I have PMed the mod to ask for a copy of any questions Dan might have asked the mod and also what answers he received. I don’t know if it will be given or not, but it’s worth asking. I am not Action Dan so I can only tell you what I think he might have been referring to, not what he actually was.
↑ Drixx wrote:I did some ISO of my own on Action Dan, because I recalled some things that bothered me earlier:
Post
634 - mod confirmed multiple scum teams [spefically 2] ... isn't actually true.
In the signups for the game, the mods said they made 2 separate 13 player games and mashed them together,
keeping the scum teams separate
. This is mod confirmation of at least 2 scum teams. There was no reason to be speculating on any more than that at the time. I think that’s all he meant. I have no idea why he felt that his role PM confirmed yours at that juncture — he could have counterclaimed you instead but he didn’t. I do now feel that he was right, I think he was acting on not enough evidence at the time.
Post
1141 - Townies reading AD as scummy. AD tries to make a joke/insult to deflect it. Townie?
Yeah, that was lame.
pedit: Brantz claimed 3-shot pseudocider. he could remove himself from the game 3 times. he has done so. it makes more sense as an SK role than a mafia role I think. I have been paying attention to him in my analysis but there aren’t that many posts from him in the first couple days because he used his ability which meant he couldn’t post.
VOTE: Bulbasaur Commonwealth
I will move to another wagon if neccessary to prevent a no lynch but this is where I want my vote right now.
I think the games were designed for this. they were designed separately and theoretically balanced separately but they haven’t been playtested either separately or apart. but if you do a search for nuke from orbit and get a result that isn’t this game then i too want to know about it!
Post #
1326/1327 doublepost - AD claims to have PMd the mods inquiring about his role PM, but what question could be asked about a role PM that says he is bulletproof against "mafia"? I mean, we had the Tropical Volcano Lair Mafia, and the Berlin Underground Mafia, and a den of Werewolves, and a Serial Killer.
I haven’t been forwarded this yet if the mod is going to forward it to me, but this is what I think: my rolepm says that i am immune to kills made by mafia. Action Dan probably originally thought that meant he was immune to groupscum (usually called mafia) and vulnerable to SK. when he found out you were a werewolf, he thought he was immune to mafia1 (tropical volcano) and you were immune to mafia 2 (lycan mafia). but then he probably asked the mod “wait am i immune to lycan mafia too?” and the mod probably said something that let slip the idea of two mafia teams that aren’t werewolf. i don’t know because i haven’t seen it. i’m just guessing based on what he wrote in public. also, somewhere around this time, the first post was edited to include werewolves under the normal factions that were present in the game, so he probably took that as confirmation of osmething.
Post #
1675 - ActionDan claims to know he is immune to "2" of {mafia1, mafia2, sk1, sk2} (those were choices he asked me to say how many I would be immune to). At this point He had no legitimate way to know that the setup wasn't a Mafia, Werewolf, SK setup.
If the mod forwards me his communication I will be able to answer this. Otherwise see my guesses above.
Post #
1677 - AD is calling BBmolla's claim into question. He made a solid point in questioning why "Volcano Miller" would be necessary unless there was someone who could investigate and get something besides guilty either way. Was there ever such a role? If we have no role that could have ever derived the specific mafia faction BBmolla was miller for, then that's a huge blow against BB's claim.
ok, i think i understand this too but it was AD being stupid. So he is immune to all mafia kills. it turns out via some discussion with the mod that there is more than one mafia group that is separate from werewolf. There’s you, BP to werewolf, 1 faction, and there’s BBmolla, miller to 1 faction (volcano), so why is Action Dan immune to (what turns out to be) both volcano and berlin? he doesn’t understand it and he’s suspicious. I think the obvious answer to this problem comes from Ozgin’s cop guilty on Pirate Ika. He claims that Pirate Ika is a member of the Berlin Undercity Mafia. That tells us that when a cop gets results on a mafia member, they are told the faction. They’re not just told mafia/not mafia, but Berlin Undercity Mafia/not mafia, or Werewolf/not werewolf, or Tropical Volcano Mafia/not mafia. So of course BBmolla has to be miller to 1 faction.
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1678
- Seems to imply that AD's role PM has a very specific phrasing ... but Plotinius has maintained it's a simple statement of immune against 'mafia'. Contradiction?
I am immune to kills made by mafia. I presume you are immune to kills made by werewolves. If the situation were reversed and there was a Lycan Underworld Werewolves and a Twilight Sparkly Werewolves and it wasn’t yet known that there was also a Generic Boring Mafia, and we both had the same role pms that we have now and you were suspecting multiple werewolf groups due to flavour hints / stuff the mod said in the first post / signup thread / a conversation with the mod, would you be suspicious if I was pretty sure i was only immune to one group but you were immune to all werewolves? I really think this was an understandable misunderstanding about setupspec that was based on not enough setupspec being available at the time.
