Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Metal Sonic]

please don't call it a slayer's gambit, i hate the name

honeypotting is better.

[Yukari]

please don't call it a slayer's gambit, i hate the name

honeypotting is better.

Whatever, that is just what the wiki calls it.
Anyways, we are the type who rarely makes a serious play for a mere single reason. Take from that what you will. Should play us in igo or chess sometime after this game if anyone is interested. You can't truly know someone until you fight them.

[Metal Sonic]

i want to play with you. i like you yukari.

what is igo?

and are you good at chess?

i dont think talking about these stuff is appropriate since rvs is over and thats when i normally do this, but

after the game then.

[Frogging Mollie]

@Yukari: Fair enough. I had to go look up slayer's gambit, for the record. Still learning...

@Singer: I feel like if I can sort Yukari now, I can use it to sort some other players as well based on Yukari's interactions with other players. Because other than yourself, I have the best grasp of Yukari's history.

[Frogging Mollie]

Or I could just let Mollie do everything, but that's no fun for me then, is it?

[Yukari]

Also, this may or may not explain a lot about our playstyle, depending on things like your current state of mind: Our themesong: http://youtu.be/qbshYiVPWXA

i listen to this. i find it very disturbing

@ yukari thats okay if you must keep it secret. but then i think you have to work harder to not get me lynched today. i am at l-2 which is the same as bookitty now.

and bookitty just posted a bit of good-ish posts so ugh


i believe your town tell.

We don't like how you flipped your opinion of us simply for going after someone else, or is there some other reason? Also, we still have a scumread(though convolutedatm) on you. Aso, we never technically unvoted you, simply voted someone else.

[Frogging Mollie]

This isn't related to the game but with personalities, aka Bookitty and Mollie so in spoilers and irrelevant to the game:

Spoiler:

Bookitty, Mollie started it - she already stated that she aggressively took a pot shot on me for asking RQS questions and in DOA she took several based on thinking I was from a different site. The fact that you are now misreading or ignoring that aspect of her play and how she keeps asking your for help confuses me and makes me wonder about whether the two of you are aligned.

Plum also wasn't favorable about RQS questions but handled it differently. Mollie on the other hand, I mean her reputation as town is "mean," my reputation as town being tunneled is also "mean" but I generally avoid low blows and hers went too far for my tastes without deserving some adequate response. That's the difference with a pattern of taking pot shots.

Looking through some of mollie's games she has a habit of trying to degrade players with statements about how she doesn't know why she plays mafia anymore because apparently players these days are such dumb fucks. I mean look at the ETL game she had me read, she does the same thing there and she did the same thing in DOA. I notice patterns and I don't take insults whether passive aggressive or otherwise from anyone. Players who think they can shit on what they assume to be newbies or different from them, are just a lot more about themselves then anyone else.

I'm not new to mafia - and no longer new to this site. I do have a chip on my shoulder and confidence in my abilities. I always believe I can win fair and square through effort and will. That's my attitude. If you get in my way though then you'll feel my wrath.

I actually don't mind players with attitudes like Mollie's - she tries to bring players to emotional breakdowns through haranguing (as in the game she linked and I read and this one) - IF they can deal with getting the blowback in response. But when I gave Mollie some of her own condescending attitude back she tried to play the sympathy card and asked ika not to invite me to games she /in'ed to. Awww...crocodile tears, much? Either be capable of owning your own shitty attitudes and stop pretending to be a pure little hippie snowflake or I don't care.

Mollie I really don't care about your crazy theories about little munchkins or aliens or Chihuahuas living in peoples brains and doing jazz hands, I have my own more clear theories about your in game demeaning insults.

You reaction to receiving even a light insult back is to resort to personal attacks that go out of game and attack a person's psychology. Are you denying attacking me on a personal level now with all the "inferiors" nonsense or crazyspeak?

I wouldn't want to go into personal territory because that would be rude and OOG now wouldn't it?

holy jesus mother of christ

elusive are you unable to recognize or identify the basic components of plato's allegory "the cave"? its philosophy 101. it is ironically apt wrt you and I think it cld be of some value to you after some contemplative introspection.

