White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 5.03

Not Voting (5) - Ankamius, BlueBloodedToffee, Cogito Ergo Sum, ika, Regfan

With 5 alive, it will take 3 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 29, 2015, at 3:30 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-29 15:30:00).

[ika]

beep boop

ank has wisdom been reading this game at all?

(congrads on win btw)

[Ankamius]

Wisdom has been fully caught up for a lot of the game since he replaced in, yes. I just haven't been posting what he has been saying.

[Regfan]

I'm out at a friends party all of today, will be getting to this tomorrow when I get home from it, likely very hungover.

Would really appreciate no one vote in the meantime (Looking at you Ika) this is lylo and we've got two weeks, there's no reason to rush here and the longer it plays out the easier it will be to narrow down the scum-team since scum are unable to buss in this position.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

[quote="In post 1996, BlueBloodedToffee]
Ank, what do you make of CES refusing to choose between these two wagons for the whole of D3?[/quote]
That's even scummier nonsense than you claiming credit for the Anenlynch. My position on the ikawagon was perfectly clear and there was never any worry that it would actually go through; I saw no reason to rush the ikalynch.

BBT, are you genuinely claiming that you can't imagine a reason why scum would keep a town ika alive? There's a really obvious motive if you're town.

It's also silly to claim the Antiherokill points to me - if I were scum, I kill him the previous Night, just after he's spearheaded the Anenlynch; I certainly don't kill Zach, make a big deal about looking at the nightkills and then kill him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ika, why do you think Ank is town?

[ika]

Ika, why do you think Ank is town?

before i answer something that should be obvious, why is he scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's even scummier nonsense than you claiming credit for the Anenlynch. My position on the ikawagon was perfectly clear and there was never any worry that it would actually go through; I saw no reason to rush the ikalynch.

BBT, are you genuinely claiming that you can't imagine a reason why scum would keep a town ika alive? There's a really obvious motive if you're town.

It's also silly to claim the Antiherokill points to me - if I were scum, I kill him the previous Night, just after he's spearheaded the Anenlynch; I certainly don't kill Zach, make a big deal about looking at the nightkills and then kill him.

It's not scummy to want credit for that. I want credit for how well I have played in this game when it's all over. I have played the perfect game so far.

Tell me CES, if I was scum with Anen; why would I leave the ika wagon to join the Anen wagon? The ika wagon I had been pushing for no less than 2 game days. It makes no sense for me to bus in that situation, at all. All I had to do, as scum, was sit on ika.

You can say whatever you like, but you didn't vote. And your vote being missing when those were the two leading wagons is by far and away the most important piece of information that needs to be considered.

Yes, I cannot imagine why scum would keep an almost universally town read person alive. It makes no sense at all. Care to explain that one for me?

No, you kill him when he is longer of use to you. He was no doubt coming for you toDay; no doubt at all. Tell me, if I'm scum, why the fuck do I kill Anti when I know he will join me in lynching you?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It's not scummy to want credit for that. I want credit for how well I have played in this game when it's all over. I have played the perfect game so far.

Tunneling townies and failing to get them lynched is not exactly a novel scum technique.

Tell me CES, if I was scum with Anen; why would I leave the ika wagon to join the Anen wagon? The ika wagon I had been pushing for no less than 2 game days. It makes no sense for me to bus in that situation, at all. All I had to do, as scum, was sit on ika.

The Aneninenlynch was inevitable; I had pretty much pointed out this exact thing even before Aneninen unvoted ika; there was no downside to your move, it gave you a chance to score some brownie points and it allows you to engage in this pedantic scorekeeping where I was happy with the Anenlynch for most of the Day whilst you kept pushing townies and somehow you're making out that my behaviour is scum-motivated.

Yes, I cannot imagine why scum would keep an almost universally town read person alive. It makes no sense at all. Care to explain that one for me?

Scum literally just need a single wrong vote Today. If you were town and ika was town, scum would absolutely want to keep alive two impulsive townies that think the other is scum.

No, you kill him when he is longer of use to you. He was no doubt coming for you toDay; no doubt at all.

