Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Iecerint]

That doesn't make any sense. How is your approach relevant to what I do, especially since you don't think I am scum?

I have noticed that whenever I support you on something, you immediately question your own scumread on that slot. At least, I have attributed your shifts to my actions. This is what I mean by "poisoning the well."

This happened most saliently early today on T-Bone, and I think also on a wagon or two D2.

In this game I think I have low/negative gravitas right now and you have higher gravitas (despite your continuously complaining that you lack gravitas).

My normal town play pattern -- find town players with gravitas, support them if they sound reasonable -- does not jive with how you have played this game, so I have tried to adjust how I express myself a little bit to account for that.

[Wisdom]

I do not explain to scum why they are scum. And if I am wrong and they are town, they show it to me by doing things that are not whining because of a lack of case on them.

You are trying to pass off your whining as engaging and it just won't work.

[Iecerint]

On T-Bone today you even explicitly said that you were doubting your T-Bone read in part due to my sheeping you IIRC.

[Wisdom]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

[xRECKONERx]

I do not explain to scum why they are scum. And if I am wrong and they are town, they show it to me by doing things that are not whining because of a lack of case on them.

You are trying to pass off your whining as engaging and it just won't work.

I AM NOT SCUM.

I do not know why people think I am scum.

I tried to point out things I'd done that I thought were town, it got ignored.

So what are my options at this point? I'm on the defensive because of a mysterious swelling consensus on me where nobody is actually giving any reason why I'm scum, and this is like "How to get a mislynch 101"

How should I scumhunt in this scenario? I'm going to try and get people to ENGAGE ME. I want to figure out MOTIVATIONS for why people are voting me, yet that's impossible to do because nobody has any reasons, apparently

[xRECKONERx]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

IT FUCKING ANNOYS TOWN WHEN THERE'S NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST TOO

[Wisdom]

You think I'm scum
The only way I as town can fix that is to speak to your concerns
You refuse to tell me those concerns
I troll you
You claim I'm refusing to engage you

This is a misrep on its own, because you are the one claiming that you have been trying to engage me. I am just pointing out it's a complete lie.

But this just proves what I was just saying. You want to "speak to my concerns", namely you want a case to fight against.

[Iecerint]

@Reck, it still doesn't account for your approach to your power role itself. Maybe you just have a lazy scumteam. Maybe the scumteam only decided to clue-into using the role when they coalesced around a particular agenda.

Yes, my "power role". If I was scum with this role, why the fuck would I ever claim it? Why would I breadcrumb it in preparation of a claim, when it will just make me look bad?

If I have a lazy team, who does that make my teammates?

The role has been used since the start, since I started the game by giving everyone 50 points.

Being able to claim that it is your role reduces the chance that your role is a different role, so it does have that advantage. The role only "makes you look bad" because you used the role in a troll fashion -- not because of the role itself.

Why didn't you correct me or Cephrir D2 when we got all excited about the Cabd wagon getting points? Or when I alluded to Vi's game where dead players could influence a similar score mechanic by using after-death power-roles?

What is the relevance of your giving 50 points to everyone?

A lazy scumteam is not a necessary condition to you being scum, so I don't think it's productive to speculate on it.

[Wisdom]

I have noticed that whenever I support you on something, you immediately question your own scumread on that slot. At least, I have attributed your shifts to my actions. This is what I mean by "poisoning the well."

This happened most saliently early today on T-Bone, and I think also on a wagon or two D2.

In this game I think I have low/negative gravitas right now and you have higher gravitas (despite your continuously complaining that you lack gravitas).

My normal town play pattern -- find town players with gravitas, support them if they sound reasonable -- does not jive with how you have played this game, so I have tried to adjust how I express myself a little bit to account for that.

What I do has nothing to do with you. And I am not buying this, it just feels like bullshit. You don't even know me, what do you care about who I vote or not? If you scumread Tbone, you try to lynch Tbone regardless of whether I unvote or not. Same with Reck, same with everyone. What you are saying makes no sense for town.

[Wisdom]

On T-Bone today you even explicitly said that you were doubting your T-Bone read in part due to my sheeping you IIRC.

No I doubted my Tbone read because it felt ridiculously easy and something felt wrong. It had nothing to do with you.

Still, that's not the point. The point is your actions make no sense.

[Wisdom]

I want to figure out MOTIVATIONS for why people are voting me, yet that's impossible to do because nobody has any reasons, apparently

No, at no point did you try and figure out motivations. The only thing you care about is how unfair it is that people are lynching you without explaining why. You are nowhere trying to understand who is hiding behind this "mislynch", as you call it.

