Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 1.17

Bookitty (4)

- elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination, Yukari

[L-3]

Metal Sonic (4)

- singersigner, Frogging Mollie, ika, Bellaphant

[L-3]

Yukari (2)

- ZZZX, Hydrangra

White Night Imagination (1)

- Plum
Bellaphant -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -
ZZZX -


Not Voting (2): Bookitty, Grib

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-06-04 11:00:00) from now, or June 4th, 11:00 AM CST (GMT-6).

Plum is V/LA until May 25

singersigner is V/LA until May 26th

Keep posts in your hydra accounts when applicable, please.

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[White Night Imagination]

pieguyn, I'm looking at the Taylor Swift game right now (viewtopic.php?p=6698525&user_select[]=23663#p6698525). You and MS were pretty on point with reads there. MS doesn't post as much as you do but his reads posts is pretty excellent when he does as he nails three scum right away. The ISO is very calm and controlled though, no crazy emotional outbursts.

So are you basing your defense of him one knowing him well? Can you link to games where as town he's had emotional breakdowns?

yeah, I know MS well. usually he gets more emotional the more invested he gets in games. his immediate reaction to mollie/Yukari at first pinged bc it looked over the top, but this was before I read mollie - after I reread her, though, I saw she really did not have any sort of good reason for scum reading him here, and that this was the case ever since the beginning of the game (her first post where she mentions him she claims he has "yet to make a correct statement about their history", without explaining which statements were incorrect or why they were incorrect, or why MS had to be scum for it as opposed to town misinterpreting or misremembering something). keep in mind, this is MOLLIE, someone he's familiar with and who is familiar with him, pushing this. so I absolutely buy that he saw mollie pushing him for shit reasons and then saw Yukari pushing him for similarly shit reasons and saw the "writing on the wall", so to speak. this is even more so the case for *reasons* which I can not elaborate on.

now that mollie is essentially saying that she'll blacklist him if he's town here, and continuing to push him over shit reasons, it's even worse. here someone is who he usually loves playing with and they're 1. claiming he'd do at least one thing that is dishonorable (throwing their town game to support their scum game and lying about listmod actions), 2. threatening to blacklist him, and so forth. it completely makes sense that he would get hurt on a personal level by something like that and respond emotionally to it.

there aren't really any games of his that look similar to this. this is a very unusual circumstance and not something that's ever happened before - I'm going off what I know of his play in order to make a judgement call here. there is this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=25044

while he didn't have a "breakdown" to the extent he had here, or in the same way as he did here, he got really emotional in this game bc he had a town read on Bulbazak (it was a publicly announced bastard game, Bulba was his mason partner) and had to defend it to the death against practically the entire game pushing Bulba as scum. 2656 (iso #628) immediately comes to mind and is the post I always remember when I think MS can get emotional as town, but this also came after basically the entire game of them constantly repeating Bulba was town and appealing to other ppl to get votes off him. from an in-game POV, it was obvious he was extremely invested in the read here and was posting emotionally for the duration of it. while I didn't remember this post specific OTOH, there's also 2297 (iso #515); you can pretty obviously see he's frustrated here

I realize this is really shit for meta'ing bc it's difficult to get a feel for it unless you actually see it. it's more about the general flow of the game as opposed to any specific posts. plus it was a hydra (and it's difficult to tell MS/om posts apart unless you're familiar with how MS/om write; iirc om usually posted in all lowercase). I apologize for this but it's really the best example I can think of and the only completed game where I remember him having a breakdown as town.

