Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[ika]

liek this

[ZZZX]

We are pretty confident in our ability to sort out MS after d1. Zzzx seems like the better lynch today. Bookitty and cpl other ppl need to post more.

Let me ask you this then,.

Have you ever sorted out ms before? because he isnt one to be sorted by normal ways
I am actually starting to get paranoid of how half the game scum reads him but... yea

Also i DID point it out... twice.

I am quite lazy at this point since its 1:00 AM so yea.

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 1.18

Bookitty (4)

- elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination, ZZZX

[L-3]

Metal Sonic (4)

- singersigner, Frogging Mollie, ika, Bellaphant

[L-3]

Yukari (1)

- Hydrangra

White Night Imagination (1)

- Plum

ZZZX (1)

- Yukari
Bellaphant -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -



Not Voting (2): Bookitty, Grib

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-06-04 11:00:00) from now, or June 4th, 11:00 AM CST (GMT-6).

Plum is V/LA until May 25

singersigner is V/LA until May 26th

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

@Mod Could you please prod bookitty?

Bookitty is not eligible for a prod as per rule 3.2.

[Yukari]

We are pretty confident in our ability to sort out MS after d1. Zzzx seems like the better lynch today. Bookitty and cpl other ppl need to post more.

Let me ask you this then,.

Have you ever sorted out ms before? because he isnt one to be sorted by normal ways
I am actually starting to get paranoid of how half the game scum reads him but... yea

Also i DID point it out... twice.

I am quite lazy at this point since its 1:00 AM so yea.

We have a way.

[Yukari]

Hmm. 72 hours for a prod. Think plum is elligible.

Lurking, though not alignment-indicative on it's own, makes things more difficult for town. Can understand that ppl have things to do on the weekend, but comeon! Today is monday already..
9 days left max to figure out d1 lynch.

[singersigner]

Plum was on V/LA as was I and to a lesser extent, Grib? It was a holiday weekend...activity falters a bit, 9 days is plenty of time. >_>

unvote

Anyway, I'll have to read through everything to a fuller extent, but I'm back and should be able to read up before work tomorrow. I don't know what to make of Metal Sonic's claim to have discussed things with ListMods because I wasn't involved in it (obviously), though I can't really think of anything he would be rejected from replacing out for, unless it was...role related? I'm not really sure. What bothered me about it was the claim to replace out before contacting the mod/LMs about what he intended to do with it. It feels more like AtE than anything else.

Also, unless Ankamius strictly forbids it via mod communication or his ruleset, there shouldn't be anything preventing MS from going into more detail about his reasons for wanting to replace out, and then not replacing out, especially if it would help clear this as a reason he's still being rung up right now.

[ika]

hi singer i await your reads

i need someone to talk to who i trust

[Plum]

Yukari, I was freaking V/LA. That means I literally was not available to post and notified the Mod and everyone else.

Spoiler: For goodness sake

Any future games I might mod will have a rule to the effect that only V/LA requests and replacement requests sent to the Mod via PM will be considered and that any posts to the effect of 'V/LA' or 'Mod, please replace me' in the game thread have no relevance. Seriously. This shit.

On the one hand, I come back to a shitshow. On the other hand, both top wagons, I think, might have potential. I'll try to keep this from being a disaster catchup post.

That was to WNI, sorry.

its fine, anyway while you are here whats your read on the following:

andy, hydra, yukari, ZZZX

At the time? Andy felt slightly Townish but whatever. Hydrangea didn't seem good. I don't love naked readlists and as WNI (!), it seemed a broad consensus sort of list, and that was basically it from her. I think I took a brief look at one or two of her old games just so I understood her basic post style? Then decided that for a few reasons I'd rather focus on WNI right then over Hydrangea of two [players who have posted game-relevant stuff but haven't really done anything but sort of are making an attempt to look like they are maybe]. I'm kinda feeling okay with the way that went from this vantage point (that is, feeling okay about Hydrangea right now - she's been passive and whatever so far, feels honest, but nothing major - I feel less okay with WNI) Yukari - not yet readable. ZZZX, similar.

MS

Spoiler: Every time you've mentioned or interacted with me this game

Hello Plum!

Andrius seems very excited about you being in the game. I don't know you at all, but I hope you are as fun as he says.

I'm going to sort you, of course, but mostly I'll fall back to his read on you.

That's my plan!

MS, care to clarify your cryptic statement to WNI?

