Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Yukari]

After reading and/bella iso, neither of them give us much to work with as far as reads. And seemed pretty focused on zzzx but not because of scum read, other than that they have asked a few questions and rode safely on the yukari and MS wagons. And's replace felt believable rather than leaving due to pressure.

1 thing that stood out though is that bella seems to be in at least 3 other ongoing games right now. She also seems to be more active elsewhere, but don't think we can talk about ongoing games.

[ika]

note to respond to stuff when i get hom from work

LYNCH MS PLZ

[Metal Sonic]

Oh, and for all you crazy meta readers out there, Yukari-scum NEVER promises to be town unless specifically asked to. So please, play with us and leave MS for us to sort d2. Look for other scum d1 and we will make more sense d2 if we survive the night. Though hopefully we do get nked just so we can go back to newbie game with regular matrix6 setup.

Tired of asking so won't do it again.

yukari, i have an important question for you.


if scum are strong and manage to lynch me today anyway, will you be able to "sort" someone different d2 instead of me? for example, mollie

[elusive]

This isn't related to the game but with personalities, aka Bookitty and Mollie so in spoilers and irrelevant to the game:

Spoiler:

Bookitty, Mollie started it - she already stated that she aggressively took a pot shot on me for asking RQS questions and in DOA she took several based on thinking I was from a different site. The fact that you are now misreading or ignoring that aspect of her play and how she keeps asking your for help confuses me and makes me wonder about whether the two of you are aligned.

Plum also wasn't favorable about RQS questions but handled it differently. Mollie on the other hand, I mean her reputation as town is "mean," my reputation as town being tunneled is also "mean" but I generally avoid low blows and hers went too far for my tastes without deserving some adequate response. That's the difference with a pattern of taking pot shots.

Looking through some of mollie's games she has a habit of trying to degrade players with statements about how she doesn't know why she plays mafia anymore because apparently players these days are such dumb fucks. I mean look at the ETL game she had me read, she does the same thing there and she did the same thing in DOA. I notice patterns and I don't take insults whether passive aggressive or otherwise from anyone. Players who think they can shit on what they assume to be newbies or different from them, are just a lot more about themselves then anyone else.

I'm not new to mafia - and no longer new to this site. I do have a chip on my shoulder and confidence in my abilities. I always believe I can win fair and square through effort and will. That's my attitude. If you get in my way though then you'll feel my wrath.

I actually don't mind players with attitudes like Mollie's - she tries to bring players to emotional breakdowns through haranguing (as in the game she linked and I read and this one) - IF they can deal with getting the blowback in response. But when I gave Mollie some of her own condescending attitude back she tried to play the sympathy card and asked ika not to invite me to games she /in'ed to. Awww...crocodile tears, much? Either be capable of owning your own shitty attitudes and stop pretending to be a pure little hippie snowflake or I don't care.

Mollie I really don't care about your crazy theories about little munchkins or aliens or Chihuahuas living in peoples brains and doing jazz hands, I have my own more clear theories about your in game demeaning insults.

You reaction to receiving even a light insult back is to resort to personal attacks that go out of game and attack a person's psychology. Are you denying attacking me on a personal level now with all the "inferiors" nonsense or crazyspeak?

I wouldn't want to go into personal territory because that would be rude and OOG now wouldn't it?

Yukari wants to now keep MS alive after 1 vs 1ing him for so long. MS I presume also wants the same thing? Yukari basically soft claimed an investigative so ugh. Yukari is totally playing against their town meta in two games on here and I don't know what to account for the huge change.

The problem I see with WNI is that I don't think they would try so hard to protect a scum buddy? If MS ends up flipping scum then that put WNI in a really bad place? I'm trying to think through that.

Bookitty, explain the several people who found you try to connect me to MS and why their response is as you said out of proportion? As in point out the people who didn't like it and explain the motivation you see behind each one.

[Yukari]

Yukari is totally playing against their town meta in two games on here and I don't know what to account for the huge change.

Other than the promise town-tell the biggest reasons for playstyle is that the most recent game here was nearly a year ago, and the 2 before that were another year back. Plus we also didn't like our play in our last game which is most of why we left for song.
Main reason we came back is because we started playing pathfinder with a local group of mostly mutual friends, who also happen to be interested in playing irl mafia. We plan to order mafia cards soon to start playing irl, and we would like to get in some practice beforehand.
Honestly, think we prefer our mafia irl over forum style. Is nice being able to read faces n body language and such, plus having each person only get a minute per day to speak cuts back on the clutter and long time committment of forum mafia.

