Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1325 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:59 am

↑ Yukari wrote:
↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:Yukari, so who did you sort on D2 as you said you would? Oh wait...this is exactly why you don't claim a PR on D1 with no pressure. Either you're a not so nice word (possible) or you're lying. What was the point in claiming vig with absolutely ZERO D1 pressure on you just so you could get roleblocked?

Answer: BECAUSE YOUR NOT VIG. You weren't roleblocked. You are scum.

Or you really are the VI.

We're still officially V/LA. I know Mollie is busy and I'm on work travel through Thursday, but I should be able to check in from time to time in the evenings (except tomorrow evening).

If ppl had just done what we wanted youd be d1 lynched, flipped scum, ms would still be here cuz we didn't think u were scum together, and so we would have avoided misslynch and had another shot to vig scum. Your op skillz you were bragging on must be havin some serious malfunction if you were actually town mollie because we are the vig and ms was town neighbor. You are either wrong or blantantly telling lies.

Quit dodging our question pls.

@Mollie, true or false? If we vig someone, and they die, their alignment is revealed.

if we wld have been lynched you still wld lynched town. take a step back yukari. I am also not dodging your question I am just wondering where the heck it is coming from since the game wasn't advertised as bastard so your question is a weird wifom "OMG IS THERE A JANITOR IN THIS GAME" POV which is just...weird.

I am not able to track your thought processes at all.

okay so now you can answer my question and hopefully I will some sort of response which will give us clarity!

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1326 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:05 am

@ ika - what do you think of yukari's claim and how he has gone about it and the weird ass angles he keeps taking with it? the thing that makes me lean on newbtown is cos I am not sure I have seen scum throw a full out hissy fit cos their chosen lynch target wasn't getting lynched and be this dramatic about it. what is throwing me off is the self-reference to the plural form of themselves which points to a personality poster and why wld they throw that as scum. they are making zero sense to me for either alignment tbh.

Bellaphant · Post Post #1327 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:14 am

Ugh, so we either have lurking lurkers or aTe batshit crazy? Ace.

The thing is, at some level, yukari has lied, and that makes me uncomfortable. They've basically admitted to not playing to their win-con, whatever that is - I get their frustration, I really do, and they've had some good advice here (also, try Mayfair Club, games with 9 or less players might end sooner), but town in general can't take anything they say at face value because of this.

Mod, are we allowed to know if scum have daychat?

So, Mollie is town: the last few posts seem a lot calmer and clearer, and I honestly think she's trying to make progress now. We also share some reads, which is reassuring.

Grib is town. He could do with expanding some of his thoughts, though

He's got outstanding questions from me. Dragon also needs to give us some more information.

I was scum-reading Boo, but I liked her interaction with me recently.

Still concerned about plum, hydra and zzzx. Elu's slot is giving me a lot of mixed feelings, going to try and judge this on the replacement.

p-edit, frogging mollie, think the 'they' with Yukari is 'coz they are a tulpa. (It was new to me too)

ika · Post Post #1328 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:16 am

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:ika - I am having paranoid thoughts about ika cos he simply isn't here when he shld be, especially since tere has replaced in. froggy has him as strong town and I was but I am not feeling the presence of him in this game or him trying to help me build some type of town cohesion in case we get lynched. like d2 is when I feel like we need to coalesce a bit and I am wondering where the hell is he. I liked his freakout moment at the opening of the day, I had planned on reaching out to pie hardcore to see if there was any chemistry there and if we cld somehow get past the blocks we seem to have with communicating. the other thing about ika that froggy pointed out is that he wld be moving himself front center by nking the other neighbour which wld not be a good optimal move unless wni was showing signs of suspicion in the hood which we have no access to. I am going to ride his ass until he gets back into the game tho but I am not exactly the most patient of pple but I will try to be patient with ika. I feel like we shld be working together more strongly and we aren't. I feel like he is leaving me hanging.

mollie i will level with you. only due to the fact you need to now understand MPOV and my POV on where i stand.