Taylor Swift is a weird game bc the majority of the posts were me (the majority of posts - pretty much everything on D1 sans a few posts was me, then everything on D2 forward was him although it's only a few posts again) and both of us had flaked at the end, so he didn't really do much. he wasn't invested in that game, plus that was a really easy going and generally not-frustrating game, so I would not have expected him to get frustrated there under any circumstances.

the game where MS/mollie hydra'd is almost certainly this, unless they hydra'd in a different game and I wasn't aware of it (bonus points for me being the mod \o/):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23595

I'm not sure how helpful this will be bc it's really not clear "this is where he did this before" and it's more about the general mindset/range of behaviors I'd expect from him. but I hope it at least makes sense - he is capable of getting emotional/invested in games to the point of breaking down out of frustration, and while it didn't look similar to here, there are contextual reasons that make me think the way he acted here makes sense.

[ZZZX]

i'm pretty ok with rolling over and lynching MS on one condition: when he flips town, we flashlynch the fuck out of mollie tomorrow with no second thoughts

*if* he flips scum, i'm open to suggestions on what i should have to do. although keep in mind i'm not the only one in this slot so don't suggest anything too unreasonable!

massive scum points. I dont even need to tell you whats wrong with that post.

Why hte fuck should we flash wagon mollie here? Mollie isnt a god at reading metal. Shes pretty good but not well enough to make it that mislynch = death. only scum goes that way.

I don't like you giving scum points to my 2nd best friend. And he is helping me from mean Mollie.

(First place goes to you, but your lurking is damn )

I aint lurking, Just sleeping (and yesterday did some offical paper work and got all dem bloodz taken from me.)

I am not sure about your 2nd friend here, Must read him well.

[ZZZX]

pieguyn, I'm looking at the Taylor Swift game right now (viewtopic.php?p=6698525&user_select[]=23663#p6698525). You and MS were pretty on point with reads there. MS doesn't post as much as you do but his reads posts is pretty excellent when he does as he nails three scum right away. The ISO is very calm and controlled though, no crazy emotional outbursts.

So are you basing your defense of him one knowing him well? Can you link to games where as town he's had emotional breakdowns?

yeah, I know MS well. usually he gets more emotional the more invested he gets in games. his immediate reaction to mollie/Yukari at first pinged bc it looked over the top, but this was before I read mollie - after I reread her, though, I saw she really did not have any sort of good reason for scum reading him here, and that this was the case ever since the beginning of the game (her first post where she mentions him she claims he has "yet to make a correct statement about their history", without explaining which statements were incorrect or why they were incorrect, or why MS had to be scum for it as opposed to town misinterpreting or misremembering something). keep in mind, this is MOLLIE, someone he's familiar with and who is familiar with him, pushing this. so I absolutely buy that he saw mollie pushing him for shit reasons and then saw Yukari pushing him for similarly shit reasons and saw the "writing on the wall", so to speak. this is even more so the case for *reasons* which I can not elaborate on.

now that mollie is essentially saying that she'll blacklist him if he's town here, and continuing to push him over shit reasons, it's even worse. here someone is who he usually loves playing with and they're 1. claiming he'd do at least one thing that is dishonorable (throwing their town game to support their scum game and lying about listmod actions), 2. threatening to blacklist him, and so forth. it completely makes sense that he would get hurt on a personal level by something like that and respond emotionally to it.

there aren't really any games of his that look similar to this. this is a very unusual circumstance and not something that's ever happened before - I'm going off what I know of his play in order to make a judgement call here. there is this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=25044

while he didn't have a "breakdown" to the extent he had here, or in the same way as he did here, he got really emotional in this game bc he had a town read on Bulbazak (it was a publicly announced bastard game, Bulba was his mason partner) and had to defend it to the death against practically the entire game pushing Bulba as scum. 2656 (iso #628) immediately comes to mind and is the post I always remember when I think MS can get emotional as town, but this also came after basically the entire game of them constantly repeating Bulba was town and appealing to other ppl to get votes off him. from an in-game POV, it was obvious he was extremely invested in the read here and was posting emotionally for the duration of it. while I didn't remember this post specific OTOH, there's also 2297 (iso #515); you can pretty obviously see he's frustrated here

I realize this is really shit for meta'ing bc it's difficult to get a feel for it unless you actually see it. it's more about the general flow of the game as opposed to any specific posts. plus it was a hydra (and it's difficult to tell MS/om posts apart unless you're familiar with how MS/om write; iirc om usually posted in all lowercase). I apologize for this but it's really the best example I can think of and the only completed game where I remember him having a breakdown as town.