[Yukari]

Playstyle change*
left for so long*

[Yukari]

Also, this may or may not explain a lot about our playstyle, depending on things like your current state of mind: Our themesong: http://youtu.be/qbshYiVPWXA

[Yukari]

Just noticed our game record is lacking at least 2 games. We have def played a game as scum and can't find our towntell with a quick ctrl+f iso. Think what happened was we forgot our old username and pass or something. =/

[Yukari]

@Every1, if you were scum, would you be more likely to vote against your partner, or not vote against your partner? And if you did vote your partner, would you be willing to allow a lynch, or would you try to prevent the lynch?

[Metal Sonic]

Depends on how important the partner is. If the partner really sucks, and will look like he will die soon anyway, I will vote against him. If my partner looks like he can handle the stuff with a bit of help, then I won't vote against him.

Will you answer my question yukari? Or secret?

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 1.19

Metal Sonic (5)

- Frogging Mollie, ika, Bellaphant, Plum, Hydrangea

[L-2]

Bookitty (4)

- elusive, White Night Imagination, ZZZX, Metal Sonic

Yukari (1)

- Bookitty

ZZZX (1)

- Yukari
Bellaphant -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -
White Night Imagination -



Not Voting (2): Grib, singersigner

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2015-06-04 11:00:00) from now, or June 4th, 11:00 AM CST (GMT-6).

singersigner is V/LA until May 26th

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[Yukari]

We don't intend to unvote until zzzx finally gets around to at least answering our question. Maybe not even then.

And no, we do not intend to answer you right now MS. That can wait until L-1 or D-2.

[Metal Sonic]

Also, this may or may not explain a lot about our playstyle, depending on things like your current state of mind: Our themesong: http://youtu.be/qbshYiVPWXA

i listen to this. i find it very disturbing

@ yukari thats okay if you must keep it secret. but then i think you have to work harder to not get me lynched today. i am at l-2 which is the same as bookitty now.

and bookitty just posted a bit of good-ish posts so ugh


i believe your town tell.

[Frogging Mollie]

Yukari wants to now keep MS alive after 1 vs 1ing him for so long. MS I presume also wants the same thing? Yukari basically soft claimed an investigative so ugh. Yukari is totally playing against their town meta in two games on here and I don't know what to account for the huge change.

Mollie and I discussed the same thing. Question is, which investigative? Now the seem like they are buddying up to MS after a long head to head against each other. Also, them pushing their own towntell??? And that meta...

[singersigner]

Ok I need to clarify something now that I've had any modicum of decent sleep and can think straight again.

I guess I'm put in an awkward position because as a player I'm very curious as to how this affect MS alignment, but as a ListMod I think I need to treat this as a "report" when it comes to mod communication. As someone in the game that's been "reported" I would be spoilered from any and all backstage communications trying to sort out the proper way to deal with the report. So, for purposes of this game, all I know is what I see in the game, and I cannot and should not have any insider information.

That being said, I 100% agree with BooKitty. There's nothing stopping MS from communicating what he asked the mods, which as far as I can tell, he has (something, something trust tells), and if whichever LM it was that responded told him that even communicating that to us would/could be considered a trust tell which would be against the rules/spirit of the game, then I can see why he feels like he can't go into more detail lest it dodge around the entire point of double-checking his actions.

Now.

This is the shittiest of shitty arguments! Not only is it so very distracting, but I really can't make sense of anything anymore. What makes me angry is that Metal Sonic is either fucking with us, or he legitimately tried to confirm town his slot by REPLACING OUT which is literally the worst thing. I've only ever replaced out of one game before and it's because I was being so harassed by another player (lo and behold a scum player), so I think I take replacing out due to things like apathy or trying to confirm your slot when you wouldn't even be invested in the slot anymore, personally. It feels like gaming the system and something I don't ever want to see from town ever.

That's what's putting me between a rock and a hard place. I can't tell if I'd be disappointed by town or played by scum.

So.