I think Yesterday would've gone much easier without Antihero pushing me-Regfan for most of the Day. Can you really say with a straight face that Antihero being alive Yesterday over Zach was beneficial to me? If I was scum, it was a perfect opportunity to get rid of Antihero without drawing suspicion.

Tell me, if I'm scum, why the fuck do I kill Anti when I know he will join me in lynching you?

Because he was obviously town and probably most importantly, you had to kill someone. If you kill ika, then that raises the question of why scum didn't want the BBT-ika conflict. Everyone else has varying degrees of suspicion on them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tunneling townies and failing to get them lynched is not exactly a novel scum technique.

No CES, if I was tunneling I couldn't have lynched scum now, could I?

I feel like I have provided a pretty good case for you being scum. If I think I have caught scum, you can bet your ass I'm not letting that read go.

The Aneninenlynch was inevitable; I had pretty much pointed out this exact thing even before Aneninen unvoted ika; there was no downside to your move, it gave you a chance to score some brownie points and it allows you to engage in this pedantic scorekeeping where I was happy with the Anenlynch for most of the Day whilst you kept pushing townies and somehow you're making out that my behaviour is scum-motivated.

You can say this as much as you like; it doesn't make it true. Anen was not a sure lynch, not by a long shot. You say you were happy with the Anen lynch, your actions tell a different story though.

Don't act like I haven't explained how it makes you scum.

Scum literally just need a single wrong vote Today. If you were town and ika was town, scum would absolutely want to keep alive two impulsive townies that think the other is scum.

I didn't think of this. Fair point. I like to think a little better of myself then to insta-vote in LyLo though.

I think Yesterday would've gone much easier without Antihero pushing me-Regfan for most of the Day. Can you really say with a straight face that Antihero being alive Yesterday over Zach was beneficial to me? If I was scum, it was a perfect opportunity to get rid of Antihero without drawing suspicion.

You had no way of knowing Anti would be pushing that angle Yesterday. This point is worth even less when Anti then jumps on the elk/BBT train.

I think Anti being dead toDay is beneficial to you. Hugely so.

Because he was obviously town and probably most importantly, you had to kill someone. If you kill ika, then that raises the question of why scum didn't want the BBT-ika conflict. Everyone else has varying degrees of suspicion on them.

Who cares about suspicion? If I'm scum, I only need Anti's vote on you and then me and my buddy hammer you, right? So, again, why do I kill Anti as scum?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No CES, if I was tunneling I couldn't have lynched scum now, could I?

This is what I meant when I said pedantic scorekeeping.

You had no way of knowing Anti would be pushing that angle Yesterday. This point is worth even less when Anti then jumps on the elk/BBT train.

Why risk it? Antihero pushing me Yesterday could've straight-up lost me the game if I were scum. Zach would've been perfectly willing to vote elk.

I think Anti being dead toDay is beneficial to you. Hugely so.

Anti being gone does make me less likely to be mislynched, yes. After the elkflip I was quite pessimistic about Town's chances but I grew quite a bit more optimistic when I realized that scum would have to upset the status quo by killing someone.

Who cares about suspicion? If I'm scum, I only need Anti's vote on you and then me and my buddy hammer you, right? So, again, why do I kill Anti as scum?

But you had to kill someone. And anyone else dying would've looked really weird.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ika, why do you think Ank is town?

before i answer something that should be obvious, why is he scum?

Probably the most important thing is just that I think you and Regfan are town. The way he acted w.r.t. elk Yesterday (first being unwilling to engage with Regfan's CES-elk stuff, however weak it was, and then just voting elk like that); his play Yesterday also generally felt fairly lacklustre, even taking into account the migraine, the mollie-thing end of Day 2 also points against him and a recurring pattern where he talks about team mates' reads and doesn't really engage the game (the "all major wagons (Psyche, elk, ika) so far were on town"-thing on D1 being the main example).

I'm feeling more and more inclined to vote BBT though, so I'm not sure how much it matters.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This just occured to me: BBT thinks ika is scum who's widely townread, that there was a genuine possibility that ika would get lynched over Aneninen on D3 and yet he's accusing me of sitting back and letting that happen as scum. But if it's me-ika, I'd obviously much prefer to keep the widely townread partner alive. His view of the game doesn't make sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Of course it does.