I didn't insult you by not answering your questions, it is called setting a boundary. I honestly haven't paid much attention to you cos i think your town and it has become apparent the more your post that you aren't quite able to parse what is being said to you at times.

also the intention of my refusal to answer your questions is not to "insult" but to establish a boundary.

aaaaaaaaand this is my last response to you.

[Yukari]

This isn't related to the game but with personalities, aka Bookitty and Mollie so in spoilers and irrelevant to the game:

Spoiler:

Bookitty, Mollie started it - she already stated that she aggressively took a pot shot on me for asking RQS questions and in DOA she took several based on thinking I was from a different site. The fact that you are now misreading or ignoring that aspect of her play and how she keeps asking your for help confuses me and makes me wonder about whether the two of you are aligned.

Plum also wasn't favorable about RQS questions but handled it differently. Mollie on the other hand, I mean her reputation as town is "mean," my reputation as town being tunneled is also "mean" but I generally avoid low blows and hers went too far for my tastes without deserving some adequate response. That's the difference with a pattern of taking pot shots.

Looking through some of mollie's games she has a habit of trying to degrade players with statements about how she doesn't know why she plays mafia anymore because apparently players these days are such dumb fucks. I mean look at the ETL game she had me read, she does the same thing there and she did the same thing in DOA. I notice patterns and I don't take insults whether passive aggressive or otherwise from anyone. Players who think they can shit on what they assume to be newbies or different from them, are just a lot more about themselves then anyone else.

I'm not new to mafia - and no longer new to this site. I do have a chip on my shoulder and confidence in my abilities. I always believe I can win fair and square through effort and will. That's my attitude. If you get in my way though then you'll feel my wrath.

I actually don't mind players with attitudes like Mollie's - she tries to bring players to emotional breakdowns through haranguing (as in the game she linked and I read and this one) - IF they can deal with getting the blowback in response. But when I gave Mollie some of her own condescending attitude back she tried to play the sympathy card and asked ika not to invite me to games she /in'ed to. Awww...crocodile tears, much? Either be capable of owning your own shitty attitudes and stop pretending to be a pure little hippie snowflake or I don't care.

Mollie I really don't care about your crazy theories about little munchkins or aliens or Chihuahuas living in peoples brains and doing jazz hands, I have my own more clear theories about your in game demeaning insults.

You reaction to receiving even a light insult back is to resort to personal attacks that go out of game and attack a person's psychology. Are you denying attacking me on a personal level now with all the "inferiors" nonsense or crazyspeak?

I wouldn't want to go into personal territory because that would be rude and OOG now wouldn't it?

holy jesus mother of christ

elusive are you unable to recognize or identify the basic components of plato's allegory "the cave"? its philosophy 101. it is ironically apt wrt you and I think it cld be of some value to you after some contemplative introspection.

I didn't insult you by not answering your questions, it is called setting a boundary. I honestly haven't paid much attention to you cos i think your town and it has become apparent the more your post that you aren't quite able to parse what is being said to you at times.

also the intention of my refusal to answer your questions is not to "insult" but to establish a boundary.

aaaaaaaaand this is my last response to you.

Last response? Why?

[elusive]

Singer, I know in another game a Mod replaced a player upon request even though they later tried to retract the request. I feel like that should be a site rule overall. If you request replace in thread, then you are to be replaced. No take backs.

It also makes it really hard to isolate MS as a player without the OOG things mucking things up. Then when I read MS, Yukari interactions I feel like I'm trying hard not to conf bias but don't know what to do.

Then MS refuses to replace out either so is this going to turn into an MS\Mollie game if one of them isn't lynched? It's just messy.

Singer what are you meaning by I offered it up out of the blue? What exactly are you referring to?

[singersigner]

I thought you were suggesting the soft-claimed investigative role and interpreting it more bluntly so there wouldn't be any room for questioning and then it would put Yukari in an awkward position of confirming or denying it or ignoring it.

