Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 2.10

ZZZX (3)

- Hydrangea, Plum, Grib

[L-3]

Cho (2)

- dragonspawn, Frogging Mollie

Plum (2)

- Tere, ZZZX

Bookitty (1)

- Cho

dragonspawn (1)

- ika
Bellaphant -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Tere -


Not Voting (2): Bellaphant, Bookitty

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-06-13 19:30:19), or June 13th, 6:30PM CST (GMT-6).

Hydrangea is V/LA until June 9th.

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[Plum]

I'm sorry, I know my recent content has been lacking. I'm going to try to focus and lay out what I can as best I can, without reducing it to commentary about how the gamestate sucks.

@Plum I dont want to be rude but the last time I saw someone use vote pattern analysis he fucked up the whole shit. And since you are voting me because of it you seem to have done the same thing. Also I dont get how you are doing it without any flipped scum. So literally you are using a cheap excuse. Otherwise show your "analysis" and show how it makes me scum. May you? (+ scum points for bullshitty reason)

Like.

All of the scum probably aren't on the MS bandwagon. MS and WKI are townfirmed. elusive is strong town, I'm super town. That leaves Plum and ZZZX ripe for the lynching.

This was something I agreed with. One of the things I keep an eye on are players off a Town lynch, and those on a scum lynch. Especially a Day 1 mislynch, especially one surrounded by controversy and whatever, some scum is probably avoiding actually being on it. I feel like it's a rare game where scum will super commit to a Day 1 mislynch to the point of all pushing it. And yes, the same argument can be applied to me from your perspective or anyone besides me, sure, I get it. I am aware. But from my perspective, this fact alone was enough to make you worth pursuing. Pressuring. Whatever. But I didn't feel The Most Confident about it and I don't feel like I need to justify my vote on such a basis as that. But I don't know. I'm trying to reread, even though everything is about as clear as mud and there are like three or four players all at the same low level of utility and readability over the whole game (like Hydrangea, Bellaphant, dragon unless I can motivate myself to reread Singer any time soon???). You were quite firm on Metal being Town from early on. And it seems like overall the Day 1 Bookitty wagon was highly Town driven, so your vote being there when the Day ended may be

good

, in fact, hell if I know. Maybe I don't know a damn thing anymore. Just call me Jon Snow.

plz do not tell me that you think a 13 player set up wld have a scum bp and a scum roleblocker cos I don't even

But if there were no Vig in the end, it's fine, actually. Some of the possible roles Town can roll are nominally negative or null utility (Miller unless you want to argue Named Townie, which is relevant, VT).

The only reason I would see for scum to block Town-Yukari supposed to shoot at Town-Mollie is not trusting Yukari to do much to make sense and not shoot one of them (???) and/or thinking one or both can be easily dispatched via the Mist. Multiple people have already complained about hating the gamestate.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bookitty

[Cho]

The scum rbing Yukari/me instead of letting the mollie kill happen is also getting to me. I was about to say maybe mollie is actually the mafia bp and trying to lynch me as in "why would mafia bp push hard to lynch the vig" just because I don't like the plot hole there, but it's not just negligible which is disappointing.

I'm going to reread Yukari's D1. Mollie I'm yelling at you if I find something that would obviously make scum unsure if they were shooting you.

Also Yukari claimed Vig unprompted. It should be pretty fucking obvious we're not groupscum.

Also just thought of this: if the Mollie vig went through, we'd be proven very likely town (or at least leashed sk if mafia wasn't thinking of the bp thing), and mafia would have to waste both the rb and nk on me next night. Letting mollie not die just lets town lynch the vig instead of having to kill it.

But then of course scumplay is almost never optimal. So it could just be that scum instinctively chose to roleblock the pr claim. Or the "maybe Yukari won't shoot mollie" thing. If it's that I think there'd be actual scum in Yukari's other scumreads. Will check.

[ZZZX]

This was something I agreed with. One of the things I keep an eye on are players off a Town lynch, and those on a scum lynch. Especially a Day 1 mislynch, especially one surrounded by controversy and whatever, some scum is probably avoiding actually being on it. I feel like it's a rare game where scum will super commit to a Day 1 mislynch to the point of all pushing it. And yes, the same argument can be applied to me from your perspective or anyone besides me, sure, I get it. I am aware. But from my perspective, this fact alone was enough to make you worth pursuing. Pressuring. Whatever. But I didn't feel The Most Confident about it and I don't feel like I need to justify my vote on such a basis as that. But I don't know. I'm trying to reread, even though everything is about as clear as mud and there are like three or four players all at the same low level of utility and readability over the whole game (like Hydrangea, Bellaphant, dragon unless I can motivate myself to reread Singer any time soon???). You were quite firm on Metal being Town from early on. And it seems like overall the Day 1 Bookitty wagon was highly Town driven, so your vote being there when the Day ended may be good, in fact, hell if I know. Maybe I don't know a damn thing anymore. Just call me Jon Snow.