In this set-up, I would argue scum would be extremely reluctant to bus.

You showed signs of this when ika/Anen were the leading wagons. Despite 'scum reading' Anen.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I asked Titus to elaborate on her VCA and she has done so.

I'm now happy to share it.

Big post incoming.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

In this set-up, I would argue scum would be extremely reluctant to bus.

And you're arguing that this extends to a situation where both lynch options are scum? I don't even get why I'd be reluctant to bus if I got ika as a buddy. You're hiding behind a general principle with zero regard for whether it applies to the situation.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Titus thinks we should be looking for partners, she points me in the direction of post 66.

Vote Count 1.02

ika (4) - Aeronaut, Cheery Dog, Llamarble, BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Psyche
Cheery Dog (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Llamarble (1) - Zachrulez
Oversoul (1) - theelkspeaks
theelkspeaks (1) - Regfan
Zachrulez (1) - Oversoul

Not Voting (3) - Ankamius, ika, TellTaleHeart

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

An all-town wagon on ika. She points to all of these people being dead except for me. She points to Anen voting for me for ika.

She also points to ika not voting and states that's his MO. He doesn't show up until you make him show up; she says when ika is scum he must be forced to play pro-town and he hasn't had to do that this game.

She then points to 798.

Vote Count 2.05

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Tammy, Ankamius, ika, Antihero
Ankamius (2) - Zachrulez, Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (2) - BlueBloodedToffee, theelkspeaks
Cheery Dog (1) - Regfan
Regfan (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (1) - Psyche

In this VC, she says CES and Ank were trading blows. ika is bussing and Tammy and Anti are town.ika has been dealing with me tunneling him all game so it makes sense if ika is the scum bussing here if the CES wagon has legs. They can't lose two scum, so ika must be on the CES lynch to try and dispel my suspicions of him. A hard defence is too much of a risk for ika; she thinks ika thinks so poorly of her VCA that he thinks an obvious bus vote can fool her.

Skip to VC 2.13 (976).

Vote Count 2.13

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee
Psyche (2) - Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
Cheery Dog (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks
Regfan (1) - Cheery Dog

Not Voting (2) - Psyche, Tammy

ika takes his vote off of CES when I join the wagon and makes a big fuss over me being scum going after CES. ika's posting is reactionary because he is trying to protect CES. We look at elk voting ika, what do you know, he's mislynched.

We see the foundation of Anen suspicion. Zach and Reg are on way before the Anen wagon becomes popular, we also see the beginning of CES' CD push to distract from his all town wagon.

She fast forwards a few VC's to I believe 1027.

Vote Count 2.15

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Aneninen (2) - Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
Cheery Dog (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen, Tammy

Zach switches and Anen becomes paralyzed; he can't do anything with the wagons. If there were no scum on CD, he could jump on that wagon and try to save his buddy. Yet, if Anen switches, it becomes an obvious counter-wagon to CES. Instead, more lurking from Anen. Plus, immediately voting CD after he has just voted your partner is a red neon sign. Best to lay low because his wagon was disintegrating and Zach was voting town.

Skip to VC 2.20 (1156)

Vote Count 2.20

Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
Cheery Dog (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (1) - Tammy

Reg switches. Anen cannot stay here anymore. He can't get on with ika because two scum are on the wagon and that might derail the CD wagon by drawing too much attention to it. Anen needs to distance in a manner where ika is not likely to get lynched, voting ika here makes sense in that context. The slots have had little to no interaction yet ika is town reading Anen (but hammers him anyway)

VC 2.25 (1275)

Vote Count 2.25

Cheery Dog (5) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan, Tammy, ika
Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee, Cheery Dog
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (0)

We get CD getting higher than CES. ika make sure to get on at the end. He's not going to bus at this point given the wagons are so close to lynch yet he has to move to get a lynch off at all. If ika sits off the wagon, he's going to look like he is protecting one of them. Doubly so given his penchant for hammer. Anti then hammers.

