Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[dragonspawn]

There was a fruit crumb?

[Tere]

Oh hey dragon hey dragon hey.

Where is your head at with regard to:

Plum
Yukari / Cho
ZZthing
Bella
Hydrangea

gogogo

[Tere]

Also @mollie I ISOed ZZthing and I think he's lost town currently being used as lynchbait. Don't want to lynch him today for sure.

[Tere]

Yukari trawl.

First off, I should say that Cho's entrance hasn't exactly wowed me but she's had 3 days only. I want to see what she does next.

Spoiler: Notes reading through Yukari's ISO

Yukari early on looks like flailing newb with a power role they don't want and don't understand. The kvetching about wanting to go back to matrix 6 is true BTW, they are now happily ensconced in a newbie game and Mina has sorted them out so they certainly weren't fibbing about that. Wanting to be NKed is annoying and anti town but could well be related to that.

One thing that did make me wonder vig early on when reading through originally is their annoyed reaction to elusive mentioning vig as a possibility in 121.

Stuff like 147 and 197 looks a good deal like paranoid newbtown.

They give a scumbuddy point to Plum at 128 and MS at 160, lean town on singer at 194 before settling down to tunnel on MS for a bit.

I lean very slightly that even newbscum might not make a post like 228 where they don't get that Ori is a role name. Not that conclusive though I guess.

First crumb of a power role is at 288

I kinda actually sorta like 304 better than I remember - this doesn't read like defensive noobscum to me somehow. It looks relaxed, kind of "fuck you I have an ace in my pocket". The response to their meta change at 448 actually looks OK too. The reach out to MS (even though clearly thinking about vigging if really the vig) in 471 also is OK. This is backed up by 536.

475 and 482 suggests possibly not on a scumteam with plum - can't see newbscum confidently scumreading a scumbuddy like that.

"We mostly agree with this read on mollie, can def see her as scum, which is a scary thought since she oozes town vibes to us. We want to believe mollie is town." in 590 oozes but I want to believe townvibes to me. There's a fair bit of ISO reading and sorting which looks OK too. The desire for people to come back and post (e.g. 704 ) looks town too, as does the push on the Boo wagon people at 845.

Vig out is at 1024 - that post plus several others speaks of a bunch of frustration and just wanting for the game to end. More fishing for a scum NK to go back to matrix 6 is antitown and annoying but compatible with their agenda there.

Their explanation of why they aren't the SK seems to match their style at 1181. Even newb SK would know not to stand out as much as Yukari did Day 1, surely?

The mollietunnel is bad reasoning but more likely town than scum I think. The self vote at 1300 just looks miserable and hard to see coming from groupscum.

TL:DR?

Apart from AAAAAAAAAAAAAuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggh having reread through I am erring toward putting Yukari into the townpile at least for today. I don't think I think they are groupscum looking at interactions on their side with Plumscum (so OK Plum, you can have that you probably weren't coaching in thread after all). Plus I see the please NK me thanks as very unlikely when you know you have a team you can talk to and support you.

I really want to see what Cho does with this slot. OK they might continue to be roleblocked by scum (that's where my money is on what happened last night) but there's plenty of other ways to obvtown themselves. I guess it could be the SK slot given no other NK last night (I need to reread the set up again but IIRC there's a definite SK?) and Yukari decided to play for town but I think I want to try to find groupscum today.

[Tere]

I'm town, Yukari was town, Mollie is town, ika is town, Plum leans town, will ISO ZZZX and get some other pressing stuff on the table in an hour or so.

Why is Plum a town lean for you, Cho?

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 2.9

ZZZX (4)

- Frogging Mollie, Hydrangea, Plum, Grib

[L-2]

Bellaphant (1)

- ZZZX

Bookitty (1)

- Cho

Cho (1)

- dragonspawn

dragonspawn (1)

- ika

Plum (1)

- Tere
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Tere -


Not Voting (2): Bellaphant, Bookitty

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-06-13 19:30:19), or June 13th, 6:30PM CST (GMT-6).

Hydrangea is V/LA until June 9th.

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[dragonspawn]

Oh hey dragon hey dragon hey.

Where is your head at with regard to:

Plum
Yukari / Cho
ZZthing
Bella
Hydrangea

gogogo

Still town for zzz

Still scum for cho.

The other three I am not really happy with due to the way they jumped on the wagon. I especially am wary of Bella at the moment.

They obviously aren't all scum if I'm right about cho. Especially since I'm suspecting boo as well. But like I've said before the way they jumped on the wagon like they doesn't feel right to me.

