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Post Post #7075 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:37 am

Post by Plotinus »

not any of the people who have played with you before. haven’t played with any of the named people before either.
Is later than D3.
honestly don’t know if you in particular look town or not because i don’t have any experience with you. i have concerns about things your slot did when you weren’t active.
I did the trust her as town step and you didn’t do much but were paranoid of me yeah. proceeding anyway because it was mainly Ivy I was townreading at the time.
you did flail some in response to pressure. proceeding anyway.
yes you’re posting more than usual but i don’t know if it’s a storm or not. you are suddenly interested in this game after 10 Days of not being interested in it and you do like being scum more than you like being town but it’s also entirely possible that you’re just here because Ivy begged you to help prevent forcereplacement during the Italy trip and you got invested and stayed. I don’t know. i’m glad you’re here. proceeding anyway.
i haven’t seen much gloating about your scumgame
i haven’t seen delusions of grandeur either, aside from the novel idea to try lynching scum in LYLO.
yes waffling.
doesn’t look like trying to leave a legacy.
not antagonising everyone.
no MD theory rambles.
no case for why you could be scum
some argument about why you’re town i guess.
no but inactive hydra head.
no. the circumstances behind play and claim don’t look town but wasn’t you.
somewhat irrational. i mean the breaking strategy is weird but i dunno. i am not the best person to be judging rationality at the moment.
yes illogical theories.
not the best judge on what your intentional posting looks like vs unintentional posting so proceeding.
spontaneous, random, whimsical, idunno.
are you flat? well you’re upset because you think you’re being mislynched.
skipping the bonus question; it’s hard to tell what you’re behind on and what you’re not behind on but i am giving benefit of the doubt here.
Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

some resistance actually. given we’re 5 hours to deadline.
i haven’t spotted inconsistencies.
i think scum might have daychat? but i don’t remember but you have hydrachat anyway.

like i actually did see you post this in the other thread before and i went through the thing in my head but it was like “i dunno it’s really hard to tell because inactive hydrahead only here because Ivy’s gone to Italy, most of my concerns are about things mastin wasn’t around for”.


pedit: okay but you weren’t here. and you’re saying both that as town you’d be flailing about at random and that lynching you would be a mistake. does the flailing about in circles technique eventually lead you to lynching scum in LYLO? you’ll notice i’m also trying to keep an open mind while doing my read through. i’m not clearly aiming, or at times i appear to be aiming one way and at times i appear to be aiming another when it’s really based on who was posting more at the time. I’m working hard to avoid confbias a tunnelling. I did skip ahead to my concerns about your slot because the deadline is approaching but I’m still working my way through the thread. When I do finish I am pretty sure the answer will be clear, and it will be consistent. If we’re wrong about you then I will be suspicious of bbmolla tomorrow. I’ll keep in mind what you said about Brantz.
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Post Post #7076 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:40 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

Fuck it, by some insane virtue there's a Plotinus-Molla scumteam.
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Post Post #7077 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:50 am

Post by Plotinus »

Mastin i’m trying but I have concerns about things that happened in your slot when you weren’t here. most of my read on your slot is not based on you in particular but i tried and i did see some of your town tells and some of the not sure ones. i’ll go through and count.

what do you want us to do? i tried to chase down the brantz thing; found a town role in a completed game and found an ongoing game that can’t be talked about. brantz is vla until after the deadline. he’s not here to defend himself. the deadline is coming. if you want to hammer bbmolla before driix hammers you then you should do that. if you’re town, you can work together with us tomorrow, ivy will have time to explain my concerns. i’m convinceable. if you’re not town then whatever.
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Post Post #7078 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:55 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6914199#p6914199]post 7075[/url], Plotinus wrote:yes you’re posting more than usual but i don’t know if it’s a storm or not.
Do you know what my normal posting rate is?

Oh, maybe 2-3 times a day on average. Enough to keep up with the game.

Posting up a fucking storm is posting multiple times for the same post, spewing walls, and getting a posting rate of 10+ a day which damn straight is a fucking storm.

you are suddenly interested in this game after 10 Days of not being interested in it and you do like being scum more than you like being town but it’s also entirely possible that you’re just here because Ivy begged you to help prevent forcereplacement during the Italy trip and you got invested and stayed.
Which tells you...what, exactly?

Yep. That I'm town that got disinterested, but Ivy asked me to hold the fort, and I got invested and stayed, in spite of having not a damn clue what was going on.

i haven’t seen much gloating about your scumgame
What the fuck have you been reading? I've been shouting it the whole time.

i haven’t seen delusions of grandeur either, aside from the novel idea to try lynching scum in LYLO.
Subdued but most definitely there.

doesn’t look like trying to leave a legacy.
Because I fucking don't have a clue who the scum are, but I've been trying anyway. I'd 1v1 Molla except for the fact that I'm not fucking sure about him absolutely, it's just my best guess.

not antagonising everyone.
WHAT THE FUCK.
DO YOU THINK.
CALLING BASICALLY EVERYONE SCUM.
IS?!?

no case for why you could be scum
Definitely subdued, but present all the same.

somewhat irrational.
Somewhat?
SOMEWHAT?!?