Metal Sonic. I'd like to propose two things: 1. Please try to figure out a way to convey why and what it was you were trying to communicate that could be considered a trust tell after an official replacement request. 2. Never do that again. Never try to replace out unless you fully intend on replacing out. I've made it very clear in the past that I dislike people continuing to post after they've replaced out because it will affect the game and the next slot in a way the replacement can't do anything about. Post all you want before, even if you've already made the decision in your head, but if it's made public, it's really unfair for the game to be continually affected by something you no longer have a stake in.

[singersigner]

#long post

#longerpostincoming
#skippingalotofMSdrama

hi singer i await your reads

i need someone to talk to who i trust

I hope this doesn't mean what I think it means!

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

People are already speculating on what this means, however, I've also seen ZZZX promise that he can sort people out in late game, so... >_>

also Ika if MS flips town are you willing or inclined to consider Mollie as possible scum? cause I think that is a very viable option. I ask because you seem to be hard reading Mollie as town.

This is a very leading question. How will you feel if he flips scum? Why do you care if someone else reads Mollie one way? If FM is scum their alignment won't change, "you'd" just need to prove why. It looks like you're trying to get someone to agree to something that's not been proven, yet.
(I put "you'd" in quote for purposes of illustrating that it's true of anyone who's trying to get a lynch through, not like I'm implying hydrangea holds the burden of proving life >_>)

Bookitty, if you disagree with me on the theory, then whatever. I'll say that I've had multiple experiences with scum refusing to claim at L-1, including on Day 1.

If you think you're more expendable than MS because he claimed Ori and doesn't want to fullclaim now, I don't know what to tell you. Except to reiterate that flavor is irrelevant, so. You should probably ask why he's not complying with Singer's request to more fully discuss what the replace out shenanigans were about and also not trying to explain why hypothetically he couldn't do so.

Uhhh, I went over this already.

@Metal Sonic:

You should probably ask why he's not complying with Singer's request to more fully discuss what the replace out shenanigans were about and also not trying to explain why hypothetically he couldn't do so.

Can you explain that, please?

Also, can you firm up your read on Yukari? One issue I have with you is that you apparently thought I was scum but you asked me to vote with you on Yukari before the weekend. Now you're asking her to vote with you on me. So what is your read on her?

Meh. I am sure Plum and Mollie are town, and I KNOW Mollie has better meta on MS than I do. Plus if MS is scum and I save him at my own expense I'm going to feel very dumb.

Thinking about it.

This is a really good assertion. I'm not sure I'm following MS' reads progression because he was very hardon for Yukariscum, and can't seem to make up his mind. I don't think inconsistency is a scumtell, though. What do you think that says about his motivations (not that he's semi-addressed this??)

Please stop asking about my communications with listmods until singer gives the clear. Thanks.

I've given you as much clear as I can but I need to remove myself from actually giving you the ok on something I know nothing about. This needs to come directly from Ankamius or the LM in question.

I don't care what they said back to you. I'm asking what you were going to try to do and why, which is not something you got from the listmods and which can't reveal information they gave YOU because it's information YOU had before you tried to do it.

This is what I really agreed with in my previous post. I've been racking my brain for examples, and I can't think of any. I think though, that if they told him he couldn't do something be it was trust tell related, then it would probably defeat the purpose of telling us what he asked them, since it would accomplish more or less the same thing.

WHICH IS WHY THAT PREVIOUS POSTS EXISTS IN SUCH DISTRESS.

[ZZZX]

, I've also seen ZZZX promise that he can sort people out in late game, so... >_>

damn that game >>

[ZZZX]

will be busy for today/early tomorrow for offical paper work.

[Yukari]

will be busy for today/early tomorrow for offical paper work.

Please find time to point out at least 1 of the lot of misrep you claim we are guilty of. Getting tired of asking.

[singersigner]

After reading and/bella iso, neither of them give us much to work with as far as reads. And seemed pretty focused on zzzx but not because of scum read, other than that they have asked a few questions and rode safely on the yukari and MS wagons. And's replace felt believable rather than leaving due to pressure.

1 thing that stood out though is that bella seems to be in at least 3 other ongoing games right now.

She also seems to be more active elsewhere, but don't think we can talk about ongoing games.

The first half of the bolded is fine and something you can encourage other people to look at for themselves. Like "it seems like x player has been avoiding our game" implying that you know they've been elsewhere on the site. The second half is something you can just leave out. We shouldn't speculate on activity-level in other games until they're over. Actually, for example, I know there was one newbie game I made it a point to make time for while I was on V/LA just because it was in LyLo, and I let the other newbie game on D2 kind of just run it's course. In any case, yeah...

