Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[TierShift]

Uh, I don't see what it is about the wording that really implies it's a good idea to delay it insofar as you have explained it.

I guess you can't really quote the role PM, though.

Re: it proving something, you could just be the scum version of your own role. It would prove that you can target yourself, but that's just kinda uniformly rare rather than rare for scum in particular I think.

I think the scum version of my role is even more messed up than the town version, don't you think?

And? That would make you town because?

Also, no. It is a completely forced conclusion that 1-shot means "stronger the later it is used".

pedit: @tier

I'm not really sure. It would prove that I have a role that targets myself. I don't see how scum have that, though.

Wisdom, why would the mod include that the ability is 1-shot if it's supposed to be completely obscured from me?

I feel like if the Mod wanted a role whose invention gets better over time, he would just say as much in the role PM. Because most players would just use it N1 and he would waste all his potential balancing adventures for later.

Eh, I guess I'm not most players!

My team and I think there is a reason that I need to invent before receiving my role. We are hoping that waiting before inventing will give me a better role, seeing that my role PM explicitly says my action will be 1-shot. Because of this, I have not yet invented and am looking to do so this night.

Tell me something, Tier. Let's say I believe you. Let's say you are telling the truth. Let's even say that things ARE like you and your team believe and you are going to get a stronger role for waiting.

When exactly are you going to use that role? After we lose the game in lylo?

Oh nevermind. I guess you implied you receive the role immediately.

I receive it at daybreak. So not immediately.

When can you use the invention?

After receiving it, I guess?

[TierShift]

Guys I decided that I practicallly don't care
This is, in my opinion, a 1v1 between Gice and Iece.

VOTE: iece

End of story.
Step by step.

How

[Iecerint]

When can you use the invention?

After receiving it, I guess?

I thought Wisdom had somehow inferred that you could use it the same night as you used your ability. It sounds like it isn't the case because you just clarified that you get it at daybreak, though.

I don't really know how Wisdom inferred that (???), but if it were accurate, it would be inconsistent with your plan to have me track you, since you'd be targeting 2 people potentially. So I thought that would have been weird.

As it is, my main issue with your claim is that it looks tailor-made as a way to ask the town to avoid 2 lynches.

[Wisdom]

I receive it at daybreak. So not immediately.

So when would you use it then? After the game is over?

[Wisdom]

How

Have you even read?

[Wisdom]

Wisdom can't do critical thinking as town

What am I ignoring exactly?

[shos]

lol just got home and the game was open on page 139 xD
will post soon

[Iecerint]

Wisdom can't do critical thinking as town

What am I ignoring exactly?

You are positing theories that require me to have made my life hard for myself for no reason but WIFOM, which isn't something that happens very often in the real world. Additionally, you are selectively accepting evidence that supports the WIFOM-requiring theory (e.g., wiki says amnesiac works way X) while ignoring evidence to the contrary (e.g., multiple theme games have it work in way Y).

When I point something out, your response is "doesn't matter, you're scum."

It's an extremely easy way to trivialize legitimate points when someone is scum, especially if the town is frustrated and isn't very interested in thinking about such things.

[Iecerint]

lol just got home and the game was open on page 139 xD
will post soon

Not sure what you're implying here. You posted on page 155.

[Iecerint]

At 152.

lol just got home and the game was open on page 139 xD

?

[shos]

TS can that be a day action or only night action?
and because we have a flipped COP and DOCTOR and we have *TWO* extra people claiming investigative roles and this has no chance of being true.


pedit: I WAS NOT HOME.
and your wifom accusations are wifom on wifom, which is in general wifom.

[Wisdom]

He "implies" that this game is going so fast that the last time he was posting from home was on page 139.

[Iecerint]

139 is during the Wisdom/Reck stuff.

Pedit: Oh, so the other was all phone post stuff. K.

You are again ignoring T-Bone, who can also find scum if town.

All 3 non-T-Bone investigative roles are nerfed (Bins, GreyICE) or have the potential to go awry depending upon use (Iec).

You do not seem to understand what WIFOM means.

[Wisdom]

You are positing theories that require me to have made my life hard for myself for no reason but WIFOM, which isn't something that happens very often in the real world. Additionally, you are selectively accepting evidence that supports the WIFOM-requiring theory (e.g., wiki says amnesiac works way X) while ignoring evidence to the contrary (e.g., multiple theme games have it work in way Y).

