Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Gammagooey]

UT wagon is dumb because he's baned.

fuck you

lynch scum

ignore bullshit incentives to not lynch scum

[Cheetory6]

Pretty sure ffery was saying we should lynch DV btw.
If you're gonna champion ffery's reads @gamma.

[Cheetory6]

lynch scum

Never.
I intend to be anti-town and only lynch people who are not scum forever.
#getfuckedeveryone

[Untrod Tripod]

man

gamma

why you so salty

[Titus]

Pretty sure ffery was saying we should lynch DV btw.
If you're gonna champion ffery's reads @gamma.

No FFery was saying to lynch UT and that she really regretted not letting the UT wagon go through.

[Gammagooey]

man

gamma

why you so salty

cause you're obvscum

why am i scum

[Cheetory6]

I think she said both. @titus.
I'm more just making a point to gamma. Not saying I actually want to just blindly sheep what ffery said to do.

[Titus]

Spoiler: FFery's last readwall

Nacho's reads list:

Oversoul - Tammy was extremely, extremely town. Oversoul is very, very town. The chances of two players who hate playing scum coming into this slot and towning it up this hard as scum is basically zero

GammaGooey - he came into the game, found his stride and has been strongly strongly town ever since. Nacho doesn't think he can fake that as scum. he's made very townminded pushes several different times, and his reads have been fluid, which is something that takes a lot of effort, care and energy to do as scum. he's not playing in anyone's shadow and he's very deliberately butted heads with us on the specifics of our reads several times. All stuff very difficult to fake as scum, and vanishingly unlikely to come from gammagooey-scum. But, he's kept this up all through the game, even when he's said he feels unmotivated and lost. It's been an emotion, not an excuse.

Cheetory - he's had a phenomenal number of genuine moments in the game. As one example look at his strongarming and frustration at the end of this day, and his questioning of us on Espeonage.

------ above this line will not flip scum -------

singer - her level of engagement here vs in her scum games simply leaves no comparison. it's ridiculous to call this play scum. Additionally, regfan's contributions are far more likely to come from town-reg than scum-reg. since ASOIAF, nacho has approached Empire reads carefully. he found Empire's play to be very town, and his replace out to be stratospheric levels of town. he can't see Zar, who prides himself on his scum game replacing out because of heat from Tammy. Also, don't forget to look at Empire's other replace-out in this contest.

Mastin, the only reason this read isn't in the next-up section is because of your scum read. Without that it would be 100%. With that, Nacho feels it's 95% this slot flips town.

titus - stuff nacho loves about her play: the interactions with Ika through GiF, crumbing her sign to him, telling him he should be townreading her, he loves the way she freaked out about possibly outing Alquin. he feels titus' interactions with mastin wouldn't happen that way if she were scum. he thinks the way she's tried to get mastin and us to agree on a lynch is insanely town. 2352 is a strong town tell. the comment re not getting invited into townblocs is a strong towntell. Telling mastin she's not conftown is a strong town tell. Nacho fully believes scum-titus would be willing to buddy mastin for a seat at the townbloc table, which is exactly what didn't happen. the waffle on singer-scum is a towntell. the only reason to do that is to buddy us, and we're dead in a few hours - no reason to buddy us.

------- gap - more to come --------------

paraphrasing while keeping the full gist takes a lot of time. bear with me.

oh - the only reason titus isn't 100% is because nacho usually has uncertainty in his titus reads. not having uncertainty is ironically a source of small uncertainty.

Next chunk

mastin2 - Nacho has seen this stubborn read-pushing but relatively low engagement style from mastin-town a couple times in recent memory. he's never seen it from mastin-scum. This style of play alienates her from player lists (unless there's a huge contingent of players who know her fairly well) and makes her an easier lynch target. he agrees with me that the incessant crumbing is not something he's seen from her as scum. The mindset behind her "walking deadwoman" posting which, as Regfan has pointed out, only makes it more difficult for her to explain being alive at endgame. In this game, scum-mastin would be aiming to be alive at endgame. Some of

her stranger reads, e.g., Cheetory-scum, singer-scum, DV (nacho disagreed with DV-scum once but not so strongly anymore)

are scumreads that won't be getting lynched anytime soon - not easy to push if scum, and in total alienate her from the rest of the playerlist to some extent. She would be pushing easy mislynches if scum townread. her mindset is quite simply not a scum mindset.

Vezokpiraka - Nacho's main reason for townreading Vezok can't be talked about in this game, but it's there and it's informed this read for much of the game. Vezok tracing TTH to DV is a good towntell. it's possible that the scumteam realized that most players are going to be detecting and thought that tracing and claiming it would look town as fuck, and that this scumteam would and decide to give the tracing results to vezok to claim since he already knew someone's sign . It's possible, but Nacho doesn't find it all that likely. His aggressive push on TTH after the Trace on her, and the continued pushing of her even after he moves off the wagon, and his hostil interactions with mastin after that wagon falls down) also feels very town. When you look at the evolution of his mastin read, it has a surprisingly good progression behind it. (I would call this awesome trajectory!) he doesn't think all of this focus from vezok is something he'd think to fake as scum.