I AM THE FUCKING NEW DRIPPINGGOOFBALL OF IRRATIONALITY.

are you flat? well you’re upset because you think you’re being mislynched.
No shit I know I'm being mislynched, so do you think that level of being upset is in any way flat?

Helpful hint. In L4D D1, there was "upset". I POSTED IN ALL CAPS to AP. But it was flat. It was faked. I wasn't actually upset because, fundamentally,
I knew he was right
.

Now compare THAT to HERE.

skipping the bonus question; it’s hard to tell what you’re behind on and what you’re not behind on but i am giving benefit of the doubt here.
To the contrary, there's no damn better game for the bonus question given that I was behind quite a lot and the best I had was sporadic updates in the PT we have that I only occasionally got.

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

some resistance actually. given we’re 5 hours to deadline.
Really now?
What?

From an inactive BRantz?

Drixx certainly holds fucking interest in lynching us, and Molla is saying there's nobody else who could be scum and you're warping things so that there's no other possible scum too and the only other player is us. I'd say that's a lot of fucking no resistance.

i haven’t spotted inconsistencies.
Like hell they're not there. *I* can spot the inconsistencies and I'm the one doing the fucking posting. That, even before you go into the hydra dissonance.

i think scum might have daychat? but i don’t remember but you have hydrachat anyway.
Thus why it is a fucking towntell that I have been rambling and yes I have been fucking rambling rather obviously.

and you’re saying both that as town you’d be flailing about at random and that lynching you would be a mistake. does the flailing about in circles technique eventually lead you to lynching scum in LYLO?
Maybe. Because lynching someone today and if it doesn't hit scum, someone tomorrow gives better chances than lynching us today (because we're town, natch) and not being around to lynch someone tomorrow.

Two chances that we control rather than none.

you’ll notice i’m also trying to keep an open mind while doing my read through.
You (and to some extent Molla) both
say
this, but I'm not actually seeing it right now.

It's all how I am scum for this, scum for that. How you're desperately appealing to Drixx to hammer us.

I will be suspicious of bbmolla tomorrow. I’ll keep in mind what you said about Brantz.
AKA, you'll be in 3p lylo with everyone on fucking even footing with all options being bad. Because someone who really SHOULDN'T HAVE FUCKING BEEN LYNCHED was.
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Post Post #7079 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:57 am

Post by Plotinus »

Plotinus wrote:not any of the people who have played with you before. haven’t played with any of the named people before either. <— null
Is later than D3. <— null
honestly don’t know if you in particular look town or not because i don’t have any experience with you. i have concerns about things your slot did when you weren’t active. <— null
I did the trust her as town step and you didn’t do much but were paranoid of me yeah. proceeding anyway because it was mainly Ivy I was townreading at the time. <— town i guess
you did flail some in response to pressure. proceeding anyway. <— town i guess
yes you’re posting more than usual but i don’t know if it’s a storm or not. you are suddenly interested in this game after 10 Days of not being interested in it and you do like being scum more than you like being town but it’s also entirely possible that you’re just here because Ivy begged you to help prevent forcereplacement during the Italy trip and you got invested and stayed. I don’t know. i’m glad you’re here. proceeding anyway. <— null because hydra makes it hard to tell
i haven’t seen much gloating about your scumgame <— scum
i haven’t seen delusions of grandeur either, aside from the novel idea to try lynching scum in LYLO. <— scum? i’ll be generous and call this null.
yes waffling. <— town
doesn’t look like trying to leave a legacy. <— scum
not antagonising everyone. <— going to be generous and call this null because maybe we define antagonising differently
no MD theory rambles. <— going to call this null in case i misremembered
no case for why you could be scum <— scum
some argument about why you’re town i guess. <— town
no but inactive hydra head. <— null
no. the circumstances behind play and claim don’t look town but wasn’t you. <— null, it wasn’t you that claimed.
somewhat irrational. i mean the breaking strategy is weird but i dunno. i am not the best person to be judging rationality at the moment. <— town i guess
yes illogical theories. <— town
not the best judge on what your intentional posting looks like vs unintentional posting so proceeding. <— null (i really can’t tell. sorry.)
spontaneous, random, whimsical, idunno. <— i don’t know. null.
are you flat? well you’re upset because you think you’re being mislynched. <— town i think?
skipping the bonus question; it’s hard to tell what you’re behind on and what you’re not behind on but i am giving benefit of the doubt here. <— null
Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

some resistance actually. given we’re 5 hours to deadline. <— driix was unsure. i’m also unsure it’s just i’m townreading bbmolla and i have concerns about you. brantz isn’t here. it took about a day after anyone proposed the idea of not lynching bbmolla today for anyone to vote you.
i haven’t spotted inconsistencies. <— going to call this one null too
i think scum might have daychat? but i don’t remember but you have hydrachat anyway. <— town?