No.

on phone now as usual so can't respond to stuff


singer town
Andy town
Ika town
Pieguy town
Elusive town
Grib leaning town
Plum leaning town
Frogging leaning town
Hydrangea null
Bookitty leaning scum
Yukari scum

I am here but I don't think you want to talk to me

Ill talk to you as long as its not about fucking molie. cus ill state right now, you are do drop her untill i sort her myself

how about this, talk to me about andy, yukari, plume, booitty, hydra

if you cast mollie is bad light about trying to lynch you after she unvoted i will move my damn vote back

Andy is Mia. I want to see his comments about all this

Yukari is a scummyscumfuck. I looked at their meta already but I can only post full length on com. Just simply their town play is more like able and confused about who is town or scum. Here they seem like faking confusion about lame stuff like the setup. They also have been doing fuck all the whole game except tunnel on me. No reads in their ISO. In their town games they have townreads. No townreads over here. They are scum basically


Bookitty is my 2nd top scumread. Their 2nd post just hit my scumdar quite bad but I don't know how to explain it. And her recent posts are 0 content so not fantastic.


I like hydra for Sheeping me on yukari so my answer is probably biased so don't ask me. Ps: I think they are town

I agree with plum. I thought that they were partners with you. Was planning to powerlynched them after you flipped scum. Fine.

Unless andrius is scum with plum.

I still think you are scum though :/

Just because you unvoted me does not mean I must townread you!

Tinfoil theory is Andy/plum/bookitty

Just in case. This can be seen when I am dead with spoilers and groan about how I wish I followed this later

My last post in the thread before I went V/LA was #313. Prior to that, you had most recently listed me as 'leaning town'. From after I went V/LA, you first ignored me and only me among a list of five players ika asked you to talk to him about. Then you agreed with your former hard-scumread Yukari, going so far as to claim you were planning on power-lynching me 'after [Yukari] flipped scum'. So. What the fuck

changed

, eh? Also, if people are reading correctly that Yukari was trying some sort of play-scummy-on-purpose gambit, well, guess what? ??? is absolutely the right read at the point I was at for that sort of nonsense so yeah, seriously. Yes, I push my reads, I actively deal with trying to refine early reads, but I'm also not scared to say 'this player is currently unreadable to me and I can't think of a good line of play to make them more readable right this minute'. Just because that pissed me off a little.

Also while we're here,

MS

, what's your read on WNI?

WNI

, what prompted you to reread Frogmollie as discussed in post 370? Also, how should ZZZX have read MS/Yukari given recent notion that Yukari 'played it scummy on purpose' and that you find that notion plausible and so forth?

hi guys

ketching up and i am up to here:

OK,

I am replacing out. Hope this is better for everyone.

Enjoy the game, folks.

Turns out I can't do that

I'm here to stay ._________________.

I asked 5 listmods

holy jesus mary and christ SINGER AND I KNOW MOST OF THE LIST MODS PERSONALLY PRETTY SURE THAT META DID NOT PM 5 LIST MODS AND GOT A RESPONSE WITHIN 10 MINUTES W/O THE LIST MODS TALKING TO ANK FIRST METAL IS LYIG HIS FUCKING ASS OFF ANY1 WHO IS TOWNREADING METAL AFTER THIS IS EITHER SCUM WITH METAL OR A FREAKING IDIOT

Lulz.. duh duuhhhdadededuddh adadedu dedob arkhueeu ehuehheuh

Was not tryin 2 make metal want to leave the game. MS had quite the reaction to just a bit of pressure.

Okay seriously now explain what you actually meant by all of this and why you said this. In words. Lots of nice sensible words.

What I've been trying to figure out is that some of MS vs. Yukari feels fake or theater without actual emotion behind it, which I'm trying to parse through.

Correct. Two sides to the coin: On the one hand, MS claims Ori, then acts like he thinks this confirms him and can use this to push what he wants. When no one treats it that way, he is unfazed. Brings it up at seemingly random intervals. On the other hand, Yukari pulls stuff like I just quoted . . . And then the disengage. Hella weird. Edit: The dumbest possible answer to the question?

@Ankamius

please fix post 531. Metal Sonic listed as voting twice. Thank you!

Don't lynch metal d1 pls, just don't. We will explain why @ dawn of d2. If you think MS = scum then look for his scumbuddy for d1 lynch.

This game is a treat and a goddam disaster.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

He claims he was going to confirm his slot via shenanigans? He claims Ori as if this clears him as Town then basically doesn't behave as such? Even though he's clearly competent to read that flavor names don't mean anything this game? Everything else? We're going here. He fullclaims. We get this laid out 100% clear as fucking crystal or get it done. I agree with Singer that if he can speed this up by actually discussing this, just as well.

If I never hear the word honeypot again it'll be too soon. Ffs.