Taylor Swift is a weird game bc the majority of the posts were me (the majority of posts - pretty much everything on D1 sans a few posts was me, then everything on D2 forward was him although it's only a few posts again) and both of us had flaked at the end, so he didn't really do much. he wasn't invested in that game, plus that was a really easy going and generally not-frustrating game, so I would not have expected him to get frustrated there under any circumstances.

the game where MS/mollie hydra'd is almost certainly this, unless they hydra'd in a different game and I wasn't aware of it (bonus points for me being the mod \o/):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23595

I'm not sure how helpful this will be bc it's really not clear "this is where he did this before" and it's more about the general mindset/range of behaviors I'd expect from him. but I hope it at least makes sense - he is capable of getting emotional/invested in games to the point of breaking down out of frustration, and while it didn't look similar to here, there are contextual reasons that make me think the way he acted here makes sense.

If I read this correct then you do tell that they used shit reasons to push metal,

Why did you scum read me when i said they were using shit reasons however? This is something I wana know.

[ZZZX]

zzzx, why you voting yukaria? Especially if wni has 'massive scum points?'

Grib, why?

because scum points <> surely scum. Scum points is basically my read shifting a little to the scummy side. etc

on that note I really want to vote bookitty but most of the wagon doesnt look too promising frm my side...

[ZZZX]

I'm still up for a Boo lynch - and her flipping scum would at the least make it obvious MS is town here. what do you make of ZZZX? I fucking hated his latest post, more or less bc it's yet another easy throwaway angle and doesn't consider the motivation behind what I'm actually doing.

I dont believe my posts are throw aways, they are short and direct to the point, saying points that other express later after me in worthless walls while i give you the cold hard truth. I hate writing walls unless there is a gain from them. Walls are bullshit 70% of the time..

[Frogging Mollie]

ahhhhhhhh...commune love heals all wounds. I had a great day shopping with reck and then later watched GoT and cuddled with nuwen and held hands. I am in a fantastic mood and tomorrow we are all getting together and grilling out.

MS, can you link the your recent scum games? Or the game you mentioned hydra-ing with Mollie? You have a lot of topics so I'm having trouble finding the scum ones. TIA.

I don't really understand how if you wen trawling through team mafia you somehow managed to miss the nightless game where metal was scum and we lynched him. I am pretty damn sure that metal is lying since 2 of the list mods were out getting drunk with me, mina is at the orlando meet, zoraster and equinox are rarely on at night (I think they think they will turn into a pumpkin or something). that leaves N, guy and llamafluf and they sure as hell wld not tell metal that he was not allowed to replace out w/o first consulting with ank who was not around. metal lives in china and I am not sure he realizes that a lot of us know each other through meet ups and the commune and he probs sure as fuck didn't realize that I tend to remember pple's schedules and posting times. he is flat out lying and is scum. it is not a bannable offence to lie in a game, it is just poor form and you lynch pple like that.

srsly why is it so hard to lynch obvs scum on this site.

also using meta from 2 years ago (the sabotage game)...right?

@ ika - if metal flips scum (and I am pretty sure that he will) I wld lynch wni d2 and after that I wld look at boo unless she does something amazing cos she shld be helping me with metal and she isn't.

@ zzthing - you are not voting metal that is what is wrong with you. heis pulling the same shit he did in the nightless game and I am not sure how you are missing that.

@ metal - I realized that you might have thought that when I said I had hatred in my heart that I meant for you and I didn't it is for something else entirely. but I will NOT play games with you if all you are gonna do is bait me every time you roll scum.

[Frogging Mollie]

zzthing my walls are glorious. aren't they? AREN'T THEY???