like i actually did see you post this in the other thread before and i went through the thing in my head but it was like “i dunno it’s really hard to tell because inactive hydrahead only here because Ivy’s gone to Italy, most of my concerns are about things mastin wasn’t around for”.


so that’s 7 town, 3 scum, and a lot of nulls.
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Post Post #7080 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:57 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

(Oh. Another thing I need to add to the flowchart.
"Is mastin posting so much that it's detrimental to her health, in-game and/or out-of-game?"

The answer for both is...yes. Because I've been here, what, a full hour? And yet again, I meant it to be fifteen minutes most. I am supposed to leave for work in five minutes and I've got ten minutes worth of prep time minimum, so I'm fulfilling the out-of-game part just fine right now and the in-game part should be obvious by the, y'know, round upon round of circlejerking.)
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Post Post #7081 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:59 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

And fuck it.
I leave in five minutes.
I work for five+ hours in practice with the commute.
That's apparently after deadline.

Vote: BBMolla
.

Don't give a damn that this makes me the primary suspect for tomorrow if Molla flips scum. Some chance of lynching scum > no chance of lynching scum.
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Post Post #7082 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:01 am

Post by Plotinus »

Okay, well i hope to see you in twilight then. and no this isn’t a suspicious hammer. if you’re town it’s the right the play. if you’re scum it’s the right play. either way it’s the right play. I hope you were right about BBmolla.
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Post Post #7083 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:15 am

Post by Drixx »

This is an easy thought exercise. Assume the nuke is on its way to me right now. Assume also we kill BRantz, as you are suggesting.

That will leave you, Plot and BBmolla tomorrow, and you have essentially already said that you would lynch BBmolla in that situation. So why not simply skip ahead and kill BBmolla today?

If we instead assume that we kill BBmolla today, then it's you and Plot and BRantz tomorrow, and we already know you want BRantz dead.

If you are town, you seem to have already decided to bet the game that Plot is also town. The fatal flaws in allowing that to go forward are:

1.) If Plot is town, he's going to be highly inclined to follow your play so if you are scum you win.
2.) If Plot is scum, the "break the game" strategy fails and we lose.

I think it's more probable than not that Plot is town, based upon setup speculation; The werewolves had a BP and so they almost certainly had a mafia team in their game. That means that AD/Plot's BP against mafia claim couldn't be a role that came from a 2 mafia factions game. That makes his role exceedingly likely to be a town role. That narrows the suspect pool to {BBmolla, BC, BRantz}.

BBmolla seems the least likely from among that group to be scum. He claimed Tropical Volcano Lair Miller super early on before anyone (other than the Tropical mafia) could have known that specific name, and before anyone knew there was an investigator who would get specific scum faction results. If he were Tropical mafia, he had ridiculously good foresight to claim a specific kind of miller instead of just miller. He also demonstrably had a power that seems unlikely to be assigned to scum.

That leaves You and Brantz.

BRantz had the ability to remove himself from the game to avoid being lynched, which is certainly a scummy looking ability. If Brantz ends up in a 3 person LYLO, I would expect him to be the person who gets lynched.

If you end up in a three person LYLO, I do
not
think you would be lynched.

Since we have, at best, two lynches left, and since Logic and setup Spec make BBmolla and Plot very unlikely to be scum, that leaves BC and Plot. Given that BC would almost certainly survive in LYLO and thinking things through makes me think that scum is almost certainly one of BC and BRantz, it makes sense to remove the one today who people would be very hesitant or unlikely to remove tomorrow.

Unless someone can poke any holes in how I arrived here, I'm going to hammer BC.


P-edit: That was a bullshit move Mastin. You chose survival over maximizing town win chances. I'm so angry at you right now I could spit. If you're town, you just cost town the game, because there's no fucking way I'm going to shut up on hammering home the point that what you just did is ridiculously scummy, not to mention this post logically narrowed the scum pool down to you and BRantz, basically guaranteeing the town a win and you chose to lynch someone who is logically very likely town in order to save your own ass.

Bullshit scum play right there.
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Post Post #7084 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:16 am

Post by Drixx »

Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:And fuck it.
I leave in five minutes.
I work for five+ hours in practice with the commute.
That's apparently after deadline.

Vote: BBMolla
.