If the Bookitty wagoning is actually the product of scum-Bookitty being bussed, I'll be surprised. Like, I don't trust Bookitty here, whatever, but for Bookitty to get to L-2 in the middle of all this takes something going on, I think. More likely than not

something

is up there.

Grib, ika, Frogmollie, maybe singer, probably Elusive Town. So I share a similar list with Mollie. Okay.

Also WNI can stop setting up lynches now; Elusive, please stop buying into that too okay. I know I'm on MS. But frankly I'm suspicious as hell of WNI either way because his chainsaw of MS just doesn't seem right.

**Fixed**

[ika]

ok plume is a solid town read to me now.

plume scince im here for a bit got anythign for me. You basicly answered everything that i asked and have given me smiles so im content

[Yukari]

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

[Yukari]

Also, if you could maybe iso zzzx and share thoughts, would be appreciated. @plum
And would like to hear thoughts from singersigner on who is likeliest to be scum.

[Hydrangea]

Maybe it's just cause its getting late here, but what do you mean sorry? Meta on what?

Do you mean meta to disprove MS is scum? Because no I have no meta.

If we are talking meta then I should probably outline my stance on meta as tenuous. Meta can so easily be manipulated if a person is aware of how they play.

Yes thats what im talking about.

How about this: do you have him as town? if so what is the town case for him? if you do not there is no reason to not be voting him. Even if he is arguably a "lesser" scum read, scum is still scum. And im telling you right fucking now thta he is scum and that there is no way he would do this shit as town.

If you want to talk abotu meta, while yes people can maipulate it, they still follow a set trait.

No I have him as my second scum read under Yukari. You make a fair point and Mollie's 687 is much more clear for me and I can believe her proposition on scum motivation. As yukari is looking like not a viable option for this day phase I will go with my second option.

VOTE: MS (L-1 I believe)

@ika and mollie if MS flips scum who do you see as a possible partner and what would it make you think about Yukari's slot? (cause it would make me think I was wrong about yukari as scum).
Also if MS flips town what is your read on yukari?

[Hydrangea]

also Ika if MS flips town are you willing or inclined to consider Mollie as possible scum? cause I think that is a very viable option. I ask because you seem to be hard reading Mollie as town.

[Bookitty]

Okay. My mother has departed and I'm in catch-up mode everywhere. I wasn't avoiding this game, for the record. I wasn't around this site at all.

The Metal Sonic replace-out thing is frankly weird. I come from a time in the distant past (long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away) when the Lynch All Liars thing was still valid as site meta. I think it's pretty evident that Metal Sonic lied; why, however, is a question. He was under some pretty harsh pressure, yes. What does he get from lying about replacing out?

Well, I can see a few things. Feigning a replace-out can be a powerful tool to gain sympathy/credibility. It can be a way to demonstrate frustration, something that practically everyone reads as townie. As I understand it (and please, please correct me if I'm wrong) it's frowned upon to replace out as scum under pressure. (I'm not sure why that is, so if you know tell me.) Fake-replacing out, though, gets most of the benefits with minimal risk.

The problem I'm having with MS scum is that 1. He claimed Ori. I don't want to lynch Ori. 2. His AtE actually seems genuine to me, and 3. His interactions are NOT what I would expect from scum. I don't have great meta on MS, but one of the main reasons I was suspicious has sort of evaporated as the game has progressed.

My belief that Elusive and Metal Sonic were linked was pretty tenuous when I posted it. The amount of blowback I got, though, was way out of proportion to the statement, which is odd. I will retract a bit, though, because Elusive clearly came into this game with a chip on her shoulder and a hate on for Mollie. I thought it was a scum tactic to support Metal Sonic, but apparently Elusive really does hate Mollie on some out-of-game level. Which is not cool, by the way. But it explains the out-of-the-gate hate that didn't make sense when I read it and seemed really out of place (and chainsawy).

I'm vaguely terrified that I'm reading ZZZX and I think he's town AND useful. This has NEVER happened before and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

Mollie and Ika are town regardless of what they think of me.

I said why I wasn't here, and I really don't like Yukari selectively ignoring that and other V/LAs. It was Memorial Day weekend. I don't like Yukari's postings all the way through. I'm aware that this isn't a major wagon, but I want my vote registered here so that if I'm lynched people will go back and look at her again. I'm not sure that Metal Sonic wasn't right here.

VOTE: Yukari

I keep going back and forth on White Night Imagination. I don't have great meta on either head (and apparently only one is posting) but if I had to go with gutread, that would make them town.

Again, sorry for the absence. I didn't plan it nor expect it. I'm back now.

[Metal Sonic]

the above looks town. what the fuck am i to do now?