[Iecerint]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

[Wisdom]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

IT FUCKING ANNOYS TOWN WHEN THERE'S NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST TOO

Nope, because town don't need to defend. They show they are town by being town.

[Iecerint]

And I feel like Iecerint should be way more wary of sheeping me than he is. I am used to everyone being against me, this doesn't feel right.

This is the your relevant content subsequent to my sheeping you on T-Bone.

[xRECKONERx]

@Wis: Yes, I want a case to fight against. I want something to do other than sit here and scream at people because that's all I can fucking do in the face of such stupidity. Mafia is a game about motivations and right now every person expressing a desire to want me dead has ill motivation in my mind because there's no way to hold them accountable. I find it suspicious when people townread me for no reason as well (1). I have seen scum use the lack of reasons to hide behind votes 2).

Hell, look at this post from The Reckoning III invitational. That one, and the posts following it in that game, are me, as town, freaking the fuck out over a wagon on me with no reasons on it. There are probably countless other examples, because I feel like I get wagoned out of nowhere with no reason all the goddamn time.

It's not a fucking scumtell to request actual reasons for people voting you. It's good fucking play.

[xRECKONERx]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

IT FUCKING ANNOYS TOWN WHEN THERE'S NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST TOO

Nope, because town don't need to defend. They show they are town by being town.

So in your opinion a game should just be people voting people randomly until someone asks "why" and then everyone lynches the person who asks why

SOUNDS FUCKING GREAT MAN, YOU'RE THE REAL HERO

[Wisdom]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

So me unvoting means that the player won't be lynched?

[Iecerint]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

So me unvoting means that the player won't be lynched?

If the player with the most gravitas unvotes a player, yes, that player will not be lynched.

[Wisdom]

And I feel like Iecerint should be way more wary of sheeping me than he is. I am used to everyone being against me, this doesn't feel right.

This is the your relevant content subsequent to my sheeping you on T-Bone.

Yes, this is exactly the same I am saying now. You are basing your actions on mine as if you trust I am a scumhunting god or something, when it's clear that's obviously not what you believe. Which makes your actions make absolutely no sense.

[Cephrir]

ok, let me put this another way.

What is your stance on shos vs Reck?

Ceph this is at you

My stance is that it's not really a dichotomy. Brian would rather lynch shos. I think I would rather lynch Reck, even though the prospect of losing to scum shos fills me with sadness.

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

Lack of case annoys everyone. Also, I don't think Reck's behavior over the last 5 pages is indicative of anything at all.

Is it just me, or does T-Bone disappear every time I start to question him?

[Cephrir]

Also, I am trying to meta Iec and finding he plays the same way all the time :/

[Wisdom]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

So me unvoting means that the player won't be lynched?

If the player with the most gravitas unvotes a player, yes, that player will not be lynched.

This is a scum pattern of thought.

As town, if you are scumreading the player, you can just work with the "gravitas" player and get him back on track.

It's scum who need to push lynches that are likely to go through.

[Wisdom]

So in your opinion a game should just be people voting people randomly until someone asks "why" and then everyone lynches the person who asks why

Nah, it all depends on context

I am done arguing theory with you, this only serves you trying to appear town

[Wisdom]

My stance is that it's not really a dichotomy. Brian would rather lynch shos. I think I would rather lynch Reck, even though the prospect of losing to scum shos fills me with sadness.

Stop. the. fucking. waffling.

I cannot fucking see this being town. Stop it. Take a fucking stance.

[Iecerint]

And I feel like Iecerint should be way more wary of sheeping me than he is. I am used to everyone being against me, this doesn't feel right.

This is the your relevant content subsequent to my sheeping you on T-Bone.

Yes, this is exactly the same I am saying now. You are basing your actions on mine as if you trust I am a scumhunting god or something, when it's clear that's obviously not what you believe. Which makes your actions make absolutely no sense.

If the town players in a game are just all wrong, town are going to lose regardless of my approach to the game, so that doesn't really bother me much.

Also, I think you are confusing something I said earlier. I believe that some of your pushes on players do not reflect your

beliefs

about who is scum, because I think that some of them are things you do mainly to observe the reactions of 3rd parties. But that's different from me not believing that it is a valid scumhunting practice in general.

I have tried to critique your approach a little bit, but it's clearly "your thing." If me doing my standard thing just makes you think I am scum because of the patterns you are comfortable looking for, I need to play around it.

I am fine playing as a beta.