Don't give a damn that this makes me the primary suspect for tomorrow if Molla flips scum. Some chance of lynching scum > no chance of lynching scum.


You selfish piece of fecal matter. You
knew
I was town, and you fucking
knew
I was using the time and you behaved like a coward. I'm seriously just going to go in the other room. You managed to make me legitimately mad about a mafia game; congratulations.
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Post Post #7085 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:17 am

Post by Drixx »

Just in case it's not too late:

VOTE: Bulbasaur Commonwealth
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Post Post #7086 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:18 am

Post by Drixx »

I freaking knew I should have made a short unvote post while I was assembling the logical progression post.
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Post Post #7087 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:20 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

Actually, I was kinda legit wanting BRantz to show up by voting him. Ya don't just disappear like that, dude.

Anyways, Mastin, step away for the night, and I'll get myself caught up.

-Ivy

P-EDIT: ...We'll see.

PE2: I'm sorry, you're getting mad that Venus made a vote before she wouldn't have been able to before the deadline hit without guarantees that I'd be there to change it for her?
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Post Post #7088 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:40 am

Post by Plotinus »

Spoiler: quotewall
Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:
In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6914199#p6914199]post 7075[/url], Plotinus wrote:yes you’re posting more than usual but i don’t know if it’s a storm or not.
Do you know what my normal posting rate is?

Oh, maybe 2-3 times a day on average. Enough to keep up with the game.

Posting up a fucking storm is posting multiple times for the same post, spewing walls, and getting a posting rate of 10+ a day which damn straight is a fucking storm.
k. town then for this point.

you are suddenly interested in this game after 10 Days of not being interested in it and you do like being scum more than you like being town but it’s also entirely possible that you’re just here because Ivy begged you to help prevent forcereplacement during the Italy trip and you got invested and stayed.
Which tells you...what, exactly?

Yep. That I'm town that got disinterested, but Ivy asked me to hold the fort, and I got invested and stayed, in spite of having not a damn clue what was going on.


It tells me that you being here is null. It means you’re either town or scum. townYou was asked to hold down the fort and got invested and stayed or scumYou was looking forward to a challenge. It tells me that you’re a good friend to VoidedMafia who had put a lot of work into this game regardless of their alignment and you also did all of the rest of us a big favour because nobody likes replacing into an almost 300 page game.

i haven’t seen much gloating about your scumgame
What the fuck have you been reading? I've been shouting it the whole time.
I’ve read 200 pages in 5-6 days. maybe we define gloating differently. i’ve been gloating about my recently completed town game. if it weren’t so close to the deadline i probably would have done ctrl-f before answering this one. you did reference your scum game in . but you had a scum game that ended in March that i didn’t read i just found it while searching for ascetic. and in you said this wasn’t your scumgame. you’ve started gloating about your scum game since i answered that, sure.

i haven’t seen delusions of grandeur either, aside from the novel idea to try lynching scum in LYLO.
Subdued but most definitely there.
ok i’m going to trust you on that then.

doesn’t look like trying to leave a legacy.
Because I fucking don't have a clue who the scum are, but I've been trying anyway. I'd 1v1 Molla except for the fact that I'm not fucking sure about him absolutely, it's just my best guess.
ok. well we’ll find out soon if you were right about molla. if you weren’t we have another two weeks to figure this out. like i don’t expect you to be leaving a legacy here either. you don’t have to. just work with the town if you’re town.

not antagonising everyone.
WHAT THE FUCK.
DO YOU THINK.
CALLING BASICALLY EVERYONE SCUM.
IS?!?
that’s scum hunting! scumhunting is good! antagonising people is what kuribo does, like when he said he was going to rip someone’s soul out of their chest, shit on it, and then put it back in. that’s antagonising. or when wgeurts was calling us the r-word for thinking he might be scum, which was really offensive to me personally and deathfisaro got himself modkilled over it which was an overreaction. trying to figure out who the remaining scum is, that’s a good thing you should be doing if you’re town. so town points for that anyway.

no case for why you could be scum
Definitely subdued, but present all the same.
ok i must have missed it. i’ve heard a lot about why you’re not scum because this isn’t your scum meta and very little about why you might be scum.

somewhat irrational.
Somewhat?
SOMEWHAT?!?

I AM THE FUCKING NEW DRIPPINGGOOFBALL OF IRRATIONALITY.
ok? like i’m not at my most rational right now either but i’m trying.

are you flat? well you’re upset because you think you’re being mislynched.
No shit I know I'm being mislynched, so do you think that level of being upset is in any way flat?

Helpful hint. In L4D D1, there was "upset". I POSTED IN ALL CAPS to AP. But it was flat. It was faked. I wasn't actually upset because, fundamentally,
I knew he was right
.