[Plum]

MS, you're at L-1. Further posts from you without fullclaiming will be treated as a scumclaim.

[Metal Sonic]

i am confused as all hell

relooked at bookitty's ISO, all of her posts looks scum except 713 that looks a *little* bit town but if i see it sideways it could be scum

let me consolidate

oh btw i have very strong town reads now, after 30 pages in the game yea

super town

elusive
white night imagination
grib
------------------------

town

zzzx
hydrangea
singer
ika
---------------------
Yukari
plum
frogging mollie
Bookitty
Bellaphant

lynch these

ok i seriously dont know what the hell is going in my head about yukari. maybe i am a sucker for disengagers cause most of the time when i catch scum, if they disengage first then (they are still scum) but i have a bad tendency to "re evaluate" and then let them free. anyway i believe their "honeypotting" excuse.

plum is just bullshitting a read on me. #707. and probably on everyone else. her reads seem very insincere. throughout the game plum's votes consistently involve "vote metal sonic" "unvote metal sonic" "vote metal sonic" "unvote metal sonic" like shes unsure whether to hop on the best opportunistic #1 wagon or not. and now without andy to sort her, her free pass is revoked

as for mollie, elusive says it best:

Stagnant reads is also scummy.

mollie's engagement in this game can literally be used as a textbook example of the above statement. 30 full pages of 0 content except "sonic is obvscum". no reads on any other players at all, nada, zero, only "Sonic is obvscum", "pieguy his defender is obvscum", "andy is leaning scum". why? donno.

somehow her loud yelling can build a wagon. obviously scum motivated wagon, the question is whether she is scum or not?

i hope she is, tbh. because if she says that she is going to blacklist me as town, then it will take effect. then i can join the cool kids.

bookitty's was obvscum except for #707 which makes me doubt but ugh this just feels like shit.


nobody is noticing bellaphant's EXTREME lack of contribution? thats expected, who would look at a cute penguin straddling across inconspicuously over all that loud noise mollie is making?



P-edit: i don't answer to you, not when you're on my wagon and i think you could be scum. only if elusive/WNI gives me the go-ahead

[Plum]

If anyone doesn't believe me that refusing to claim here is a scum tactic, I'm happy to discuss it. The fullclaim is one of the last pieces of leverage MS hypothetically has in the game as scum. Scum don't want to give up that last piece of leverage at L-1 if they think they could possibly survive any longer without giving it up. I've done it as scum. I've seen scum do it and get away with it over my vocal protests. So yeah. He's also effectively refusing to discuss what Singer (whom he's not listing as scum) asked him to re the replace out shenanigans, or even try to discuss why hypothetically he couldn't or shouldn't discuss it.

[Metal Sonic]

what the hell are you going to do? vote me? HA

maybe if someone else asked, but not from you, miss mafia theory.

[Metal Sonic]

Singer hasn't caught up, btw, so stop being full of shit about that

[Bookitty]

@Plum: Isn't it possible he's trying to preserve a power role?

I mean, maybe not, since he already claimed Ori, but if MS is town (that's how I'm leaning, if it's not evident) then he might 1. be trying to avoid claiming to either draw the nightkill or to save a power role he wants to use.

If he claims a power role, he gets me lynched, so what's his hesitancy if he's actually scum?

[Metal Sonic]

so um bookitty what are your thoughts about me voting you right now

[Plum]

@Plum: Isn't it possible he's trying to preserve a power role?

I mean, maybe not, since he already claimed Ori, but if MS is town (that's how I'm leaning, if it's not evident) then he might 1. be trying to avoid claiming to either draw the nightkill or to save a power role he wants to use.

If he claims a power role, he gets me lynched, so what's his hesitancy if he's actually scum?

If he's trying to preserve a power role, it's too late for that. It is straight up anti-Town to withhold a claim at L-1. His hesitancy if he's scum is simple: If he claims VT, he's dead. If he claims a power role, he loses his leverage - no longer will it be in his hands, but in the hands of the rest of us to discuss if his role is powerful/confirmable enough to risk not lynching him in the face of his scumminess. Also, in the immortal words of DGB, "Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity."

[Metal Sonic]

you sound so smart





(im not at l-1)

[Bookitty]

@Metal Sonic: Um, do not like? But I can't say it's opportunistic because it's been there a while. I think I'm more expendable than you, so I don't actually have an issue with it, especially at this point.

@Plum: It doesn't feel like that to me. I think it would be easy-peasy to make a fakeclaim as scum (it's not like he hasn't had time to do it) and I rarely if ever see anyone lynched after making a power role claim at L-1.