Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[ChannelDelibird]

oh, right

you're probably scum and it's WIFOM

that's right

As a strong town role, incentivised to stay hidden, whose sign is almost certainly now known to scum, who will automatically match sign on my target Tonight, I guess you could say that I'm an IC. So shove it

[ChannelDelibird]

Aronis just claiming vaguely and then disappearing is scummy. I think I'll revote him before I go to bed, but ultimately I'd be reasonably happy with whichever of him/4nx dies. It needs to be one of them, though.

[Titus]

@Gamma, Are you seriously arguing Aronis thought two town watchers? Also did you not see where I proved through Espy's actions that Adonis must be lying.

[Oversoul]

=====[]
[]=====

It must be done

[Titus]

CDB unvoted Oversoul.

[Gammagooey]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

[Titus]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

Watcher is Watcher is watcher. That's a stretch and you know it Gamma.

Let's track his actions for a moment. He naked pushes me and Espy saying we're the best choices. Given that's the only thing he's saying at the start of Major Day 2, logical thing (given his claim) is that he's implying a guilty on us.

Yet, later Espy claims to have traced me. Not a word from Aronis. Not a word. Instead, he continues to tunnel me. If Espy's selections were indeed based on his results (namely watching himself), that implies that Espy and I both visited him. However, unless Espy lied OUT OF THE BLUE. Then, Aronis's vote pattern CANNOT be the result of him self-watching. If Aronis result is Not based on his actions, then what is it based on?

Nothing. He's guilty.

[ChannelDelibird]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

I think the larger relevance of Aronis's claim vs TTH's is that mine is also a thing. Does hitomod allow for the possibility of an activated town Watcher, full town Tracker and a town self-Watcher in the same game? That's potentially a lot of night actions being followed by town. However, more important to read him on play than modWIFOM, and his play is shite.

[Untrod Tripod]

oh, right

you're probably scum and it's WIFOM

that's right

As a strong town role, incentivised to stay hidden, whose sign is almost certainly now known to scum, who will automatically match sign on my target Tonight, I guess you could say that I'm an IC. So shove it

well we can jerk each other off in the dead PT then

if there is one

or just later in general

[Untrod Tripod]

wow titus I'm so glad you have time to argue this setup speculation nonsense with one of your stated scumreads but don't have time to actually argue for lynching that scumread

really warms my heart

[Titus]

wow titus I'm so glad you have time to argue this setup speculation nonsense with one of your stated scumreads but don't have time to actually argue for lynching that scumread

really warms my heart

Aronis I can get lynched. Gamma I can't. If Gamma busses or tries to persuasively to convince me he's town he should have that opportunity. I gave you an opportunity, it's only fair that I give him one. One of the major complaints against me is that I'm a tunneller. Is it likely he'll convince me? No. I thought the same about you though.

[Untrod Tripod]

although I guess, CDB, you could just pray for the doc protection

unless this "I'm gonna die!" posturing is really doing you any favors

(protip: it's not!)

[Oversoul]

=====[]
[]=====

It must be done

[Titus]

I'm getting to work on my read wall now.

[ChannelDelibird]

although I guess, CDB, you could just pray for the doc protection

unless this "I'm gonna die!" posturing is really doing you any favors

(protip: it's not!)

I'm not actually convinced that I'm doomed Tonight (depends on if we lynch scum Today and how scared of my likely targets the scum are, plus there are plenty of claims out there) but it's certainly a possibility given the Boon/general strength of role and Fenchurch was keen for me to restate the key townreads.

But bear in mind that doc protects only against one kill attempt. Scum can force the issue on whoever they need most dead, if they want.

[Oversoul]

I mean the night kill tonight is {UT + some other lucky bastard} (please be me)

[Gammagooey]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

Watcher is Watcher is watcher. That's a stretch and you know it Gamma.

Let's track his actions for a moment. He naked pushes me and Espy saying we're the best choices. Given that's the only thing he's saying at the start of Major Day 2, logical thing (given his claim) is that he's implying a guilty on us.

Yet, later Espy claims to have traced me. Not a word from Aronis. Not a word. Instead, he continues to tunnel me. If Espy's selections were indeed based on his results (namely watching himself), that implies that Espy and I both visited him. However, unless Espy lied OUT OF THE BLUE. Then, Aronis's vote pattern CANNOT be the result of him self-watching. If Aronis result is Not based on his actions, then what is it based on?

Nothing. He's guilty.

okay okay okay sure fine whatever get ready for LEARNING

If we put all your recent posts together, I can see that you're making the following assumptions.
-That there aren't two very similar roles in the game
-That aronis also wouldn't think that there aren't two very similar roles in the game, and would think TTH was scum for claiming watcher and counterclaim him
-That his vote history was largely based on his role and the results he received from it
-and that him tunnelling on you is also because of role results.

Personally, I think that pretty much all of those assumptions are bad assumptions to make, but that's not the point.