[White Night Imagination]

oh btw, I don't mean to inject any more drama into this game, but I feel you all should be aware of this in advance so that you don't get blindsided by even more drama if/when it happens

I just checked the replacement list in the first post and, depending on how I feel, I will likely just ignore everything Tere posts if she replaces into this game. this is primarily because I absolutely detest her attitude. (hypothetically, if she had signed up before I did, I likely would not have joined the game.)

[White Night Imagination]

If I read this correct then you do tell that they used shit reasons to push metal,

Why did you scum read me when i said they were using shit reasons however? This is something I wana know.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right so plz clarify if I'm not. Yukari's reasons for pushing MS were bad, but I didn't think it was scummy - I got the impression they legitimately believed most of what they were saying, or just wouldn't think to fake some of it as scum (the bit about the setup in particular comes to mind bc if they were scum they'd know it was just a huge load of bullshit and would likely not make them look good or convince anyone, on the other hand it makes more sense if they were just extremely misguided town).

with mollie's reasons, on the other hand, it's shit bc all of her "reasoning" for MS being scum is pointless noise that has nothing to do with *why* MS's play here is scummy. it's all stuff like "lol, MS is throwing his town meta if he's town here" and "lol, why is it so hard to lynch obvscum on this site". and when she *does* provide reasoning, it's all noise that either isn't scummy or doesn't relate to what MS is doing in the game. as I've been saying the whole time, the only reasoning she's given has been the part about MS replacing out - which is so fakeable it's not funny

I think the way you were pushing Yukari is scummy bc you just called their post "full of" misreps and then only cited one, which wasn't really a misrep. and when they pointed this out and asked you what other misreps you saw, you didn't answer it. it felt like you were just using "misrep" as a throwaway excuse here.

I dont believe my posts are throw aways, they are short and direct to the point, saying points that other express later after me in worthless walls while i give you the cold hard truth. I hate writing walls unless there is a gain from them. Walls are bullshit 70% of the time..

most of your "short and direct to the point" posts fail to take into account the motivation behind what people are doing and are instead generally weak reasons for people being scum

the post re: me I found scummy for this reason- scum-me has nothing to gain by saying something along the lines of "if MS flips town flashlynch mollie tomorrow". I'm pretty fucking sure I'd be able to ride the town cred I'd get on MS' townflip to lead a lynch on her the next day as scum here without needing to make a statement like that (and I literally would not care whatsoever about ika defending her here bc he has no reasoning behind it and given the toxicity of this game state no one would listen to him anyway). and I made that statement because I'm pretty fucking sure if mollie is scum here she'd be able to escape the lynch again tomorrow, given she's doing a pretty good job of BS'ing her way out of it so far, and I don't want to allow that to happen

this isn't to say I'm town for it or that you should have read it as town, just that kind of statement is null; but you didn't stop to think through this. it felt more like you just thought "lining up lynches = scummy" would be a good angle to push to look like you were doing something and pushed it without caring that's not actually what I'm doing here

[White Night Imagination]

I will say I at least didn't mind the question in 653, though.

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

[Metal Sonic]

Overall gut says MS not lynch for today due to laim but also partially because I don't see how anyone could be that despicable (fake replace outs like seriously that's so pathetic) but then again people strive to achieve new lows all the time.

Metal Sonic - yeah if you're town replacing out is better because if you're claim is true and town then anyone else has a better chance of handling it.

Is this still relevant? Seeing that you kindly spent your precious time to take a look at my past games, it's too late for me to do that.

I'm making an active choice to stay in the game, by the way. I've always had the option to replace out.

The reason why I had to PM listmods was to clarify rules. Whatever I was going to do afterwards was going to conftown my slot, and could be construed as a trust tell. That was why I retracted the replacement request upon realisation.

I didn't PM them about the game, I just asked a hypothetical question. I could've asked singer too, technically, but since she's actually /in/ the game... Better safe than sorry. Ergo, mollie's assertion that "They'd have to contact Ank first" did not apply.