Al..right

also can you translate what grib wrote into "simple english"

he says that scum are not in metal wagon, Bookitty's wagon is driven by town (mainly me WNI(i think) and metal) yet I am scum for not being on metal wagon? I dont ge thte logic

[Plum]

Like.

All of the scum probably aren't on the MS bandwagon. MS and WKI are townfirmed. elusive is strong town, I'm super town. That leaves Plum and ZZZX ripe for the lynching.

To go over this one more time, what Grib was suggesting is the following:

Not all the scum are likely to be found on the MS wagon by the end of Day 1. Probably at least one scum stayed off the MS wagon.

The players not on the MS wagon at the end of Day 1 are: WNI, MS, Elusive, Grib, Plum, ZZZX.

WNI and MS are flipped Town.

Elusive and Grib are probably Town (YMMV I guess???).

Plum and ZZZX deserve scrutiny as (YMMV) the plausible candidates for 'the scum who wasn't on the MS wagon at the end of Day 1'.

-

I personally thought this line of thinking had merit. I still think it does, and am attempting to weigh it with other factors.

[Frogging Mollie]

plum I can accept that newbs will not understand the importance of resolving the yukari/cho vs us issue but i am having a really hard time accepting the reluctance from you cos you know what happens if this is not resolved.

it shld be between cho and us and really no other lynch is optimal at this point so why are you being useless with your vote.

[Hydrangea]

@cho, I am curious as to why you think yukari claiming unprompted makes your alignment so obvious? You keep pushing this comftown angle, but there is nothing conftown about your slot imo. Yukari's unprompted claim was so unnecessary at that stage and I am still struggling to understand their motivation.

[Frogging Mollie]

I don't see why on Day 2 we need to lynch the vig ASAP. Even if you think I'm scum (which claiming vig of all fakeclaims out of nowhere D1 would be dumb af to do, no matter how low of an opinion you have of Yukari).

If we think you are scum, we should lynch you.

And yes, it's a dumb fakeclaim, but Yukari has made a ton of newb mistakes. And if town? Then it was dumb af to realclaim vig there too:
- Under no pressure
- claim a town PR and out yourself
- state who you were going to shoot upon a Metal lynch (us, a claimed VT)
- then claim you were roleblocked (why would scum RB a vig shooting another townie?)

Does not compute.

Either way it was dumb af, but probably even more dumb as town because if Chokari (ooh, I like that name) really is town (they aren't), then a townsperson dies today for sure.

(frog...still catching up)

[Frogging Mollie]

Seriously, which seems like more of a D2 threat? Scum-Mollie or scum-MS?

Because our vig is not foolproof

.

It's like they knew their vig would be unsuccessful...........

[Tere]

I'm not listening to any tunnelling or any attempts to 1 v 1 the cho / mollie slots today.

You guys should come vote Plumscum with me, or give a proper reason why you won't.

[Tere]

@cho, I am curious as to why you think yukari claiming unprompted makes your alignment so obvious? You keep pushing this comftown angle, but there is nothing conftown about your slot imo. Yukari's unprompted claim was so unnecessary at that stage and I am still struggling to understand their motivation.

Oh hi, do you have anything else apart from that, like reads and reasons and anything, rather than lurking around being useless?

[Tere]

I don't see why on Day 2 we need to lynch the vig ASAP. Even if you think I'm scum (which claiming vig of all fakeclaims out of nowhere D1 would be dumb af to do, no matter how low of an opinion you have of Yukari).

If we think you are scum, we should lynch you.

And yes, it's a dumb fakeclaim, but Yukari has made a ton of newb mistakes. And if town? Then it was dumb af to realclaim vig there too:
- Under no pressure
- claim a town PR and out yourself
- state who you were going to shoot upon a Metal lynch (us, a claimed VT)
- then claim you were roleblocked (why would scum RB a vig shooting another townie?)

Does not compute.

Either way it was dumb af, but probably even more dumb as town because if Chokari (ooh, I like that name) really is town (they aren't), then a townsperson dies today for sure.

(frog...still catching up)

Frogger, you are forgetting he was deliberately trying to throw his game to get killed early to get back to Matrix 6 because newbie arrrrgh. The vigclaim was crumbed right from the word go, you just need to translate out of newbie.

[Tere]

reading back now but can you mention it again? I am pretty sure I cant remeber you saying anything true/making sense about it.

Look, I assume you are taking a pot shot, 'coz you just quoted why I'm scum-reading you. I get what you are saying about 'it's not non content', but there's not a huge amount to town-read there. If you ARE town, then please stop stuff like this and try to engage with people, so we can rule you out of the scum-pool: Tere called you lynchbait. Boo wants you to be more 'helpful'. You had a wagon on you that can't really be all scum, so maybe accept, if you are town, that you need to make this clearer.

Z, if you are town what is the best way to engage you because I'd like for that to happen rather than for you to be lynchbait?

In the meantime:

VOTE: Plum

because I am still not feeling anything in her ISO is coming from a genuine town standpoint.

People who are townreading her, I'd love to know why, because I am not sharing that viewpoint at all.