Now compare THAT to HERE.
maybe when i finish reading 300 pages i will have time to chase down these other games you keep pointing me at, and i seriously will if i have time but I think this is another distinction that is going to be hard for me to tell because it relies on theory of mind stuff and being able to tell if someone is all capsing because they’re channelling their inner townkuribo or all capsing because they’re feeling flat. if i’m passing on a question, i’m assigning it null value. it’s not your fault if i have trouble telling fake emotion real flat from fake flat real emotion so i’m not penalising you for that.

skipping the bonus question; it’s hard to tell what you’re behind on and what you’re not behind on but i am giving benefit of the doubt here.
To the contrary, there's no damn better game for the bonus question given that I was behind quite a lot and the best I had was sporadic updates in the PT we have that I only occasionally got.
ok but i legit cannot tell what things you know about and what you don’t. like i thought you knew about the narn thing on day 3 but it turns out you knew about the narn thing on day 6 and worked it out in hindsight. that even makes more sense than working it out on day 3.

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

some resistance actually. given we’re 5 hours to deadline.
Really now?
What?

From an inactive BRantz?

Drixx certainly holds fucking interest in lynching us, and Molla is saying there's nobody else who could be scum and you're warping things so that there's no other possible scum too and the only other player is us. I'd say that's a lot of fucking no resistance.
it took 24 hours for us to go from “maybe we could try lynching someone who isn’t bbmolla because bbmolla is sure looking towny” to me saying “hmm the deadline is approaching, what if i put a vote down so that this thing has a non zero chance of happening. and then another while before bbmolla voted. and then drixx didn’t hammer, drixx spent a while thinking about it and trying to make up his mind and he wasn’t sure. and now it’s twilight and nobody’s saying lynch mastin for sure tomorrow, not even me who has some concerns about your slot that i want resolved before i vote anybody at all tomorrow. I want us to spend lylo talking rationally like adults and using FoS instead of voting until we’re as damn sure as we’re going to get and then I want to win the game for town. If you’re town, I want to win with you. If you’re scum, I want to win it with not-you.

i haven’t spotted inconsistencies.
Like hell they're not there. *I* can spot the inconsistencies and I'm the one doing the fucking posting. That, even before you go into the hydra dissonance.
ok. me not spotting things doesn’t mean they’re not there.

i think scum might have daychat? but i don’t remember but you have hydrachat anyway.
Thus why it is a fucking towntell that I have been rambling and yes I have been fucking rambling rather obviously.
okay town points for that one. i didn’t know how much you talked anyway as a baseline. this is my first game with you.

and you’re saying both that as town you’d be flailing about at random and that lynching you would be a mistake. does the flailing about in circles technique eventually lead you to lynching scum in LYLO?
Maybe. Because lynching someone today and if it doesn't hit scum, someone tomorrow gives better chances than lynching us today (because we're town, natch) and not being around to lynch someone tomorrow.

Two chances that we control rather than none.
ok. well i hope i see some of that tomorrow. it is okay if you’re not townreading me 100% yet. i know you like meta so you can look at my previous games if you like. they are all linked from my wiki. i have a couple offsite games but i use a different name over there and i don’t want to link the two nicknames because i have stalker problems and if only one of my nicks gets found that’s only one group of friends i have to abandon but if you’re going to insist then i could do something like change my avatar on that site to temporarily match the one i have here or something.

you’ll notice i’m also trying to keep an open mind while doing my read through.
You (and to some extent Molla) both
say
this, but I'm not actually seeing it right now.
you’ll see it when i’m done the analysis. your hydra was a lot more active in the 3000-4000 range and brantz had like 3 posts or something and drixx was being annoying but she isn’t under consideration right now and bbmolla was consistently trying to get people to refocus and lynch scum and ignore the distractions and there were a lot of distractions. I remember that brantz gets more active later and i can ignore bbmolla as soon as i know how he flips and so the next 80 pages are going to be easier. I *have* seen a lot I like from your hydra too. There’s a reason I came out of your ISO with such a strong townread the first time. When I catch up to that post I’ll have a better understanding of what to make of it.

It's all how I am scum for this, scum for that. How you're desperately appealing to Drixx to hammer us.
because bbmolla has been acting really protown this day phase and pretty much all game and i was pretty sure he wasn’t scum. maybe i was wrong and this is game over. i’m kind of hoping that’s the case now.