Day 1 from what i can recall i asked like 5 times for you and when i finally went rage-cap yelling to get your attention. Also you need to realize that i have a lot of pent up rage and anger towards this game right now and a lot of shit i really would like to fucking yell about. but i will give that post game.

im almost alwasy around and you know that. you dont have to be passive with me, you can ride my ass all you like it wont change how i feel about my mood or the gamestate in general.

if you really need to know, i have a paranoia about you as well and right now the only person i feel confident enough to confide to atm is tere. if you recall last game (the micro) where you were basicly afk and i got shot cus i suspected you i get flashbacks to thta.

right now i just need some time and space to sort my own thoughts on everyone and everything as well. if you have questions or thoughts to give to me i can answer and bounce but im in that odd mode where im going to hit the borderline of yelling at you and everyone out of jsut anger and spite and working.

so ride my ass if you like but do be aware what you will be dealing with.

pedit: 99% sure scums dont have enabled daychat due to us not having daychat

ika · Post Post #1329 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:17 am

really mollie, i just need to sit down tonight when i get off work and look though this on my own so i can organize my own thoughts.

im kinda on agreemtn with tere that the town turned to shit and scums are doing jack

Yukari · Post Post #1330 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:19 am

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:
↑ Yukari wrote:@Mollie Could you please answer the true or false question?

I am assuming you mean this 1?

↑ Yukari wrote:@Mollie, true or false? If we vig someone, and they die, their alignment is revealed.

yes

Assuming by yes you mean true.

"you pull at the heart strings but froggy is right, you said that cld sort metal d2 and that just does not support a vig claim."
If we can vigkill someone which results in revealing their alignment, we would consider that person "sorted" because their alignment is known to everyone.. What about this do you fail to grasp? Or maybe you have a differing definition of the word sorted? Though pushing on such a weak semantics argument doesn't look like genuine case building but reaching. Seems like vig would be better at sorting ppl out than a cop in that every1 can see the flip vs having to take cops word. Then again cop wont accidentally kill town either.

Anyways, if you d1 lynch flipped scum, woulda likely vigged boo or zzzx, if somehow u flipped town woulda vigged ms because we didnt think you were partners.

One final serious question, assuming we are telling the truth and we are the vig, IF you are town, why would scum RB us knowing that we are aiming for town? Please don't ignore this question just cuz we replacing..

Annnd, were out guys. Good luck to town. We are the vig.

@Mod: Sry but requesting replacement pls.

ika · Post Post #1331 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:21 am

molie: why was pie killed over me?

Yukari · Post Post #1332 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:21 am

Also, bella we always ALWAYS play to our win condition even if it doesn't seem like it.

ika · Post Post #1333 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:23 am

↑ Yukari wrote:Also, bella we always ALWAYS play to our win condition even if it doesn't seem like it.

voting self as town vig is not playing to wincon

voting self 99% of the time is argubly goign against wincon

ika · Post Post #1334 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:24 am

mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

Yukari · Post Post #1335 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:29 am

↑ ika wrote:
↑ Yukari wrote:Also, bella we always ALWAYS play to our win condition even if it doesn't seem like it.

voting self as town vig is not playing to wincon

voting self 99% of the time is argubly goign against wincon

We get that, but ppl seem divided over whether we are town/scum. Us flipping town will give info. And if there is RB is in game with a hardon for us then vig role would be fairly useless.
And technically nobody even rly voting us right now anyways. J/s etc
It's def not optimal play, but has both pros n cons.

ika · Post Post #1336 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:33 am

↑ Yukari wrote:
↑ ika wrote:
↑ Yukari wrote:Also, bella we always ALWAYS play to our win condition even if it doesn't seem like it.

voting self as town vig is not playing to wincon

voting self 99% of the time is argubly goign against wincon

We get that, but ppl seem divided over whether we are town/scum. Us flipping town will give info. And if there is RB is in game with a hardon for us then vig role would be fairly useless.
And technically nobody even rly voting us right now anyways. J/s etc
It's def not optimal play, but has both pros n cons.

are you retracting your replacement or not?

my general rule is once you request it you stop poting.

its not an argument of whats optimal or not. you voting self (if you are town) is 100% against wincon barring role spcific reasons (vengful)

dont respond untill either:
A)take away the replace out
B) post game

ive been playing for years on sites and this isnt a matter of opnion its a matter of facts

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1337 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:34 am

↑ ika wrote:mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

I am not scum and if you bothered to look at my posts I wld like to think you wld figure this out.

I am asking you about what you think about yukari's softclaim that led up to a hardclaim. what do you think of that?

grib is a higher town read than tere for me. 1 of the things that is freaking me out is how it seems you are avoiding zzthing which makes wonder cos I know you guys had a fantastic rapport in nightless and I am not seeing that this game or any attempt for you to work him out when I feel like town!you wld/shld be doing at this time.

so i am asking about zzthing too!

Grib · Post Post #1338 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:47 am

Hm. Hydrangea, Plum, and ZZZX reads.

Bella, I tend to bounce between keeping notes for why someone is town, and quickslotting them if I feel like their posts are genuine or something.

I forget exactly why I had Plum and Hydrangea as town. They probably posted something that I thought was really genuine, so I slotted them as town and moved on. ZZZX ended up in my non-town pile via PoE.