Aronis - I already posted our thoughts on his meta. The way Copper took specific interest in TTH and TTH only ( which was to the point where he encouraged a push initially, and then backed off before the wagon began disintegrating) seemed pretty fucking town. scum!copper expecting TTH to townread him from that interaction alone is unlikely.

Espeonage - Nacho backed off this Espeonage as a scumread mostly for the way that he claimed early, treated his VT claim (attempted to WIFOM scum by claiming his sign, offered to claim Cheetory's sign). Both those interactions follow the cryptic way he's treated his role in other games where he's been engaged as a PR. Nacho also still kinda likes his interaction with Tammy.

Nacho's CDB Read

406 Nacho is pretty sure that CDB was one of the first people to bring up the "let's not Bane #1 scummiest" approach. This fits and makes sense given CDB claiming he's an investigative PR. I love it when you can find early evidence of the mindset that a specific PR should give a town player.

In 920 he reiterates this, and makes a weak towntell into a strong one.

The Westeros push that CDB is somehow scummy because they don't believe town-CES would take a position about vezok being hard to read when he's actually pretty transparent. Reasons why this doesn't look scum motivated - there is no real scum motivation for scum-CDB to bane vezok rather than anyone else. And, scum-CES wouldn't lie ab out a player being unreadable because it's a dumb thing to lie about.

We've talked already about CDB's push on Empire about lack of empathy looking town. Nacho has done some meta research looking at CDB's emotions in scumgames and still feels this is a type of emotional manipulation that he can't easily see coming from scum-CDB.

His questions about whether to out Aronis's sign before he died was also very town.

CDB is holding the same top 5 townreads Gestalt does, and this feels good. Even more so because he talks about having a LOT of confidence in his townreads but not a lot of confidence in his scumreads. That's how we're feeling about the game as well.


Overall, CDB is a strong townread for Nacho.

TTH - Nacho thinks that 1486 seems like a strange approach to take to the game for tth-scum. it's a hell of a claim to make and she could have at least tried to fight off the wagon without claiming and locking herself into a potentially bad situation on day 2. and yet, she didn't even so much as try. Her scumhunting isn't particularly terrible, though it'd be great if she was more engaged than she has been. her comment on DV's lynch pool is decent. #2492 as a reiteration of her power looks town as shit. Anti's reachout to mastin because of townread looks pretty town. Also, turning on her strongest defender (mastin) is additionally very town, and a town defender is not something a scum player would want to put at risk. behaviorally, the attitude she's put into the thread so far does make sense from a player who expects to be confirmed town eventually.

Even if she doesn't confirm herself tomorrow, nacho wouldn't immediately lynch her. scum roleblockers and such are a thing after all.

Nacho's shadoweh read.

he doesn't understand the scum-purpose of Shadoweh's beginning to sort-of push on Tammy in 207. Scum-Shadoweh knows that she is probably expected to townread Tammy and knows that implying Tammy is scum is going to bring Tammy's ire in her direction. Scum-Shadoweh also wouldn't going get any towncred from a push at all if she immediately backs off. Which she did.

Her push on singer actually looks like a decent and natural response to defend a townread in that way, Titus is a strange player to for shadoweh to buddy up to because even when Titus was being mostly townread she didn't have a large amount of sway. Nacho very much liked the #3 paragraph of 1904, especially the bit about "you won't be lynching me today".

This post by Shadoweh also feels quite town. It's also a good point: Nacho feels like CDB's worst scumread was Shadoweh because it was formed for apparently no reason. Nacho doesn't think scum would be likely to raise hell with someone because they forgot to include them in a scumlist.

Shadoweh's apology to Espy in 2688 seems pretty solid and town.

Oh. You picked one of my only friends playing left. I wish I could disagree that big post felt weird.

Nacho didn't see this post before now, but holy shit it reads so town.

Going to a STRONG townread when Dan started reacting feels nice and in line with our own thoughts. so do most of the interactions with Dan in general.

Nacho kinda started this reread with the mindset that maybe he was only townreading Shadoweh because he likes Shadoweh as a person but going through her posts he now feels pretty strongly about her being town. he's come away with a good read on her instead of one of those "oh I think she's town here are reasons she's town" conf-bias reads. NACHO BELIEVES!

No, FFery had DV as town, calling a scumread on DV "strange".

[Cheetory6]

(nacho disagreed with DV-scum once but not so strongly anymore)

You think this is her saying that a scumread on DV was strange?
Because it reads opposite to me? And I'm pretty sure there was something in her last few posts saying DV was scummy but I literally don't have time to check right now.
Be back later tonight.