I will be suspicious of bbmolla tomorrow. I’ll keep in mind what you said about Brantz.
AKA, you'll be in 3p lylo with everyone on fucking even footing with all options being bad. Because someone who really SHOULDN'T HAVE FUCKING BEEN LYNCHED was.
well now things are different. tomorrow if Drixx is around then we can talk about Godfathers. if Drixx isn’t around then we don’t have to worry about that. We are not lynching anybody tomorrow until we’ve considered all options.


pedit: lots of stuff.
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Post Post #7089 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:42 am

Post by Plotinus »

BRantz wrote:
@mod: I am going to be V/LA from tomorrow until next Monday in Vegas. Will try to check in at least once a day though.


he hasn’t posted in over 5 days but i’d prefer he didn’t get force replaced. that would really suck for LYLO.
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Post Post #7090 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:43 am

Post by Plotinus »

In ,
deathfisaro
points out that if nuke from orbit was a day kill,
Ozgin
should have been daykilled on Day 2 after outing
his
results because
he
was going to be bulletproof on night 2. I think that’s the strongest evidence so far of delayed nightkill.

These ten pages are almost entirely deadline scramble and dead people talking and
titus vs drixx
and
house
still getting acquainted with the game and trying to decide whether or not to activate
BBmolla
and then the deadline is frozen because so many replacements.
Elusive
replaces in.

BC
asks whoever nukes to nuke
Drixx
.
Vonflare
says the same about
Trousers
in .

That was 191-200. I finished typing this 15 minutes after my but i didn’t want to bury the intent to hammer.
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Post Post #7091 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:44 am

Post by Plotinus »

Molla were you town?


because if not I can skip 83 pages.
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Post Post #7092 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:21 am

Post by Bulbasaur Commonwealth »

btw, what exactly was so important about 4050, Plot?
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Post Post #7093 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:16 pm

Post by Cuttlefish »

Vote Count 10.06

BBmolla (3)
- BRantz, Drixx, Bulbasaur Commonwealth
Bulbasaur Commonwealth (2)
- Plotinus, BBmolla

Not Voting (0)


With 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-06-01 21:10:00)


----------

BBmolla
-
Tropical Volcano Lair Mafia One-Shot Barista
- Lynched day ten.

Drixx
-
Town Argyrophilic
- Nuked from orbit day ten.


It is now twilight ten. You may submit your night actions now. Day eleven will start when I have received PMs from all the living players requesting such.
*Cuddle*
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Post Post #7094 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:26 pm

Post by BBmolla »

lol
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Post Post #7095 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:27 pm

Post by BBmolla »

We didn't have a nightkill, don't know who nuke is, good luck
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Post Post #7096 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:30 pm

Post by BBmolla »

I would have won in a 1:1 with whoever nuke is though because of Volcano passive. And our faction had a factional protection that could be used on any of ourselves.
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Post Post #7097 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:35 pm

Post by Plotinus »

it’s late and i’m tired and i forgot to eat today but i’ll try quoting and responding:

Spoiler: this is long
Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:
deathfisaro wrote:Lol I must be scum for targeting an unconventional JK. Perfect argument, I can't win against that, let's get the wagon going everyone, whoever's not voting is scum.

I miss copper, who has the brain to reason. Drixx used to be such too, but not in this game. I wonder why *hint hint*

You're not scum for targeting us (to be frank, considering who ELSE is in this hydra, investigating us N1 was a GOOD idea...or would be if not for the fact there were honestly far better people to check N1 because we weren't strong D1; N2 would've been better). You're scum because you were pushing the false narrative that we were somehow "investigation proof" when in fact you just got no result because of our role. We would've bought that you were being a little overeager on this, but when you didn't come back and change your tune from "investigation proof" to "no result" we knew you were just bullshitting.


well, how do you define investigation proof? if you were modding a game and you designed an investigation proof character, their role name would be what, Godfather? something along those lines? Investigation Immune SK? in a theme game maybe an ability like Cloak of Invisibility or something? Ninja? are there any circumstances under which a competent mod would PM a tracker/cop/etc with “your target is investigation immune” if they are investigation immune for realsies in the conventional sense? If you were really a Godfather/Ninja/Cloak of Invisiblity Wearer, the result should be “not mafia” or “you didn’t see your target go anywhere last night” (identical wording to if they actually didn’t go anywhere) or “innocent” or whatever. so you knew that whatever PM deathfisaro got, it didn’t say investigation immune or investigation proof or whatever.

but you also knew that as a result of your reflex jailkeep status, if only one player targets you they will get “no result” instead of “BC is a member of the
town
” (if you’re town) or “You didn’t see BC go anywhere last night” for tracker or whatever. You knew that in practice you had a role that could prevent you from being investigated unless you got several people to co-ordinate and that’s risky because it could draw nightkills and it’s a cool role regardless of alignment and stuff.

I think what stood out the most about this is that throughout the entire game you’ve been really levelheaded and trying to reach out to people and I admired that and this didn’t fit with that. but we’ve discussed this to death already. You don’t need to keep telling me it was a misunderstanding. It was what it was. I can see your perspective too especially since it took a lot of tries and back and forth for deathfisaro to even understand that it was important that he say the words “no result”. it turned out he’d never had an investigative role before and that’s why.