I can look through Hydrangea's and Plum's posts if you really want me to, but until some of my gray-area reads flip, I'm probably gonna hold off on that.

Plum · Post Post #1339 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:54 am

I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you

really

?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

It's the opposite of what you said, Yukari - Hydrangea defending Frogmollie increases odds of Hydrangea-scum if Frogmollie is Town, not if they're scum.

Mollie, why did you launch into speculah re who you'd have NK'd if you were scum? It's pointless WIFOM - like serious real WIFOM okay I'm using the buzzword for something meaningful here - so why?

↑ Frogging Mollie wrote:personally I am going to look at who is on staying on the edges cos I am pretty sure there will be scum there. scum love 1v1s but scum are often uncertain on how to handle them during the aftermath so tend to hold back a bit to see where town herd mentality will go.

Correct.

And just because a couple of people have mentioned this, Andrius mentioned to me before the game even filled, in response to me saying something about my prior hiatus, that he didn't know how long he himself would be on the site, so I wasn't surprised when he replaced out. Could it have been influenced by his alignment? Possibly, probably had more to do with stuff unrelated to that, so &c.

One thing that strikes me looking back is the Day 1 Bookitty wagon. As it forms, even at four players {Grib, elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination} I don't think the unflipped there are scum and the flipped are both Town. This was when Bookitty was away V/LA. Still. So I was looking at the Bookitty wagon. Don't really trust Bellaphant via that. Started typing out what was wrong with her trajectory re Bookitty, but now I'm not sure at all. It's weird. Whatever. Basically the whole Bookitty wagon looks like it was Town-driven and either entirely or almost entirely (?) Town. Doesn't make Bookitty scum. But in light of the MS flip and the nature of competing wagons, it means something. Although to refocus on Bellaphant, her unvote and revote on MS seems a little bit sketchy to me. We never see what she processes of the info, which is why she unvotes in the first place . . . eh.

Based on Grib's view of how Yukari/Frogmollie Night stuff played out, at this point I think a Frogmollie lynch would be fine pending any exciting new revelations from Yukari's slot. Bookitty also looks like a good choice just based on wagons from Day 1, but I'll reread her regardless. The other under-the-radar players in due time.

Grib · Post Post #1340 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:54 am

I also have in my notes that you and ZZZX are likely not scum together. fake edit: oh right, because Andrius wanted to policy lynch ZZZX.

With Yukari failing to Vig anyone, plus that one time I thought he Rolecop slipped (which Frogger later wrote a case on, I kinda wish he had commented on it when I had originally brought it up but singer was the only one who acknowledged the post), plus [redacted], eh. He's at the very bottom of my townreads.

Grib · Post Post #1341 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:56 am

Honestly, if Frogging Mollie busted out all that AtE and OoG attacks and shit to push one mislynch, I'd be incredibly disappointed. You don't threaten to blacklist someone or personally insult them to bully everyone into following your lead.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

Grib · Post Post #1342 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:59 am

This is yesterDay's final votecount:

Vote Count 1.26

Metal Sonic (7) - ika, Hydrangea, Bookitty, dragonspawn, Frogging Mollie, Bellaphant, Yukari [LYNCH]
Frogging Mollie (2) - Metal Sonic, White Knight Imagination
Bookitty (2) - elusive, ZZZX
Yukari -
ZZZX -
Bellaphant -
dragonspawn -
elusive -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
White Knight Imagination -

Not Voting (2): Grib, Plum

If there's one scum off in la la land among the do-nothings (me, Plum, elusive, ZZZX), I'd say it's ZZZX.

Grib · Post Post #1343 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:00 am

Like.

All of the scum probably aren't on the MS bandwagon. MS and WKI are townfirmed. elusive is strong town, I'm super town. That leaves Plum and ZZZX ripe for the lynching.

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1344 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:01 am

↑ ika wrote:mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

I think this is an obvs set up which is what (you pointed this which makes us lean town on you!) I am struggling with and why I am okay with our lynch. I am not doing a repeat of you cld be any1.

if you were going to hard press me, where did you go? and why are you asking me this question?

I am not getting the angle of where you are going with this when I have already commented on my thoughts on the pie nk choice? was there something specific that you did not understand?

cld you plz answer as to why you are staying away from zzthing?

Grib · Post Post #1345 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:02 am

Oh, and my reads according to the MS wagon: strong town, townlean, null leaning scum x2, townlean, null leaning scum, null!Vig.

So. Say, three scum: two on, one off. Not accounting for any Third Parties.