I also don't think plum, Bella, and hydra are all scum together. Two might by but I'm not sure all the scum would act.together in concert.

What do you think of them?

[Tere]

I agree with Zzthing.

I don't think cho is groupscum after my reread. They could be SK, but I just don't see Yukari as SK being that ballsy - they came over as in general a conservative player, playing to their wincon less because they wanted to go back to matrix6. But Cho hasn't exactly filled me with townfeels and needs to do something.

The L-1 by Bella bothers me but reading the rest of her ISO feels a little better. She's fairly new and this could be newbtown trying to work things out.

I had notes about hydrangea looking like a bit like lost town when I read through, but she's barely registering now and that worries me. I need to reread her.

Plum is sneaky slithery obvscum to me. And that L-2 vote on ZZthing without saying was horribad, particularly given it seemed to be a lazy 180 degree shift based on something Grib said when she was town reading him day 1. Just looks desperately opportunistic. I think Bella might be the town caught in that trap and hydrangea and Plum may be the scum on that wagon. Plum is clearly very likeable and it kinda bugs me that peeps seem to be townreading her from that.

Boo I had strong scumfeels for on a first skim before I replaced in but I felt better about her when I reread her slot, particularly around the end of Day 1 when she seemed genuinely lost town trying to figure things out.

Bonus what I think of you: I wasn't getting great townfeels from singer and you don't feel very impactful having replaced in. My problem with you is I know you look scummy when town. I need to reread you and have a think.

Apart from Plum my lynch pool is too wide ATM. Bah and double bah.

Would you do me a favour and go read Plum's ISO and see what you think?

[dragonspawn]

Sure but it will have to be a bit later.

[Tere]

OK, but it would be much appreciated! <3

BTW I just reread hydrangea and my townfeels on that slot took a nosedive. Would prefer Plum though.

[Tere]

**All Role PMs are now out. Confirm in thread. Day starts when 10/12 are confirmed.**

**Also note that the alignments in this game are flavored. The following are known to be in the game:

Hope = Town
Despair = Mafia

If any other alignments exist in the game, their flavored alignment will be flipped and clarified at the same time.**

Pulling this up to here for myself to remind me that a third party is not guaranteed in this set up!

[ika]

getting over a hangingover will get to this tonightish

[Frogging Mollie]

Just a quick note in here to say I'm back from my part of the Frogging Mollie V/LA (I'm not sure if Mollie is yet). I'll read through and give my thoughts today.

(Frog)

[Frogging Mollie]

okay so lets try some set up spec here cos I want to leave a decent trail.

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.

---

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Spoiler: Ability PMs

Town:

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- You have no special characteristics.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. They will be protected against a single kill. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn who that player visited, if anyone. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn what type of actions targeted that player, if any. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that they were given fruit. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- If an investigative role that returns a form of "Guilty" or "Not Guilty" targets you, you will return the guilty result. You will not be informed if this occurs.

Mafia:

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn the role of that player. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game. You will not be informed if this occurs.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- Every attempt to target you with a kill action will fail. You will not be informed if this occurs.

what are pple's thoughts on that the 3 town and 1 scum will be from each of the 4 pools? cos that is how I interpret it to mean, does anybody else?

claimed, flipped roles:

flipped 2 neighbours, metal and wni

confirmed: 3rd neighbour, ika
claimed: vt, us

ika are you soft-claiming a neighbour/fruit vendor? cos that is what it looks like you are soft-claiming. which does not make sense to me but you are better at set-up spec than I, cld you help me out here? tere?

anybody else?

I am going to keep reposting this until some1 notices and decides to i dunno, do set up spec with 2 flipped roles and 2 claims I mean colour me silly but this might actually prove to be beneficial.

tere how exactly is your lynch pool wide? I mean the only scumread you have is plum. every1 else you have given some indication is town at some point except your recent change on hydraflower.

I am so done with this game.

cho and I need to be sorted TODAY. not tomorrow, not the next day, TODAY, period end of story.

also ika don't ignore me I asked you if you are a fruit vendor yes or no. if no then why were you asking if any1 got fruit.

VOTE: cho

[Tere]

So can you please try and sort Plum instead of something something ancient history I like her and want to keep her around because I like her? Because I am seeing nothing in her ISO giving me warm fuzzies.

And if you think I only have one scumread then you aren't reading because I am not OK on the dragonslot as I've made clear. I know dragon looks scummy as town but singer wasn't giving me townfeels.

[Tere]

V/LA till Monday morning.

[Bellaphant]

reading back now but can you mention it again? I am pretty sure I cant remeber you saying anything true/making sense about it.