I've always had the option to replace out. Nobody stopped me from doing

that.

But I took a look at whoever was on the replacement list -- Bellaphant and Tere and dragonspawn -- and I decided that it would be better for me to stay in the game. Not only would it be shitty for me to pass them a slot that's under pressure, but I also don't think that they would be able to stand up to all this as much as me. That's rich, coming from me, thinking they they are lynchbait. But yes.

I mean, just look at Bellaphant. Each and every of her posts want me to take a dayvig gun and shoot her right in the head, not mollie, not yukari, not bookitty. Every one of her posts are blood-red-scummy and the two reasons why I am not all over her at the moment. 1) Mollie is shiner than the shinest shiny shine piece of gold on earth 2) The cute penguin avatar

Additionally, this is a new piece of information:

oh btw, I don't mean to inject any more drama into this game, but I feel you all should be aware of this in advance so that you don't get blindsided by even more drama if/when it happens

I just checked the replacement list in the first post and, depending on how I feel, I will likely just ignore everything Tere posts if she replaces into this game. this is primarily because I absolutely detest her attitude. (hypothetically, if she had signed up before I did, I likely would not have joined the game.)

I like Tere, by the way. But there's stuff like this, and I think that Tere would just fall over from mollie's hounding, even after I've left the slot. Her posts are low-content and low frequency and it's detrimental in a game like this.

So, I chose to retract my replacement request, and I am making a choice not to replace out right now. I won't AtE anymore, I promise. I'm just going to shut out mollie because she is the cause of all of this. I hope that these were not mistakes.

If MS doesn't flip scum then Mollie dies, whether you want call it a "Lynch all AtE BS" or "Lynch all people who bring OOG nonsense into game" If you're good with that then let's have MS to L1, have him full claim his role. You good with that?

Also remember that emotions is the one thing I dislike having to deal with in a game. So that well, for this game, has run dry.

Meeeeeh. This is a sub-optimal strategy. I mean, it won't hurt, it has very positive effects on the gamestate, but we could actually lynch a better shot at scum (Bookitty) and do that roundabout way of clearing me.

If the situation is really dire, then I'm fine with this deal, really. Otherwise, let's look at better moves first. This can be a last resort.

MS, can you link the your recent scum games? Or the game you mentioned hydra-ing with Mollie? You have a lot of topics so I'm having trouble finding the scum ones. TIA.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=61168 This is my best *attempt* at scumplay that mollie has been raging about this whole game. Has 1000 posts, and is an isolated incident. I don't recommend you wasting your time on this.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=59399 This is my best successful scumgame. Perfect win, and a particularly strong town-team. No AtE, no bullshit, completely calm, cool, collected play.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=54597 2014 Game of the Year. Mollie refers to this a lot in this game as well. Once again, no AtE, no bullshit. I'm in the hydra Speedy Saki, but Saki rarely posted.

Pieguy has linked the game with me+mollie as a hydra. We played in another game (we have 2 hydra games in total), but the other one we died Day 1 (sound familiar to whatever is going to happen to me now?) and wasn't much of a memorable experience.





@pieguy I feel that ZZZX is town though. A lazy angle like "lining mislynches = scum" is something that I could see town-him doing, especially when he does not appear to be invested in the game.

[Hydrangea]

Regardless of my own leans of MS, I am just not understanding all this drama around the replace out, fake or otherwise. What is the scum motivation behind that? Because I personally cannot see how a move to replace out, be it genuine or theatrics can help ascertain an alignment indication. What is MS's scum motivation behind this? I'm not seeing it.

- Am I just missing the obvious? Cause all this reading based on meta I have no knowledge of has got me pretty jumbled at this point.

[Metal Sonic]

Hydrangea is town.