Grib · Post Post #1346 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:06 am

Oh right, the Bookitty wagon. It topped for a little bit, but then the MS wagon was pushed harder.

Spoiler: Votals

Bookitty may have been a scum counterwagon, since I think mollie is town and MS is townfirmed. The wagon on Bookitty was all town, and then ZZZX and Yukari popped in for a bit.

Grib · Post Post #1347 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:08 am

Hm.

If Bookitty flips scum, that looks kind of bad for Hydrangea. She voteparked on Yukari for most of the Day, then switched to MS and stayed put.

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1348 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:43 am

↑ Plum wrote:I'm here, I'm here. I feel like I don't have the tools to use what information we have effectively. I feel like someone should know what the deal is with Frogmollie, like seriously, but it's not me and no one seems to have a slam dunk there (except . . . Yukari? Do you? Do you
really
?), which is frustrating. That said, I agree 100% with Grib that it's either that Yukari got Roleblocked or that he's scum. I'm tempted to just go along with what he's doing in response to that. Which would mean lynching Frogmollie.

It's the opposite of what you said, Yukari - Hydrangea defending Frogmollie increases odds of Hydrangea-scum if Frogmollie is Town, not if they're scum.

see, I don't think scum!hydraflower is a particular wonderful premise to operate from when we flip town. cld you unpack your reasons for me as to why this might be the case?

Mollie, why did you launch into speculah re who you'd have NK'd if you were scum? It's pointless WIFOM - like serious real WIFOM okay I'm using the buzzword for something meaningful here - so why?

cos I entered this thread with a couple of votes on us from pple who thought that I or my team wld make this particular nk choice? nka honestly reads like 2 birds with 1 stone in that once we flip town and if ika goes derp on us there is neighbourhood wifom to follow up with (OMG THERE IS SCUM IN THAT HOOD!) if yukari flips town? the only thing that makes sense to me at this point is if yukari is actually town and having a *moment* or if he as scum tried to do a 1v1 on d1 while interfering with another town up for the lynch? it makes no sense coming from scum. it is a diminished returns play. and he is dropping newb tells hard. the only way scum!him makes sense is if he is part of the grp either traitor or sk. but god, how he is playing doesn't fit that but newb/low info which is why he keeps landing in the unsure pile.

Correct.

And just because a couple of people have mentioned this, Andrius mentioned to me before the game even filled, in response to me saying something about my prior hiatus, that he didn't know how long he himself would be on the site, so I wasn't surprised when he replaced out. Could it have been influenced by his alignment? Possibly, probably had more to do with stuff unrelated to that, so &c.

okay, this fits with what I have experienced with andy.

One thing that strikes me looking back is the Day 1 Bookitty wagon. As it forms, even at four players {Grib, elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination} I don't think the unflipped there are scum and the flipped are both Town. This was when Bookitty was away V/LA. Still. So I was looking at the Bookitty wagon. Don't really trust Bellaphant via that. Started typing out what was wrong with her trajectory re Bookitty, but now I'm not sure at all. It's weird. Whatever. Basically the whole Bookitty wagon looks like it was Town-driven and either entirely or almost entirely (?) Town. Doesn't make Bookitty scum. But in light of the MS flip and the nature of competing wagons, it means
something
. Although to refocus on Bellaphant, her unvote and revote on MS seems a little bit sketchy to me. We never see what she processes of the info, which is why she unvotes in the first place . . . eh.

this is weird cos you have given andy a pass but are looking at bella? also cld you plz elaborate on what that "something" means?

Based on Grib's view of how Yukari/Frogmollie Night stuff played out, at this point I think a Frogmollie lynch would be fine pending any exciting new revelations from Yukari's slot. Bookitty also looks like a good choice just based on wagons from Day 1, but I'll reread her regardless. The other under-the-radar players in due time.

I think boo is a terrible lynch at the mo unless you want to argue with me about the nature of her waffling.

and I really don't understand why you do not want to sort the under the radar players right now when there are actual town willing to play the game and not go into /apathetic mode.

pressure and questions to the lurkers are a beautiful thing. it gets them back into the game which is what i want.

I keep bringing up zzthing and somehow I can't seem to get any1 who shld be looking at him to talk about him.

Frogging Mollie · Post Post #1349 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:57 am

↑ Grib wrote:Oh, and my reads according to the MS wagon: strong town, townlean, null leaning scum x2, townlean, null leaning scum, null!Vig.

So. Say, three scum: two on, one off. Not accounting for any Third Parties.

grib

in this order of analysis do you realize you have us as null leaning scum? when in 1346 you had us as town?

cld you walk me through your vca?