Drixx wrote:That's a really bad play deathfisaro. Town should never self vote as it screws up any analysis of the wagon afterward.

Also, you got counterclaimed and the situation is an either/or. Either you are lying or the BC hydra is lying. If you were town, you should be thrilled to trade 1-for-1 to get scum yeah?

All of this post, btw.
But he flipped town after all. maybe neither of you were lying.

Cerberus v666 wrote:Neutral - vonflare-lurkingish <<< people think he's scum. Remind self why.

Almost strategic lurking wherein he tries to go with the flow of things (very blatantly at times, with some of his sheepvotes) while staying back. Some of the times where he's active and aggressive he seems almost ridiculously dumb going about it (like his push on OC).
agree with your words. but your voting history with both vonflare and vyse is suspicious to me.

Cerberus v666 wrote:Scum - Bulbasaur Commonwealth (Bulbazak & mastin2 & Voidedmafia) - neutral, moved to scum after claim. Lots of WoQ type posts, but IIRC, not much PRESSURE on people, in spite of taking the time to isolate things which interest them and reference back to said things. Feels like specious participation, without active hunting.

Well, we pushed copper all of D2 and the latter half of D1, I helped push Lihin yesterday. Yes, both flipped town so if you want to say we pushed the wrong people go ahead, but yeah. (I am admittedly more of a passive pusher, so I'm not going to personally (as in, this specific hydra head) hold that against you.

agree that i’ve seen pushes from your slot and scumhunting. I think that the Lihin thing was justified given that you were the target of her power and she used it in a saving-her-skin kind of way. I still think there’s something about the copper push that i’m not sure of but I know that’s not specific enough and I’ll do a combined ISO of the two of you when I’m done with this and either pull out quotes to ask questions or I’ll admit to being wrong and drop it. you can’t defend yourself against me having a feeling that something is off and i don’t expect you to.

Cerberus v666 wrote:BC's claim isn't a counter claim. It's admitting a reason why his power didn't work, and was also a fairly terrible play in a no pressure environment(again) of someone with a role that makes them immune to a kill just outing themselves, and thus creating more WiFoM for us when they don't die. It was terrible, and not a town play.

You're missing something, Cerb. Neither bulb nor I would've had a problem with Death's claim if he said "no result" (which should be the actual return from investigating us since JK protects and RBs the target). If that was the case it'd fit with your statement of admitting why [death's] power didn't work.

However, the problem comes from the fact that Death claimed that we're
investigation immune
. The first part of it is that it is a clear exaggeration of his result without accounting for the possible reasons or roles that could interrupt investigations that aren't Invs.-immunity. The second part is that, despite given the opportunity to revise what he had, he did not change his stance on us. I will revise an earlier statement I made, as no one actually asked him to confirm what his result on us was (dammit, I haven't learned from UB1 after all <_<), but the fact remains that he pushed us as being II without much to back it up.

So, since it apparently wasn't done before, I'm doing it here now: Death, I want you to pull up your D1 investigation PM (or ask Cuttles for it), and I want you to confirm: Was it "Investigation Immune" or "no result”?


i think i addressed this above. I think it is unfortunate that it took death a long time to understand what was being asked of him and why.

Titus also raises a fair point. Investigation Immune, if with town, is something like a Miller that needs to be claimed as early as possible. I know Venus or Bulb would post as much if we had that. There is also the fact that you didn't try to push this yesterday. Yes, I'm aware you might've had us as a scumread, but you didn't really push us on it (and don't even try to call me on hypocrisy here, Cerb). Not claiming was fine because I wouldn't claim after one result, but not pushing us as a hard scumread is rather telling. The self-pitying self-vote isn't really helping, either.


there’s a reason he didn’t push it on day 2 (he thought no result meant not werewolf) but you couldn’t have known that yet so you get a pass for that. The thing is you did know, or could have guessed, that at some point a cop might target you and get a no result and wonder what was up with that. did you crumb it? i’m not that great at crumb hunting — so far the only times i’ve noticed crumbs were from people who weren’t actually crumbing anything.