[ika]

I like Tere, by the way. But there's stuff like this, and I think that Tere would just fall over from mollie's hounding, even after I've left the slot. Her posts are low-content and low frequency and it's detrimental in a game like this.

just an fyi, mollies is the reason why tere came here in the first place

also if tere were to repalce in my life in this game would be perfect cus tere is the other player i will quickly sort out and sove the entire game

[ika]

@ ika - if metal flips scum (and I am pretty sure that he will) I wld lynch wni d2 and after that I wld look at boo unless she does something amazing cos she shld be helping me with metal and she isn't.

I have doubts about WNI right now but i will save it for day 2 at least.

Boo i can agree on

whats your thoughts on yukari?

[ika]

elusive, vote MS

ZZZX, fuckign vote MS already im not going to be happy if you dont listen for once. if you have to recall on nightless i was almost yelling at you to listen to mollie on listen to her about MS

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

[ika]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

[Metal Sonic]

just an fyi, mollies is the reason why tere came here in the first place

mollie was also the reason why I came here. Plus you, Andrius, Bookitty, and singer.

Anyway, Tere is V/LA right now. And pieguy appears to hate Tere for some reason, so.

Like I said, I'm town, but I'm giving up trying to convince you on this. If you're town, you're gamethrowing

again

, plain and simple. And you should know why I'm more angry about you than mollie right now.

[ika]

just an fyi, mollies is the reason why tere came here in the first place

1) mollie was also the reason why I came here. Plus you, Andrius, Bookitty, and singer.

2)Anyway, Tere is V/LA right now. And pieguy appears to hate Tere for some reason, so.

3) Like I said, I'm town, but I'm giving up trying to convince you on this. If you're town, you're gamethrowing

again

, plain and simple. And you should know why I'm more angry about you than mollie right now.

1) to this site itself? or jsut this game? cus im refering to site itself and i enjoy tere cus she is a very skilled analitcal player who knows how to actualy work with people whn approached right

2) so? thats moot point. i dont give a fuck what pie thinks at this point in time truthfuly

3) gamethrowing is intentionaly going against wincon no? i thikn you are legit scum. therefore its not gamethrowing. also given that this is day fucking 1 i...

whythe fuck am i even responding to you, i have to remember mollies first rule: dont talk to scums.

you could self-hammer and make it faster

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

what does ninjaing/garciaing mean?

MS is not my top scum lean, thus far I am unsatisfied with mollie's push, which is the strongest in favour of an MS lynch. I disagree with some of her connections to alignment indication.

[ika]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

what does ninjaing/garciaing mean?

MS is not my top scum lean, thus far I am unsatisfied with mollie's push, which is the strongest in favour of an MS lynch. I disagree with some of her connections to alignment indication.

garciaing is when someon answers else answers the question that was directed at soemoen else (ie you asked mollie a question i answered it before she could) ninja is sometimes used in its place

im telling you that mollie would give you much more if you did but *shrugs* if you dont want to you loss.

do you have meta or games/links to disprove it cus elusive has linked and given the meta case as well

[Hydrangea]

hydra thing - comes across as newbish so for me is hard to read.

What can I do that would help you get a read on me?

Do you have any questions for me?

to clarify this question is directed at both heads of your hydra rather than just you yourself.

im ninjaing/garciaing this and you could start by voting MS

what does ninjaing/garciaing mean?

MS is not my top scum lean, thus far I am unsatisfied with mollie's push, which is the strongest in favour of an MS lynch. I disagree with some of her connections to alignment indication.

garciaing is when someon answers else answers the question that was directed at soemoen else (ie you asked mollie a question i answered it before she could) ninja is sometimes used in its place

im telling you that mollie would give you much more if you did but *shrugs* if you dont want to you loss.

do you have meta or games/links to disprove it cus elusive has linked and given the meta case as well

Maybe it's just cause its getting late here, but what do you mean sorry? Meta on what?

Do you mean meta to disprove MS is scum? Because no I have no meta.

If we are talking meta then I should probably outline my stance on meta as tenuous. Meta can so easily be manipulated if a person is aware of how they play.