[Titus]

No, they were townreading DV. The section says Nacho is still disagreeing with DV scum, but not as strongly. If Nacho was scumreading DV, the last section ("but not so strongly" would be redundant). They tried to reach out to DV but that's the last they said on the slot.

One of the first rules of statutory interpretation is you give every word meaning.

[singersigner]

So Titus what do YOU think of DV?

[Titus]

So Titus what do YOU think of DV?

I want more content from him. Given the people pushing him are expressing ass-backwards reads, gun to my head, town.

[singersigner]

"Ass-backwards"?

Who's

really

pushing him (or had been from yesterday) and where are they wrong?

[Titus]

"Ass-backwards"?

Who's

really

pushing him (or had been from yesterday) and where are they wrong?

Reread the start of the day k thanks. Just for the lazy. TTH thinks Bulba's scum. That's wrong. You think I'm scum and that's wrong. Cheetory's foundation on DV is inaccurate.

So what you think of UT and Vezok?

[Untrod Tripod]

so why are we fellating ffer's reads and not GiF's or TSOs?

they're confirmed town too

[Gammagooey]

so why are we fellating ffer's reads and not GiF's or TSOs?

they're confirmed town too

why am i scum

[Untrod Tripod]

PROBABLY YOUR ROLE PM

I DUNNO MAN

I'M NOT GONNA TALK YOU INTO ACKNOWLEDGING IT SO HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS BULLSHIT

[Gammagooey]

your actual posting in this game is scummy

PROBABLY YOUR ROLE PM

I DUNNO MAN

I'M NOT GONNA TALK YOU INTO ACKNOWLEDGING IT SO HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS BULLSHIT

die

[Untrod Tripod]

nah

[singersigner]

"Ass-backwards"?

Who's

really

pushing him (or had been from yesterday) and where are they wrong?

Reread the start of the day k thanks. Just for the lazy. TTH thinks Bulba's scum. That's wrong. You think I'm scum and that's wrong. Cheetory's foundation on DV is inaccurate.

So what you think of UT and Vezok?

UT is crazy amounts of IDGAF right now and I've very explicitly said Vezok's one of my biggest townreads.

And do you just mean the beginning of Major Day 2? Because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and allowing you to comment on the previous people who've suggested DV's scum/scummy. What about Mastin? She has a very explicit town read on you, but a pretty definitely scum-read on DV...is she wrong about both??

Also, what happened to this sentiment:

@TTH, I do.

Name anyone townreading DV but me.

Also, are you implying Aronis is scum who knew TSO was town and therefore whiteknighted?

I'm not following how your read on DV devolving from a town-read based off his Gun-something game to "need to hear more from him." People are trying to get him to engage but he's saying his head isn't in the game so what do you make of his posting toward the end of Minor Day 1 and how can you take a pot shot at me for "not reading the beginning of the day" when you made it clear you didn't think anyone was explicitly town-reading him?

[Gammagooey]

I'M NOT GONNA TALK YOU INTO ACKNOWLEDGING IT SO HOW ABOUT YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS BULLSHIT

also

That's pretty obviously not the point

the point is that I think it'll be pretty obvious to the rest of the game if you actually posted reasons for why you supposedly think I'm scum that it's an indefensible pile of horseshit.

[singersigner]

@UT...do you

actually

think Gamma's scum?

@Gamma...why do you think UT is scum? And what makes him worth lynching first if at all when we have a night to burn? Yes, I know,

even if he's scum

, what's the point of the mechanic if we can't take advantage of maybe lynching two

other

scum today and leaving UT to suck it over night?

Like...I get why you just want to disregard it and lynch all teh scumz! But there's a pretty obvious reason why it's not so black and white to do that.

[Titus]

@Singer,

Reads devolve after 1000s posts of promises and doing nothing and multiple flips is normal. Scum tend to be more static in their reads. You and your personal vendetta against me looks very suspect in that regard. Mastina hasn't been on today but she is the reason I entertained said read. Mastina also hasn't pushed the DV lynch today but three people I am relatively confident have bad reads pushing DV (well Cheetory's read was just based on a factual inaccuracy and he seems to be taking another look. When I said the start of the day, I meant the start of the day.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Espeonage

He's not even baned, thus the stars align!

[Gammagooey]

I am going to be very very blunt.

we, as a collective town, are not competent and cohesive enough to lynch two scum today that do not include UT. There are too many people all pulling in too many directions with very little actual analysis and reconsideration of their own individual reads. We can maybe get a second scum lynch after UT's flipped scum, or maybe even lynch one scum without it, but thinking that we as a group are good enough to self-evaluate our reads and collectively lynch two scum players if they aren't playing horrifically is borderline insane when we couldn't even get a second lynch yesterday.

UT is scum because he hasn't put in the actual effort of trying to find scum this game, and all of his genuine-looking posts are things he would be feeling as scum as well. His shitting on ffery's reads over and over again is a crutch he's using to avoid posting actual content and reads of his own, and his "read" on me is a reactive piece of trash that has no actual basis on my posting in the game.