Day 3

1606

Vote Count 3.10

Aneninen (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez
ika (3) - Aneninen, theelkspeaks, BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

This VC tells the story of D3. Scum couldn't get a wagon on town without it looking obvious. CES voting anyone would practically townfirm them given the suspicion he was under. Enter ika's inexplicable town read on Anen despite Anen tunneling him for the past few days. Anen has to continue his bus from yesterday. The rest of the names are squarely town.

1707

Vote Count 3.12

Aneninen (3) - Ankamius, Antihero, Zachrulez
BlueBloodedToffee (2) - ika, Aneninen
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (2) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan

This VC is scums attempt to establish a counter wagon. Notice who is still not voting. CES and Reg. This looks like a desperate attempt to save Anen. Yet all 3 scum cannot be on the wagon that counters him. CES cannot bus. Reg's absence is a little worrying here but he was pushing Anen much earlier as a counter. Yet, CES is actively posting without voting. Reg has a couple of votes and indicates a willingness to vote Anen. I move onto Anen when he votes me and ika quick-hammers.

ika is professing a town read up and down on the slot. Yet he hammers Anen, why? They are buddies. The votes all serve to protect each other from harm. ika KNOWS if he doesn't hammer his town read that her town read on him evaporates. She has tunneled him to the ends of the earth for not hammering buddies in the past despite a tendency to hammer everything with a pulse.

Day 4

1855

Vote Count 4.05

Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks
theelkspeaks (1) - Regfan

Not Voting (2) - Ankamius, ika

This is how the day started. Yet, when the elk wagon comes from nowhere, CES hammers without hesitation. Why? Because Elk/BBT would be a disaster in LyLo for their scum team. If they kill Elk or BBT, it points heavily towards a CES/ika scum team. It's risky but ika got away with shitty hammers.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why would you disagree with any of that? Tunneling blindly on ika and me seems right up your alley.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

She hadn't elaborated and I didn't understand some of the things she was saying.

There are also little things like the amount of weight she puts on the all-town wagon on ika. I disagreed with that because it was early game and didn't mean anything but she thinks there is something to it.

I did say she agreed with everything I thought, I just didn't like her reasoning/some of her thoughts.

[ika]

you guys can wall post ech other to the end of time you you guys can throw doan and vote each ohter and force a 1v1

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No response to Titus' VCA you so desperately wanted ika?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

you guys can wall post ech other to the end of time you you guys can throw doan and vote each ohter and force a 1v1

It's tempting but I don't really want to rush other people into voting.

If you don't want to read our wall posts, #2012-2015 and the fact that Titus' VCA takes you-me as its starting point should still tell you plenty.

[ika]

No response to Titus' VCA you so desperately wanted ika?

All i have to say is team mafia nightless. I was echoing ank of wanting to see it and that you werent fakign it

you guys can wall post ech other to the end of time you you guys can throw doan and vote each ohter and force a 1v1

It's tempting but I don't really want to rush other people into voting.

If you don't want to read our wall posts, #2012-2015 and the fact that Titus' VCA takes you-me as its starting point should still tell you plenty.

i dont get why your trying to convince me of scum!ank still. you realize if BBt is scuma s you say the final scum is moot point? also you gys voting each other and making it apparent its not townvtown give us better ideas so i find you two witholding votes at this point to be dumb

its a simple thing here:
A) your both town: well good job you fucked it
B) your both scum: well good job you guys fucked yourself
C) one of you is scum: we get info and we can look from there

both of you are unconvincing of the other to me that one is scum so either you gusy cross vote and put up or i am going to continue to ignore both of you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't like the position you're taking ika.

I also don't like how you're refusing to comment on anything.

Where the fuck are Ank and Reg?

[ika]

I don't like the position you're taking ika.

I also don't like how you're refusing to comment on anything.

Where the fuck are Ank and Reg?

then vote me for it and either scum claim to me or find out your wrong and lose the damned game or kindly fuck off. i really dont care what you thinkn about my positioning and what im doing and i really dont care for people who care more about their ego then listening for once and actualy taking into consideration other factors

REGFAN: when you get in here tell us who you think the scum pair is