Post #
1713 - AD again attacks me by stating that he's immune to "both mafia teams" when there is still no way to know that the setup actually has two mafia teams instead of mafa/werewolf/sk. The only possible way that AD could know there were two mafia teams is if his PM listed them (which he and Plotinius denied), if the mods told him (which would be against the most basic first things you learn not to do as a mod, so I refuse to believe), or if he were a member of one scum faction and had, I dunno ... seen BBmolla claim to be miller to another mafia faction.
Post #
1716 - Claims to have asked the mods, and that the mods actually told him there was another "mafia" faction besides the Volcano. At this time, the only reason to even posit a "Volcano" mafia was the miller claim. AD could have easily known that he was Berlin mafia and therefore just made up the whole "I asked the mods and..." crap repeatedly.
Moderators, as a basic rule, do not answer questions if the question could impact the outcome of the game. Cuttlefish has gone so far as to decline removing profanity from a post of mine, even though it couldn't possibly have a direct impact on the game. It is inconceiveable that a mod so careful to avoid impacting the game at all would give the information AD claimed was given.”
Our role PM does not name the teams, just says mafia. I don’t know what the mods might have told him but maybe cuttlefish will get back to me soon. I do think there was enough information publically available in the signup thread and the opening mod post for Dan to have figured out some of the things he figured out (that there were more than one groupscum team, which he assumed was two mafia teams, and then later assumed one mafia and one werewolf and then probably asked the mod if he was sure). I don’t know what refusing to edit out profanity has to do with refusing to answer questions about the game; cuttlefish responded to my public question about fakeclaims when I asked and also responded to the question about if Oranje would have shown up as “lynched and nuked”if that were the case.
I really think Action Dan worked out most of it himself. Maybe he asked the mod “am i just immune to volcano mafia” and he answered no and Action Dan leapt to conclusions from there. I dunno.
Post #
1829 - AD claims to have been told explicitly that he was immune to clearly defined factions. Didn't he say in other posts that it just said "mafia"? Contradiction to try and make a case against me ... shady. Also throws in another early doubtcast against BBmolla. And for clarity, I was informed which faction I was immune to, lol, and always said so. I even breadcrumbed it before I explicitly stated that it was werewolves.
He was confused. The clearly defined faction he was immune to was “mafia” which turned out to be two factions. He clearly thought werewolf was SK here. so did a lot of people. he made bad assumptions based on bad setup spec.
Post #
2183 - A big piece for a case against the slot. The ability is "Kevlar" which cannot in any way be mangled into protecting one from nuked from orbit, can it? Then again, the other mafia kill flavor was Incinerate, and Kevlar doesn't help against that either. The SK was "eviscerate" too ... so we have two games with 4 killing "factions", and none use guns ... but we have a BP whose role flavor indicates it's "Kevlar" that saves him?
we thought at the time that eviscerate was SK but it turned out devour was SK and eviscerate was almost certainly werewolf and nuked and incinerate were the two mafia factions probably. you’re reading too much into flavour which is what action dan was doing too. is it that weird for a bulletproof ability to be called kevlar?
My Role Flavor is that I an am Argyrophilic, which simply means I have an affinity for silver, and silver is the classic Achilles Heel for werewolves.
So why does my role name and flavor actually match a killing faction, whose presence nobody had any clue to before I claimed, while AD/Plot's is generic and doesn't at all match?
I don’t know. it’s almost like our roles were made up by two completely different mods with different opinions on flavour. why is yours a fancy name and mine a generic boring name? it’s almost like we are matching roles that come from different games. my original game was probably the volcano/berlin one and your original game was probably the werewolf/sk one.
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2427 - We were all so naieve back then. Well, I was. AD might have known.
no he was working from too little information. just like the rest of you.
Ps: did you see how I edited your post to provide little linkies to the posts you were talking about so that other people could follow along with what we are saying and examine the truth value of our respective statements for themselves?
Post #2441 - Again claims the mods gave him information that could directly impact the outcome of the game.
Post #2550 - Takes credit for the update to the info dump that makes it clear there could be multiple factions including {Mafia factions, Werewolf factions, Serial Killer(s)} or whatever the precise wording is.
Post #5055 - AD's final post, wherein he claims the mods gave him enough information that he could know that 2 mafia factions came from one game and another game would have featured werewolves as the bad guys.
There's certainly a lot there to put Plot in the paranoia slot, imo.[/quote]