Look, I assume you are taking a pot shot, 'coz you just quoted why I'm scum-reading you. I get what you are saying about 'it's not non content', but there's not a huge amount to town-read there. If you ARE town, then please stop stuff like this and try to engage with people, so we can rule you out of the scum-pool: Tere called you lynchbait. Boo wants you to be more 'helpful'. You had a wagon on you that can't really be all scum, so maybe accept, if you are town, that you need to make this clearer.

Z, if you are town what is the best way to engage you because I'd like for that to happen rather than for you to be lynchbait?

In the meantime:

VOTE: Plum

because I am still not feeling anything in her ISO is coming from a genuine town standpoint.

People who are townreading her, I'd love to know why, because I am not sharing that viewpoint at all.

I will tell you who else was starting to WTF at her yesterday though - the dead townie....

*snipped wni's quote*

Ms had a pretty consistent scum-reading of her too.

Ugh, Tere, please be town, 'coz this is a much better version of what I've been trying to say, and I'd love to know the answer to your question.

[Cho]

-.-

one sec im going to phrapharse last nights dicussion.

i have a lot to relook at right now.

well not much happend.

but to sum ups pies reads in a nutshell:

elusive town
me town
yukari town
ZZZX is town

hydra i would say is light town
singer/dragon light town

bella null

mollie/boo scum

plume is annoying and couldnt read

everyone else is annoying

I don't see why on Day 2 we need to lynch the vig ASAP. Even if you think I'm scum (which claiming vig of all fakeclaims out of nowhere D1 would be dumb af to do, no matter how low of an opinion you have of Yukari).

Also unexpected loss of internet access; will try to have things fixed by tomorrow. Sorry!

[Bookitty]

okay so lets try some set up spec here cos I want to leave a decent trail.

This game has a semi-open element to it. It works as follows:

a) One role from each pool will be randomly chosen. If there are multiples of a role, each pool will be rerolled.
b) Exactly three pools will roll a town role and exactly one will roll a mafia role.
c)

This is not the extent of the set-up. There will be roles that are not explicitly stated here.

[N] -> Usable at Night.
[D] -> Usable at Day.
[A] -> Usable Action.
[P] -> Passive Action.

---

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

1) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker
2) Miller
3) 2-shot Fruit Vendor
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Spoiler: Ability PMs

Town:

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- You have no special characteristics.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. They will be protected against a single kill. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn who that player visited, if anyone. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn what type of actions targeted that player, if any. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, they will be informed that they were given fruit. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- If an investigative role that returns a form of "Guilty" or "Not Guilty" targets you, you will return the guilty result. You will not be informed if this occurs.

Mafia:

[N][A]

*Character Specific*

- Each night, you may visit a player. At the end of the night, you will learn the role of that player. You may only use this ability twice throughout the game. You will not be informed if this occurs.

[N][P]

*Character Specific*

- Every attempt to target you with a kill action will fail. You will not be informed if this occurs.

what are pple's thoughts on that the 3 town and 1 scum will be from each of the 4 pools? cos that is how I interpret it to mean, does anybody else?

claimed, flipped roles:

flipped 2 neighbours, metal and wni

confirmed: 3rd neighbour, ika
claimed: vt, us

ika are you soft-claiming a neighbour/fruit vendor? cos that is what it looks like you are soft-claiming. which does not make sense to me but you are better at set-up spec than I, cld you help me out here? tere?

anybody else?

I am going to keep reposting this until some1 notices and decides to i dunno, do set up spec with 2 flipped roles and 2 claims I mean colour me silly but this might actually prove to be beneficial.

tere how exactly is your lynch pool wide? I mean the only scumread you have is plum. every1 else you have given some indication is town at some point except your recent change on hydraflower.

I am so done with this game.

cho and I need to be sorted TODAY. not tomorrow, not the next day, TODAY, period end of story.

also ika don't ignore me I asked you if you are a fruit vendor yes or no. if no then why were you asking if any1 got fruit.

VOTE: cho

Responding to this: Is it worth having people claim if they are a fruit vendor or a miller?

Miller should have claimed before imo, anyway, so that's not a big deal. Fruit vendor would also narrow down choices.

I'm thinking about this; I don't think anyone ought to claim, though. It's worth noting there's no Vig in any of those setups (doesn't mean there isn't one, just saying it's not an enumerated role).

Still thinking on it, though.

[Bookitty]

I'm thinking about this; I don't think anyone ought to claim, though.

This should be I don't think anyone ELSE ought to claim. My brain is not worth having at the moment.