I didn't see where Metal said it first, though, so I'll have to look back at it. I kind of only started reading up from today since that's all I had time for commenting on and figured would have the least questions already answered, but I'll do more on the 8 pages I missed after work tonight.

[Yukari]

With MS off the table, would really like to see ppl focus elsewhere for now, anyone else you find scummy. Would like to see some zzzx or mollie votes, or at least a decent reason for not voting one of them. Atm we prefer an zzzx lynch over a mollie lynch.

[White Night Imagination]

I 100% agree that wni's awkward chainsaw defense makes him most likely scum regardless of what metal flips. I think he is a likely partner for that chainsaw defense and his poopooing away my earlier points on metal

(note he never actually refuted them, just that I never had any in the first place)

when his push on me is such a stretch it looks like advanced bikram yoga. soyeah, I think wni is scum too. pie is usually much better than this.

This is a blatant lie. I refuted basically all of her points in 583, which she did not adequately address (her next post was just her pulling up MS' "replace out" issue over and over again and did not address what I was actually saying).

She is blatantly acting here. She is doing this because she *knows* her "arguments" on MS don't hold any water, yet she's trying to push them anyway. Therefore she has to constantly play up the idea that "I haven't refuted any of her points" - when I clearly have - in the hope that people accept it as truth without cross-referencing it. She's not backing off and admitting she doesn't have any ground to stand on because she doesn't care about sorting MS here; she wants to push MS/me as scum and is making the evidence fit the conclusion and she'll look like obvscum if she backs down at this point.

This is highly disingenuous and likely scum.

the 1 thing in his favour is yukari's 180 on him which is downright weird. cos yukari never really explained it. and I did like the putting you in his town pile cos was my initial reaction to your posts you are throwing off newb tells like mad and it seems to me that if your were scum your team wld be offering more guidance.

anyway I am shelving it for the mo.

This response is very interesting.

i'm pretty ok with rolling over and lynching MS on one condition: when he flips town, we flashlynch the fuck out of mollie tomorrow with no second thoughts

*if* he flips scum, i'm open to suggestions on what i should have to do. although keep in mind i'm not the only one in this slot so don't suggest anything too unreasonable!

In general any sort of AtE disgusts me and is like turn off central. So I almost want to spite both and lynch someone else.

/support

except the turnoff for me is "people blindly trusting other people and their reads without any actual reasoning involved". you have no idea how much what mollie/ika/MS are doing make me want to punch them in the face regardless of what their alignment here actually is

mollie is pushing MS as scum. She is then faced with actual repercussions on a MS town flip. Rather than actually having conviction to lynch MS here, what does she do? She awkwardly attempts to back off in response to said repercussions.

And what did she do next?

I 100% agree that wni's awkward chainsaw defense makes him most likely scum regardless of what metal flips. I think he is a likely partner for that chainsaw defense and his poopooing away my earlier points on metal (note he never actually refuted them, just that I never had any in the first place) when his push on me is such a stretch it looks like advanced bikram yoga. soyeah, I think wni is scum too. pie is usually much better than this.

Once she sees that the possibility of me being scum even *if* MS flips town here is gaining support, she stops caring, comes out full force again, and jumps right along with it so that she has a way out of it after MS flips town - namely, pushing me as scum instead. Note, she doesn't actually stop to consider at any point *why* me-scum would do this if MS is town. There are potential explanations, but nothing she's posted indicates she's considering them, it's just "lol chainsaw" without explaining why it's scummy or refuting my arguments. NOTICE ANY SIMILARITY IN WHAT SHE'S DOING TO MS?

When MS flips town, molliefrog needs to burn a fucking fiery death. (And I really don't give a shit if you think I'm "lining up lynches" here, when I've explained why I'm doing this already - if you think this is the case, actually refute my points.)

[White Night Imagination]

I don't understand how people can't see this shit.

[Yukari]

I don't understand how people can't see this shit.

We can see it, but would prefer to sort out molly after sorting ms. If it comes down to it, we wouldn't be opposed to a molly d1 lynch, though it seems some molly worshippers are pretty adamant against the idea.