What are the things I am suggesting you are doing that would make your life harder?

[TierShift]

As it is, my main issue with your claim is that it looks tailor-made as a way to ask the town to avoid 2 lynches.

I don't get it. I'm only asking you to let myself prove my role tonight. If I'm not targeting myself you can lynch the shit out of me tomorrow.

I receive it at daybreak. So not immediately.

So when would you use it then? After the game is over?

Well, if it is night-action, the game could potentially be over when I use it.
If it is day-action, which I'm hoping for, I'm going to use it during day 4.

How

Have you even read?

Actually no but I don't see how the claims conflict. There is a large amount of investigatives, but that is not impossible. Have you read hilariously unbalanced mafia? I would argue that that would have been balanced with one or two fewer investigatives .

[TierShift]

TS can that be a day action or only night action?

Not specified.

Shos, you

were

in HUM. Do you agree with my assessment of that setup?

[Wisdom]

Hilariously unbalanced mafia is a) Bastard and b) a game that says it in the fucking title that it's unbalanced.

Did you seriously just use it as an example?

[Wisdom]

But yeah you are fucking scum if you are saying that it's feasible IN A TEAM MAFIA GAME that we have a cop+doc+grey's role+tracker, all town.

[Wisdom]

I don't get it. I'm only asking you to let myself prove my role tonight. If I'm not targeting myself you can lynch the shit out of me tomorrow.

So waste a track just to check something that is not alignment indicative.

Same bullshit as Ceph's bullshit.

[Iecerint]

WIFOM means that scum can do the dumb thing sometimes just to argue that they would never something so dumb as scum. An example would be if T-Bone said he would never claim to roleblock Rhinox if scum.

There are ways to evaluate that kind of argument, such as whether it's really true that there's no benefit in doing so (e.g., in the T-Bone->Rhinox claim case, fear and knowledge of the tracker, so it has the benefit of avoiding a tracker result) or whether it makes sense for town to do it regardless of whether it makes sense for scum to do it (e.g., in this game, the answer in the same situation is no). You can also assess the degree of risk scum would take in doing the dumb thing, or whether scum would just be dumb by accident.

Wisdom has posited a few different things, but an example of a ridiculous version is the idea that I am a tracker who claimed a version of tracker that is different from what I actually am. This gives me no benefit on its own and makes me trappable, so, while trivially "possible," it is not a very likely scenario.

[Wisdom]

Well, if it is night-action, the game could potentially be over when I use it.

So you're telling me you decided to wager it all on it being a day action instead of just using it on N2, for example.

[Iecerint]

I don't get it. I'm only asking you to let myself prove my role tonight. If I'm not targeting myself you can lynch the shit out of me tomorrow.

So waste a track just to check something that is not alignment indicative.

Same bullshit as Ceph's bullshit.

The deal with Ceph was that I wanted to lynch T-Bone because T-Bone-Scum can nullify Grey/Iec night actions. Cephrir suggested forcing T-Bone to take a confirmable, benign block as a way around this. So the intent there was to prevent T-Bone from causing shenanigans, not to "confirm" something.

[Wisdom]

Which is bullshit because if he is town you are stopping him from blocking scum.

[Iecerint]

And yeah, this game is not going to be bastard due to Team Mafia. Relevant to why I don't think TierShift's invention would secretly get stronger.

We don't even really know Bins's ability. She might have only gotten guilties on people who had performed kills, for example. The old game had a role like that IIRC.

I think Grey is town, so. D:

[TierShift]

Hilariously unbalanced mafia is a) Bastard and b) a game that says it in the fucking title that it's unbalanced.

Did you seriously just use it as an example?

I don't give a shit what the title says. I'm saying that it would have been balanced with a few fewer investigatives, regardless of what it used to be.

But yeah you are fucking scum if you are saying that it's feasible IN A TEAM MAFIA GAME that we have a cop+doc+grey's role+tracker, all town.

Cop is nerfed
doc is nerfed
grey's investigative value is limited
only the tracker isn't

The thing I'm having much more trouble with is the supposed town RB. I'm much more expecting that on the scum side, seeing the town is quite strong if all these town roles are true.

Even if one is false, the RB is still much more town power than any of grey/tracker so I really don't get how you conclude T-bone (and to a lesser extent grey) has to be town and Iece has to be scum