[Plum]

Sorry, meant to get to posting earlier before Shabbat, so I'll be quick:

ZZZX, my vote on you had nothing to do with lurking and everything to do with the wagon analysis speculation outlined by Grib shortly before my vote. In fact at the time I must not have been paying much attention, because I thought I was like the third vote on your wagon, not the fourth (I seem to have not remembered Frogmollie was already there). I admit I also thought at that stage it had pressure value, and that if another vote on you brought you forward more it was probably for the better.

Thinking more about the rest.

[ika]

okay so lets try some set up spec here cos I want to leave a decent trail.

what are pple's thoughts on that the 3 town and 1 scum will be from each of the 4 pools? cos that is how I interpret it to mean, does anybody else?

claimed, flipped roles:

flipped 2 neighbours, metal and wni

confirmed: 3rd neighbour, ika
claimed: vt, us

ika are you soft-claiming a neighbour/fruit vendor? cos that is what it looks like you are soft-claiming. which does not make sense to me but you are better at set-up spec than I, cld you help me out here? tere?

anybody else?

im neighbor, i am not a frut vendor though.

I am going to keep reposting this until some1 notices and decides to i dunno, do set up spec with 2 flipped roles and 2 claims I mean colour me silly but this might actually prove to be beneficial.

tere how exactly is your lynch pool wide? I mean the only scumread you have is plum. every1 else you have given some indication is town at some point except your recent change on hydraflower.

I am so done with this game.

cho and I need to be sorted TODAY. not tomorrow, not the next day, TODAY, period end of story.

also ika don't ignore me I asked you if you are a fruit vendor yes or no. if no then why were you asking if any1 got fruit.

VOTE: cho

Its simple, out of the 2 pools that have fruit vendor (3 and 4) there is miller and VT. Ignoring the tracker and scum roles. I would of expected miller to claim out of the gate. also with no fruit being claimed i would eliminate the possiblity of it being in the game so now we have this:

Pool 1:
1) 2-shot Tracker
2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:
1) 2-shot Doctor
3) 2-shot Voyeur
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:
2) 2-shot Doctor
3) Vanilla Townie
4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:
1) 2-shot Tracker
4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

so pool 4 is now in the 2-shot tracker or 2 shot rolecop and i want to figure out if we have BP or rolecop.

cus really, with a BP being possible it entirly means a vig exists. the quesiton in hand is if its sk or not. this is why its delmmea for me. if we had a tacker claim (BTW DO NOT FUCKING CLAIM TRACKER IF YOU ARE EXISTING), it narrows what i need

[dragonspawn]

Will not be on as much the next two days. May have a post or two but I'm working till Monday.

[Cho]

Checking in on mobile before sleep but lmao ok wow didn't even know that was a thing until now.

So apparently since it's confirmed if there's a bulletproof scum that it's unlimited, that pretty much should have made my slot conftown from the start. There's a near 0% chance that Ank or any other setup designer/reviewer would allow for the chance of a Mafia (full) Bulletproof existing alongside a pre-determined SK. Doing that pretty much puts one of the Mafia on the same or higher level of power as any SK, which would severely limit the SK's chances of winning even more than the SK role inherently has/remove its ability to win over scum in an endgame situation. Even if you want to argue there was some sort of Strongman SK (which I couldn't be anyway because Yukari's kill didn't go through), that doesn't make sense because then there's no point to a Mafia BP.

In other words, I both can't be groupscum because {mafia claiming vig unprompted day 1 is lol no fucking way | a scum-motivated kill went through last night while I was roleblocked since again lol no fucking way someone would both doctor mollie last night and allow this shitfest to go on without validating the vig claim}, and can't be an SK role because the [any kind of SK + possible Mafia BP] combination would make it nearly impossible for SK to win compared to Mafia.

I'm already anticipating some VI comments from someone like dragonspawn about how Mafia BP + ??? SK is still completely plausible so I'll just say here that no, it's not, and it'd be horrible setup design that Ankamius, DeathRowKitty, GuyInFreezer, and sthar8 would never torture any SK with. Instead the only logical role that justifies the existence of a Mafia (full) Bulletproof is a Town (full) Vigilante.

God. That was more than expected. I am on such a high right now, I seriously thought I would just get mislynched. But yeah anyway get fucked scum, I'm alive and pretty much setup conftown now, so feel free to keep wasting your roleblock on me and let the other PRs hunt you down.

Good night.

[dragonspawn]

We don't even know if there is a bp and you're trying to claim your confirmed town???

Why am I vi for asking that?