[elusive]

I thought you were suggesting the soft-claimed investigative role and interpreting it more bluntly so there wouldn't be any room for questioning and then it would put Yukari in an awkward position of confirming or denying it or ignoring it.

I didn't see where Metal said it first, though, so I'll have to look back at it. I kind of only started reading up from today since that's all I had time for commenting on and figured would have the least questions already answered, but I'll do more on the 8 pages I missed after work tonight.

Yukari's soft claim is pretty blatant so look for it.

[Frogging Mollie]

"LAMIST" haha. Someone tried using that on me a few newbie games ago, but I was actually town, so it's not always so accurate. Mollie can teach you what the difference is between someone who tries to use it to clear themselves and avoid scrutiny, and someone who maybe seriously believes they might be the next nightkill.

But that's not why I pointed out your post.

I'm just wondering what the point is of speculating soft-claims like this so early on.

Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team, and now you asking what kind of investigative seems like pretty heavy rolefishing. It makes me le sads.

Preview Edit:
@ZZZX...it would be nice to see you comment on other things if you had enough time to process and comment on that one sentence in my post stating your name, that was mostly referring to not trusting someone else's ability to "wait til later"... >_>

I special hunt as either alignment and sadly I am more accurate as town moreso than scum which is pretty ironic cos it wld obvsly be much more beneficial as scum. how I handle them is wildly different even if it appears the same on the surface; they are the same as in i tend to ignore them and leave the player alone (which as scum they seem to inevitably wind up investigating me if left alive) but as town I try to steer suspicion off of them. I started doing this when I somehow managed to out 4 specials on d1 in a 24 hour offsite game AS TOWN. like by the third 1 all I said was FOS THIS and got a tracker claim.

I am eh about yukari cos for a moment I was entertaining the fantasy that yukari and metal were scum together and in the case of scum!metal lynch it wld make yukari look like gold and unlynchable but occam's just wants to shut these paranoid delusions down. I even said in our gchat to froggy "mebbe yukari is the mafia role cop!" but occam's has a louder voice right now.

oh hai I also just threw up a ton of self meta to demonstrate to froggy THAT IT CAN BE DONE AS TOWN COS HE KNOWS WE ARE TOWN. it isn't a scumtell.

but since we are on the topic of rolefishing and every1 and every1 and their grandmothers are doing it I feel like metal looks skeevier than elusive, I think elusive is just used to discussing them openly cos that is what her homesite is does. ika does it as well altho not so much anymore and it drives me nuts.

[White Night Imagination]

WNI, what prompted you to reread Frogmollie as discussed in post 370? Also, how should ZZZX have read MS/Yukari given recent notion that Yukari 'played it scummy on purpose' and that you find that notion plausible and so forth?

no particular reason; I was unsure about the entire MS shitstorm that was going on and wanted to solidify my reads there. mollie in particular jumped out bc I had vague gut-town vibes at that point, but no substantial read.

it's not about how ZZZX "should" have read MS/Yukari as opposed to what his actual argument was. if someone makes a push on player Y with bad logic, then this is more likely coming from scum regardless of player Y's actions or how likely player Y is to be scum. that said, I didn't really mind his explanation.

Actually elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination, and ZZZX all get +3 suspicion points just for being on that wagon. Despite our slight scum read of boo, our reason wasn't to lynch but maybe pressure into talking upon their return. Every1 else on wagon gets suspicion due to the lynch seeming way too easy.

if you agree that it's better to sort out MS tomorrow, Bookitty is the best shot at ensuring MS doesn't get lynched today

this is the primary reason I'm voting there, although it helps that Boo is a slight scum read for me - although I would vote on pretty much any counterwagon to MS at this point

[White Night Imagination]

the problem with this game is that there's a bunch of people who are blindly trusting mollie for no discernible reason despite all logic clearly pointing to her being scum. and they don't seem to give a shit about reevaluating in spite of evidence that would clearly indicate as such

ika should shut the fuck up tomorrow and at the very least quit defending her. I'd like Boo/Plum to at least explain *why* they have a town read on her and definitely for Plum to quit fucking discrediting everything I'm writing as "lining up lynches" - because that's honestly a load of shit regardless of what her alignment here actually is

[Frogging Mollie]

no scumbag

you fell for my honeypot


my honeypot is too effectively apparently >__________>

This feels so reactionary by Metal. Yukari ropes metal in then says they were honeypotting, then Metal, realizing he got caught goes, NO YOU FELL FOR MY HONEYPOTTING!

