddy disappeared instead of being a man and hammering you.

[Aneninen]

annen who do you think will be killed tonight and why?
(and yes there is a reason for asking this very scummy question but i want you to do it before i tell you)

Antihero or Zach, I suppose. Because those lynches would never happen.

@Anen

- The fact that you called players scummy during your catch up and stated that your reads can change with more information is irrelevant, the fact is you CAN have a scum-read on someone without interacting on them so you pushing Ank saying his scum read on your slot isn't possible since he hasn't spoken with you (Something that again would be hard for him to do given you've just arrived at the time) makes no sense whatsoever.¹ I don't get your flip from Ika to BBT in Post 1637 at all, your "if I'm wrong on Ika BBT must be scum"² a) What exactly changed your mind re; on Ika to think you might be wrong on him b) Why is BBT not voting Elk a scum-tell given that everyone has multiple scum-reads and it's impossible to vote them all c) Others in the game have been town reading your scum-reads, why is that not reasoning for nearly everyone in the game to be scum?³ Also do me a favour and post a list (with reasoning if possible) of your current reads since your reads kind of seem to be flipping every post and I'm not following the changes or progression of the reads.⁴

(1) Oh, really? Noone seemed to have problems with Anti, Zach and Ankamius scumreading me without interacting me or providing a viable case. Read back and check it. So, who looks scummy now?

(2) Most players are townreading Ika. I was thinking, "what if I'm wrong"? If so, the whole Ika/BBT interaction should be read in a different way. (When both of them were scums, they were mostly distancing each other, therefore it's not likely that both of them are scums.) Therefore, plus adding that BBT's Day3 seems to be very different from his play I know, the logical assumption is he's scum. (His previous gameplay looked more town-BBT-ish, but catching up and being in the game when the posts are arriving are two different things.)

(3) What sort of pigeon poop is that? I'm telling you. A Regardless Of Card-type pigeon poop. Had I scumread everyone who disagrees with me, I would have called scum because of that. Actually no matter what I'm doing, it's scummy in the eyes of plenty of players.

(4) After I've caught up.

So yeah, what am I missing; why do you think Anen-BBT or Anen-Ank work as a team and can you think of anyone that works as a third in an Anen-Elk scum-team?

I felt Anen and BBT were playing pretty nice to each other Today up until Anen's recent BBTvote. I think scum should have much clearer motivations, so that's what I feel is most informative w.r.t. interactions.

But I'm leaning towards BBT-elk-Ank right now.

Do you agree with my reasoning on the ikawagon?

And that's a very possible team. Unless one of the "super-town-looking-regardless-of-carding" is scum too. Namely, Antihero, Zach or Regfan.

ok, if that's how it's gonna' be.
VOTE: regfan

ika, zach, this is a call to arms

tth just threatened to kick me in the nuts so
VOTE: aneninen
seriously, this slot is flipping scum
i'll go requote posts later this morning

Yeahf-ckthatshyt.

After you've run out of reasons

wait-oh, you've never had real reasons apart from "Aneninen is scum because of he's scum". Nevertheless, now you have a TTH-read on your side. (Needless to say, another read without details.)

Frankly, why the rusty monkey wrench left in the creek are you all townreading him?!

Also didn't like his whole "I'm an easy lynch" in Post 1454 to suggest people pushing him are mafia and again in Post 1485 ignores the fact that people had a scum-read on his slot before he even replaced in so him using that as reason to suspect Anti reads more as de-crediting.

Have you ever seen a player with lurky-and-or-scummy posts replacing out? This reason will be sooo awkward after I flip town.

Initial reaction when reading the whole "Wgeurts reads and reasons" in Post 1527 was the team effort into the game was a town-tell but remember Empire telling me that Wguerts GTKAS stated he prefered scum which nullifies that point. The way he's using his reads to suggest his other reads are right re; wagon analysis there reads as circular reasoning and his "Elk is lynchbait" copying of Anks statement to excuse Ek from his vote placements don't read as genuine (Actually can kind of see an Elk/Ank/Anen team coming from this). The attempt to meta Ika from here to a SK game of him similarly doesn't make sense (SK and mafia are very very different, if anything SK is more similar to town than mafia in that there's no partners).

What the lithium fork have you tried to say in the first part?
Plus, I have already explained why I examined that SK-game about Ika. Need I explain this over and over for every single player?

Yeah okay combined all that with the fact that I think that the quotes in Post 1180 make much more sense coming from scum lying about team comments mean I'm likely voting Anen here. We got time though so I'll carve some more time tomorrow to get to the other three but consider my vote effectively on Anen here.

What if you will stop shadowing my wagon and start scumhunting? All of your reads seem to be based upon the assumption that I'm scum.

UNVOTE:
I guess.
VOTE: Aneninen

Gross. Another player unvoting me, voting for Regfan and revoting me a couple of posts later. And both Zach and Anti are strong-townreads according to most players.

and exactly what I was hoping for when I voted ika. I thought ika was being bussed and I just couldn't see a situation where both Anen and elk were town.

I don't see scum bussing toDay. They don't need to, they're in a good position. As it happens, as soon as the ika wagon actually starts to take off, Anen gets off it in a flash with really weak reasoning.

I think it's Anen/CES/ika.

VOTE: Anen

WHUT?
You voted for Ika so as to see what happens? Not because you've been... scumreading him all the time? That's pigeon poop.
Aaaaaaaaand, obviously, you just ended up on the major wagon instantly. And of course, it's not OMGUS. Had I done the same, THAT would have been OMGUS, wouldn't it?