Yukari wants to now keep MS alive after 1 vs 1ing him for so long. MS I presume also wants the same thing? Yukari basically soft claimed an investigative so ugh. Yukari is totally playing against their town meta in two games on here and I don't know what to account for the huge change.

Mollie and I discussed the same thing. Question is, which investigative? Now the seem like they are buddying up to MS after a long head to head against each other. Also, them pushing their own towntell??? And that meta...

"LAMIST" haha. Someone tried using that on me a few newbie games ago, but I was actually town, so it's not always so accurate. Mollie can teach you what the difference is between someone who tries to use it to clear themselves and avoid scrutiny, and someone who maybe seriously believes they might be the next nightkill.

But that's not why I pointed out your post. I'm just wondering what the point is of speculating soft-claims like this so early on. Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team, and now you asking what kind of investigative seems like pretty heavy rolefishing. It makes me le sads.

Preview Edit:
@ZZZX...it would be nice to see you comment on other things if you had enough time to process and comment on that one sentence in my post stating your name, that was mostly referring to not trusting someone else's ability to "wait til later"... >_>

[Frogging Mollie]

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

People are already speculating on what this means, however, I've also seen ZZZX promise that he can sort people out in late game, so... >_>

Good point. I've noticed though that Yukari has been hard pushing this.....

Spoiler: Yukari

Lol, someone is floundering like a fish on land, seems very worried and frustrated. And in a hurry to get someone else lynched despite having 2week TL for d1. We have never seen such an emotional breakdown to a little pressure to the point where someone thinks swearing like a sailor and screaming in bold is a good idea. Chill a bit bro, it's a just game no need to take things personally.
So yea, with more than twice the number of posts than anyone else, and less substance, he screams scum by trying waaay to hard to appear town. Worried more about how he looks than scumhunting.

My english isnt the best but I can see alot of misrep here, How can asking someone if he can sort people out hunting for good scum hunters? sorting people out = reading them... Also metal as scum has a prob decent idea of this playerlist so he wouldnt need help to know who can scum hunt.

I doubt both metal and yuka are town, its prob tvs or mayybeeee svs, but i doubt the latter.

We calls it like we sees it. In our limited experience, people who focus on looking for the most town and best scumhunters, specially at the exlusion of genuine scumhunting, tend to flip scum. We are looking for scum first, not who is "most" town. It is an entirely different creature to post a list of ppl you have a town read on alongside scumreads, than it is to go around asking who the best scumhunters (nk target due to being more dangerous for scum to leave in game)are and why.

post

i think you might be town, but your push on MS is extremely misguided

just as one point, the "ori role" is literally how theme games work - you have a character (ori) with a mafia role assigned to it (and even then it doesn't have to be a standard mafia role, some theme games have more complex or entirely new roles). it's not a fake claim just bc "there's no ori role on the wiki". and you're still misinterpreting how the setup works - the role pools in the first post only apply to actual mafia roles and not character flavors.

and him claiming he saw your role PM is pretty obviously a joke

among other things

i think *if* MS is scum here, it's likely not for any of the reasons you're pointing out. i can break it down in-depth if you want.

We admitted early on that we don't understand the setup, and we still dont fully get it. Also, our very early game playstyle may seem unusual but we have our reasons for this which we will explain at either L-1 or D-2. Suffice to say for now that we wanted to appear slightly scummy. Nobody really bit on that cept for MS, though counts much less due to omgus. Sry if this fails to make sense right now, but everything has a reason even if unclear.
Also, you may see a joke, but all we see is a very bad lie and bad choice to say such a thing.

Oh, and for all you crazy meta readers out there, Yukari-scum NEVER promises to be town unless specifically asked to. So please, play with us and leave MS for us to sort d2. Look for other scum d1 and we will make more sense d2 if we survive the night. Though hopefully we do get nked just so we can go back to newbie game with regular matrix6 setup.

Tired of asking so won't do it again.