We mostly agree with this read on mollie, can def see her as scum, which is a scary thought since she oozes town vibes to us. We want to believe mollie is town.

I mostly agree with Yukari's read on the above. I too am afraid that mollie is the one that fell for the honeypot, not you Yukari. Which is hell of problematic, because I was adamant that you were the one.

I remembered that I have a weakness of disengaging on scum when they townread me after my interrogation. So do not think that you are in the clear yet.

Then they try to push it off as Mollie fell for it instead, after Yukari agrees with them. But Metal doesn't want to appear let Yukari off the hook that easy, because it looks disingenuous if they do let them off easy.

Elusive offered up this option out of the blue which is scum motivated because it gets information to the rest of your team,

I was the first to point it out, by the way. I'm that

bad

insensitive guy who points out the elephant in the room.

Also, can you firm up your read on Yukari? One issue I have with you is that you apparently thought I was scum but you asked me to vote with you on Yukari before the weekend. Now you're asking her to vote with you on me. So what is your read on her?

Yukari is crumbing something so obviously that if you guys dont see it you all are blind. scum also probably saw it already so i'm breaking the news here.

will not lynch yukari today.

1. Metal has now let Yukari off the hook (for now)
2. Metal is intentionally pointing out he is the first ones to point out the "elephant in the room" to try to get town cred for it. Screams..."Hey, look at me! I'm doing something scummy and I'm going to point it out so I can't possibly be scum!" ... the quoted above is Metal quoting himself, trying to push his own town-tell even further by repeating it (and crossing out bad for further emphasis).

I was already confident in scum!Metal because my other hydra head is pretty good at this. But now maybe you guys can see it's more than just a Mollie on Metal thing? Metal is scum and should be lynched.

[White Night Imagination]

TOWN (S->W): ika, elusive, MS, singer, Yukari <gap> Grib, hydrangea?

{bella, Plum, ZZZX, Boo, mollie}

if I had a dayvig I'd make the above group of players ^ all die a fiery death. outside of mollie I don't have strong thoughts on who, specifically, is scum (Boo would still be my second scum read, outside of that, meh), but since whoever is town among them has a secret scum win con, they die with the rest of them

bella doing fuck all recently worries me. I need to check if this is site-wide or specific to this game.

[White Night Imagination]

also, I would like to know if fro9 has literally anything to say that isn't related to anything Yukari/MS did

while there are far stronger reasons for them being scum, one thing that I'm taking as a weak scum tell here is that fro9's focus has been entirely on Yukari and MS did with no reads elsewhere - it feels like he just wants to pop in time to time to comment on the main target rather than proactively providing content

[White Night Imagination]

bella doing fuck all recently worries me. I need to check if this is site-wide or specific to this game.

yeah...... definitely not site-wide

hm.

[Bookitty]

With MS off the table, would really like to see ppl focus elsewhere for now, anyone else you find scummy. Would like to see some zzzx or mollie votes, or at least a decent reason for not voting one of them. Atm we prefer an zzzx lynch over a mollie lynch.

This bothers me quite a bit because why is MS off the table now? He didn't claim. Why is Yukari trying to dismiss a wagon that is still quite significant (I haven't been tracking the wagon, to be fair, but I don't think there's been a lot of movement off it) and that hasn't been disproven by a long shot?

Also, I'm not voting Mollie. Why? Because this is her town meta. I don't like this constant push on her -- even if she's wrong about MS, which she may be, that doesn't make her scum. Nothing about how she's pushed this has been scummy AT ALL. So stop trying to push her as scum for ~reasons~ that never materialise.

[White Night Imagination]

k

we're lynching Boo today

[Ankamius]

bump