1) LOLOLOLOLOL - you've 'rechecked' the meta. Are you actually saying this right now? The interaction is now 'entirely' different. Please.
2) My interactions with you are not the same? Can you elaborate on this instead of 'gut' because that's bullshit.
3) You're right, everyone clearly wants to lynch CES. It would have been just fantastic if CES was the lynch; I'll happily settle for you though.
4) Yeah, I haven't pushed ika at all, you're right. I have no business being on that wagon. Well, no business other than catching scum.

(1) Explained above.
(2) It's way not the same and I know why. You've been involved in a long fight with Ika and you didn't want to get another player on your flank.
(3) That's just WTF?!
(4) Or that was a possible counter-wagon to Ankamius, after your CES-push had been worth nothing. But now, hurray, you've found the perfect mislynch.[/quote]

Looks like you'll have time.
Your buddy disappeared instead of being a man and hammering you.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

Also, are you scared that I have time?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

WHUT?
You voted for Ika so as to see what happens? Not because you've been... scumreading him all the time? That's pigeon poop.
Aaaaaaaaand, obviously, you just ended up on the major wagon instantly. And of course, it's not OMGUS. Had I done the same, THAT would have been OMGUS, wouldn't it?

Remember when I said this Anen;

It doesn't give me pause because I really am convinced you're scum.

There is another reason and I'll share when the time is right.

Good times.

[Antihero]

'sup, anen?

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about this game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch.

oh my god you are NOT a newb and you replaced into a SCUMMY slot, not a lurker slot

and don't even fucking PRETEND that you're scumreading me at this point

While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!

what's to not understand?

you're playing a MAFIA game. that means there's an INFORMED MINORITY against an UNINFORMED MAJORITY. it's the DAY PHASE. that means you VOTE who to LYNCH.

is any of this

ringin' a bell?

and the "reads" are made-up horseshit because most of the townreads were consensus townreads not many ppl were going to dispute, the scumreads were bleh-worthy at best, and the TWO LEADING WAGONS we were choosing between JUST SO HAPPENED to fall in this nebulous gray area shrouded in the effluvia of uncertainty that JUST COULDN'T BE LIFTED FUCKING EVER EVEN THOUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD WAS BEATING THE TOPIC TO DEATH

you wanna' go, bro?

[Antihero]

reposting this

(1) "Interaction" as a buzzword? La wow, you're right! Who the f-ck needs interactions at all? Let's post scumreads without talking to the player we have a scumread on!

i get this was supposed to be sarcastic.

but yes.

this.

but here, since we're taking a jog down memory lane, let's revisit everything tth and i said about psyche

gasp

The exchange between you and BBT at the top of page 2 (from about Post 32 to Post 41) was all kinds of awkward on your end. Screaming about being left out and then asking for reasons on ika doesn't quite gel. The comment implying that ika is lynchbait in Post 38 doesn't

quite

fit the context given that nobody is seriously talking about lynching ika. The attack on BBT is subpar even given the relatively low standards of the early game.

in our exchange
you seemed guarded
and not really interested in figuring me out

Funny, that's exactly what I think about you.

I have a light scum read on ika from general game dynamics.
I also have a light scum read on elk, mostly for blanket criticizing the ika wagon but not calling out anyone in particular.

TTH; Can you explain what you're referring to with "general game dynamics" in Post 81 for me please.

I was mostly referring to elk's white knighting of the ika wagon and Psyche's early game questioning of it. Since the set up itself encourages scum to defend each other, I'm treating awkward defense as a bit of a scumtell though I do recognize it could be scum white knighting for town cred thus the "light" read.

ika's empty prod for content in Post 108 doesn't help either.

i mean... if there's a narrative about reads that doesn't make sense here, it's psyche's. and it hasn't since the beginning of this goddamn game. it's not like he's just flat out not here (it looks like his mind is elsewhere day 2) but even on day 1, tth noticed the cracks in the system early on. there aren't any real scumreads really hashed out... anywhere in the iso. there was the whole "group" thing that nacho was townreading for some reason but that ended up being a dead end and it didn't even really make that much sense to begin with and it just kind of spiraled from there into an abyss of lurk.

also, not really buying the team interactions regarding the aero wagon. your "teammates" (notice, we don't hear the name of a specific member) told you to sheep because the wagon was all good in the neighborhood? convenient since it removes every single shred of responsibility for the vote from psyche and puts it on these shadowy mysterious "others" (the teammates who have no name and whoever was already on the aero wagon). where did the townread on all these come from? where did it go? no one knows.

all of this is still valid, bee tee dubbbbbbs

[ika]

VOTE: annen

just fucking die, i still think your town but apparently nobody takes into consideration that mafia has enabled day chats and that him coming in like this as scum really makes no sense

but heck i no longer give a fuck about it im fed up we can deal with this in god damn lylo

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.13

Aneninen (5) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez, BlueBloodedToffee, ika
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Aneninen
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

With 9 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 11, 2015, at 12:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-11 12:00:00).

---

Aneninen liked pigeons very much, but apparently that was a scummy preference to have.

Aneninen,

mafia goon

, was lynched on Day 3!

Night 3 begins now. The deadline is Friday, May 8, 2015, at 12:00 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-08 00:00:00).

[Equinox]

Zachrulez's reign ended as swiftly as the Vikings' had.

Zachrulez,

town vanilla

, has died on Night 3!

Day 4 begins now.

Vote Count 4.00

Not Voting (7) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cogito Ergo Sum, ika, Regfan, theelkspeaks

With 7 alive, it will take 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 22, 2015, at 2:00 AM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-22 02:00:00).

[ika]

-.-

anti what are TTH reads atm?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: theelkspeaks