Like deathfisaro i am also not well versed in all of the nonsuspicious reasons this could have happened. the day before, when ozgin had a guilty on pirate ika, a lot of people were speculating that it could have been framer or bus driver and other people (rightly i think) were upset about that. maybe deathfisaro, who was one of the “what if it is a town bus driver” people was watching and learning from that. so the next day when he thought he had something incriminating on you, maybe he was primed to think that from the prior day’s discussion.

maybe this is too much hindsight bias on my part. if so, i’m sorry. i’m trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

ALso, Cerb, the argument about pressure isn't really a point. Death is claiming something that goes against what we know our role does. Why should we not jump on him for that?

deathfisaro wrote:It just boggled my mind I had to come back.
BPs are shot limited, probably 1 shot. So when it comes to worst, scums just have to shoot them twice over two nights, or let them live but kill everyone else for the win.
With 1 scum from each faction gone, you need 2 or fewer town alive for scum endgame. How are they going to kill 2 NK resistant and 1 NK proof and win? If all three are town, this game was broken from the design and we all wasted our time by actually playing it.

Also, looking at cerb's last post not everyone's made up their mind as to which kill flavour belong to which faction (as in scum or SK). I think my role suggests a clear setup, and I don't know why Drixx hasn't made up his mind yet because he supposedly has the same amount of info to work with. Heart not in the game?

He might be, given D2.

Though, if all scum have sussed out which of Drixx and Dan were immune to each other, I'd think the non-BP'd team would shoot that BP player. Although, with Dan being such a non-entity it's actually okay to leave him be for now.


i think it’s entirely possible scum was hoping the two of us would be mislynched, dan was lurking and then i was lackluster for a long time and drixx wasn’t being a paragon of towniness either. there were better targets anyway. 8 cops. 3 masons and 1 neighbour. who do you want to bring with you to LYLO? the masons or the player that everyone’s tired of and is hoping they’ll go away. and then i replaced in and made my own share of mistakes.



those are all of the thoughts i can think of for that post. i think a lot of it has been rehashed though. a lot of it hinges on what i think you could have been expected to guess at the time. i’ll think about it some more when i’m awake.

what i’m more concerned about right now is the several votes on vonflare and vyse that were too brief to make the official votecounts and I guess mastin’s breaking strategy that really just looked like “the town needs to vote scum in lylo” which is underwhelming but i’m really trying not to burden of proficiency her because i know that’s not fair. if I hurt her feelings then I’m truly sorry because I try to remember that there’s a person behind the screen and I think most of the time I succeed but I was making fun of her earlier with the breaking strategy and if she is town then that was wrong of me.

Does anyone who has meta experience with mastin know if she scumposts in the confirmation stage regularly? because sometimes people claim scum or say they’re breaking out the chainsaw or joke “you caught me” in response to an RVS vote and they’re just being silly but in this game the people saying “i hope there’s a lot of nightkills” have mostly been scum so i’ve been starting to take that seriously when i see it, at least seriously enough to RVS people that i see doing it but outside of this game the two people i “caught” in RVS were town anyway. but like experiential meta either way from someone (even her i guess) would be nice.

there might have been something else but it’s late and i don’t remember. there will be some kind of coherent case at the very end of this.

if it feels like i keep bringing up the same topics again and again it’s because i’m liveblogging my reread of the thread and most major game events have spanned several pages and many posts but when i make an actual case I’ll condense it into “the copper thing” (if i figure out what i mean by that) and “the deathfisaro thing” and “the vonflare and vyse thing” and any other thing that might come up and i don’t expect you to refute again and again and if you’ve already refuted some of it i’ll probably cite that in my case and maybe it’ll end up with just a paragraph about I thought x about topic but link to refutation so fair enough.

I think we’re probably already at an impasse on the deathfisaro thing, for what it’s worth.

also if it seems like i’m not focusing all that much on BRantz don’t worry, “where the heck were you all of day 3” is probably going to factor into Brantz’ case. He wasn’t around generating very much content but he wasn’t pseudocided at the time so the lack of content is something to talk about.

I have also intentionally not been focusing superhard on Drixx being annoying because I’m expecting them to get nuked because conftown and Drixx has since stopped being annoying and I’m scared that if I bring it up too much he’ll start again but if he’s still here tomorrow there can be a paragraph about what the heck drixx.


pedit: wtf we were in LYLO after all. Really thankful to mastin right now for dropping that hammer.


i am currently betting on brantz for nuke but not voting until sure. bulbasaur’s votes on and off vyse/vonflare no longer look suspicious though!

molla explain how a mafia team doesn’t have a factional kill go.
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Post Post #7098 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:44 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Plotinus wrote:molla explain how a mafia team doesn’t have a factional kill go.

Any time we were equal to the rest of the players we won. We had a factional protect.

Think of it like a survivor faction.
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Post Post #7099 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:47 pm

Post by Plotinus »

but there were four kill flavours: incinerate, devour, eviscerate, nuke. and there were four colours that flipped: red, orange, blue, purple. two mafia factions 1 sk 1 werewolf

what you’re suggesting suggests a fourth faction with a kill, let’s call it a yellow faction, another SK. if that’s true, then Brantz makes the most sense. no? because his role seems like a counterpart to oranje’s role
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