Promise we are town. We still have our eye on you as possible scum but would prefer to sort you out d2. If you are town, work with us for a moment. 3 scum in the game, look into who was on either bandwagon and why? we still see you as scummy, but we overplayed it a bit to get an early wagon going, and without being serious about the joke we can at least see you as possible town again. We have reasons for wanting to play riskier here and change up our style from our old game. Hell our last game started in june 2014, before then it was may and sep 2013. Surely you dont expect us to play the same way we did 1-2 years ago? Specially when we did not like the way we played or how the game turned out last time. Have explained most reasons already, but some info would best be hidden for now.

Don't lynch metal d1 pls, just don't. We will explain why @ dawn of d2. If you think MS = scum then look for his scumbuddy for d1 lynch.

Glad to see signer and plum back. And yea singer, unless we get lynched or nked d1/n1 we can likely easily sort out MS on d2.

We don't intend to unvote until zzzx finally gets around to at least answering our question. Maybe not even then.

And no, we do not intend to answer you right now MS. That can wait until L-1 or D-2.

What I want to know is what is the motivation for it. Why did they want to so badly lynch MS earlier, now they want so badly sort them D2? I don't understand that change in mindset. Why are they pushing it so hard? Are they trying to push an investigative role this hard for survival? I'd try to be less blatant about breadcrumbing this, but maybe that's just me...

Pedit: Not rolefishing. Just wondering. I'm trying to understand their motivation for this, because their playstyle is certainly odd...

[Yukari]

Also, if people are reading correctly that Yukari was trying some sort of play-scummy-on-purpose gambit, well, guess what? ??? is absolutely the right read at the point I was at for that sort of nonsense so yeah, seriously. Yes, I push my reads, I actively deal with trying to refine early reads, but I'm also not scared to say 'this player is currently unreadable to me and I can't think of a good line of play to make them more readable right this minute'. Just because that pissed me off a little.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit

[Metal Sonic]

<3 singer thanks for being here!

I was being harassed by mollie whom I have the growing suspicion is a scum player. Her only argument against me at this point in time is the listmods angle, after pieguy demolished all of her previous baseless arguments that she had been pushing for 25 pages, and not only that but she insulted my towngame, called me a shitty player, and threatened to blacklist me in quick succession.

Please try to figure out a way to convey why and what it was you were trying to communicate that could be considered a trust tell after an official replacement request.

I sent 5 personalized PMs to 4 green names and 1 red name with the phrasing: "If I do X, is it allowed?"

I only received 1 reply which went along the lines of "No, (((generic))) X is not allowed, but you can do (((the very benign))) Y"

I was not interested in Y, and after realising that whatever X I was going to do fell under the scope of the mod's reply, I retracted it later for safety (and I didn't care to Y)


I'm sorry. The thought legitimately went through my head and I knew enough for it to be against the spirit of the game (scum would be disadvantaged!), but ugh.

And I do stop posting after I've posted a replacement for real, like if I really have to leave the game for whatever reason, usually activity-related issues though. But when I get invested in a game, such as this, I would not intentionally replace out, unless it would help my faction because I want them to win. I have a very low replacement rate and you can verify this; I don't replace out unless activity (or force replaced!).

I'm not sure if I can reveal X or Y; after doing so I suspect that I'd be pretty highly townread! So that falls under your issue there. So um. :/

[Metal Sonic]

Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team,

I was the first to point it out, by the way. I'm that

bad

insensitive guy who points out the elephant in the room.

Also, can you firm up your read on Yukari? One issue I have with you is that you apparently thought I was scum but you asked me to vote with you on Yukari before the weekend. Now you're asking her to vote with you on me. So what is your read on her?

Yukari is crumbing something so obviously that if you guys dont see it you all are blind. scum also probably saw it already so i'm breaking the news here.

will not lynch yukari today.

[Yukari]

And no, we do not intend to answer you right now MS. That can wait until L-1 or D-2.

[/spoiler]
What I want to know is what is the motivation for it. Why did they want to so badly lynch MS earlier, now they want so badly sort them D2? I don't understand that change in mindset. Why are they pushing it so hard? Are they trying to push an investigative role this hard for survival? I'd try to be less blatant about breadcrumbing this, but maybe that's just me...[/quote]
Who said we wanted him lynched badly? Perhaps we wanted pressure for reaction fishing? If that was the goal, we think we did pretty well, though it turned into more of a clusterduck than we were ready for, which is why we think it best to fall back on the slayers gambit, look at the wagons, and sort out MS D-2.