The point is that watching you take some piece of information, make several different assumptions from it while not explicitly stating any of them, and just stating the conclusion you get from all those assumptions is incredibly hard to follow, difficult to talk to you about, and given that it took several posts to even GET to the assumptions you're making that I generally disagree with, very very frustrating for most people to try to process your play or engage you with why they think you're wrong/scum/whatever.

Also as my tangential sidenote for the evening, singer wears her emotions on her sleeve and I think that the tone of her posts towards you is strongly indicative of her actually believing that you're scum and trying to convince other people of it, as well as trying to catch you in lies/contradictions/still whatever.

[Gammagooey]

now that that's done

HEY ARONIS

get in here and fullclaim your role and all your results in the next hour or get dead

[Titus]

Spoiler: Read Wall, Short Version off the Cuff

4nxi3ty. (Deasvail.) - Been done in detail. Wagon matches Bulba's too much. Claim matches my informed townie status (which Goo is right doesn't clear him but that is just an additional indicator to me). Traces make sense as Viktor clears. Confident enough to not lynch 4ity.
Actiondan. - I wish he'd post more, so I hesitate to call him town. Yet, gun to my head, town.
Aronis. - Scum, faked self-watcher horribly.
ChannelDelibird. - Tracker most likely. I have minor doubts, namely that he didn't think of follow the cop and fight off his own boon. Still he's in no touchy category with 4ity. Goo's analysis is right on in that I don't clear 4ity it's just the wagon, plus 4ity's actions that clear him IMO. But from a pure theoretical perspective Goo is right.
Cheetory6. - More likely than not town. I have nagging moments of paranoia (hint they're when we go back and forth and I feel Cheetory is stating/believing something untrue).
Espeonage. - It's been 24 hours since his promised wall catchup, not a fan. He traced me. Suspicion or blocking Singer. If we were looking for scum OFF the Bulba wagon, my gut says Espy. 6057 is what the ever loving fuck.
Formerfish. (Marquis.) - Town based on Marquis's posting. I like what FF says when he's here, plus his push on AD. I'd like to see him flesh that out more tomorrow.
Gammagooey. - Ugh. I thought the push on UT was really town, but that's when I agreed with Gamma that UT was scum. Given UT looks town, Gamma's push looks worse in hindsight. Plus his reluctance to even discuss scum pushing Bulbazak makes me not feel good about him. I like his attempts to make me a better player, but I'm not sure how alignment indicative that is. Gamma's been real set here. Really like 6501. I'm not the only one who didn't see total tone town in Espy.
Mastin2 - Obvtown Doctor, but jeezus honey get in here. I can't do this on my own.
Oversoul. (Tammy.) - Tammy looked pretty town. I was waffling a bit mentally on Oversoul because of her behavior post Bulba lynch, but she's come around.
Shadoweh. - Townblocks R US. No touchy without a strong case. I think her insistance on Aronis is very town motivated.
singersigner. (Empire.) (Zar.) - I think Singer and I have said enough about each other.
TellTaleHeart. (Antihero.) - Prob town since claim.
Titus. - The confusiest town to ever town. Informed townie.
Untrod Tripod. - Probably Alquin. His interactions when he actually started explaining things to me were much better. Particularly 6501. I like where he lays out the Gamma thought process in the post. It's snarky but what can I say, I like the snark. 6060 is comedic gold. The wagon falling apart on UT after I unvoted also makes it look like a scum wagon.
Vezokpiraka - It's crunch time. Why do I still not have strong feelings about Vezok?

That's the short version. I'll do more later tonight.

[Titus]

That is unless we hammer.

[Untrod Tripod]

although I guess, CDB, you could just pray for the doc protection

unless this "I'm gonna die!" posturing is really doing you any favors

(protip: it's not!)

I'm not actually convinced that I'm doomed Tonight (depends on if we lynch scum Today and how scared of my likely targets the scum are, plus there are plenty of claims out there) but it's certainly a possibility given the Boon/general strength of role and Fenchurch was keen for me to restate the key townreads.

But bear in mind that doc protects only against one kill attempt. Scum can force the issue on whoever they need most dead, if they want.

well considering that they can only target me and one other player tonight, yeah you're p dead

MAN I BET WAY BACK AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME WHEN WE DECIDED THAT DOC PROTECTS WOULD ONLY PREVENT ONE KILL INSTEAD OF TWO NO ONE THOUGHT OF THIS BEING AN ISSUE

OH WAY

I DID

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote

moar titus thoughts

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: Aronis

Even more Titus posts are not a reason to put Aronis back to L-3. Anyway, I'll probably go to bed soon and I think this is where my vote is staying.

[Titus]

@UT, You just put Aronis at L-3. They are coming.

Okie, dokie. Is there anything specific you want me to focus on or just more of everything? If it's more of everything, it'll be spoilered.

P-edit: Yes. Thanks CDB.

Aronis at L-2.

[Untrod Tripod]

I literally don't care if he actually gets lynched

I don't think we deserve a win in the first place, so I'm going to draw out the day as much as possible since you chucklefucks are dead set on a lurker lynch instead of a lynch on scum