I will tell you who else was starting to WTF at her yesterday though - the dead townie....

*snipped wni's quote*

Ms had a pretty consistent scum-reading of her too.

Ugh, Tere, please be town, 'coz this is a much better version of what I've been trying to say, and I'd love to know the answer to your question.

Hi Bella!


This is a reach out! Can we talk? Where is your head at re the gamestate right now?

[Frogging Mollie]

Also Yukari claimed Vig unprompted. It should be pretty fucking obvious we're not groupscum.

If it was obvious, we wouldn't be going through all this.

Also just thought of this: if the Mollie vig went through, we'd be proven very likely town (or at least leashed sk if mafia wasn't thinking of the bp thing) and mafia would have to waste both the rb and nk on me next night. Letting mollie not die just lets town lynch the vig instead of having to kill it.

So what your saying is scum

wanted

to roleblock a townie killing a townie? OK.....

I mean, I guess scum would prefer 8v3 today instead of 7v3 today (sarcasm) just so they could

hope for

a lynch of the vig. Totally optimal. Even with a presumed roleblock, there's no guarantee you were going to be today's lynch, so why would scum bank their night phase action on a non-certainty?

In my opinion, scum would WANT a townie to vig a townie to get to 7v3 on D2, hope for another mislynch of town D2 to potentially get to 6v3 going into N2, and have another night phase N3 to potentially get to 5v3. Seems more optimal than letting it stay at 8v3.

Also, in your scenario, why would they waste a RB and NK on you if the possibility of a Doc still existed? You as a likely conftown vig in your scenario would be a likely candidate for protection. If they RB you, they have no need to NK you at that moment because your power is neutralized, especially knowing you could be protected. Also, in your scenario with you as conftown, then if the scum RB happened to be lynched D2, then scum is SOL in your scenario, because now they don't have a RB.

lologic

Just poor poor logic.

[Frogging Mollie]

Frogger, you are forgetting he was deliberately trying to throw his game to get killed early to get back to Matrix 6 because newbie arrrrgh. The vigclaim was crumbed right from the word go, you just need to translate out of newbie.

If actually the vig, and actually trying to throw their game, they would be going against their win-con, which is a no-no. They also said they'd never go against their win-con.

[Tere]

Anything is possible, because newbie. The whole ISO reeked newblogic. Still have a townread on the slot, not voting there.

[Frogging Mollie]

10-4 Tere, I get what you're saying. I just. It makes no sense, and Yukari is such a straightforward player as town. Sure they could be trying to manipulate their meta, but they've still played like such a newb I think they were more panic mode as scum than being crafty as town.

But anyway, I need to read up on ZZZX, Plum, and a few others.

But either us or Cho should be lynched today. I agree with Mollie on that.

[Tere]

See, I think Yukari is straightforward too. I don't think there was any crafty as town in that ISO. It reeked pissed off town trying to deal with a special role with additional responsibility to me. They were reading ISOs, they were trying to sort, plus they were trying to be an obvtarget to go back to matrix 6. I can't see that behaviour as coming from a SK either.

You should come and vote obv groupscum and quit this vanity 1 to 1 thing you want to have. I won't be playing for sure.

[Tere]

Plus your whole argument is that this slot isn't the vig, why do we have to sort this groupscum slot in preference to any other? It just makes no sense apart from Mollie doesn't want to play any more. And if that's how she feels she should either let you handle it solo or you guys should replace out, because this is all game detrimental at the moment and I am confident scum are sitting around toasting marshmallows again.

Do a thought experiment with me, Frogger - who apart from Cho is scum here? There's at least two and possibly 3 more out there (if there is a SK but I follow Cho's logic on why there wouldn't be). Who are they?

[Tere]

Current head:

Not lynching ever:

Tere
Ika
Grib
Frogging Mollie (but please stop being a PITA <3)

Not lynching today:

ZZthing
Cho
Bella - I have just seen a really towny reach out from her that I can't discuss because reasons. I want time to sort her.


Bookitty - she was looking good around Day end, hasn't felt as good today somehow. I need to reread, in the meantime she's being voted by my main scumread so she's above the line for now since that looks like a lazyvote by Plum
Dragon - I need to think hard about this slot - I had bad feels about it before the weekend but on catch up it felt more like genuine town trying to figure stuff out. Close to line though.

________________________________________________ level of acceptable towniness

Hydrangea - this is my only compromise vote as I think it's also groupscum




Plumscum.

[Frogging Mollie]

Tere. I will gladly participate in your thought experiment. In fact, I stated before you even asked me that I'd be reviewing ZZZX and Plum and a few others.

I should review Dragon's participation too. That was singer's slot, and both Mollie and I separately and quickly both townread her. But now we have more game information as well, plus she replaced out. I need to really try to understand dragon here D2, but they haven't done anything that has pinged me on a rather casual observation of that slot since replacement.

[Frogging Mollie]

BTW, Mollie and I are super solid on Grib being very town.

[Tere]

BTW, Mollie and I are super solid on Grib being very town.

Good, because I can't explain why because reasons but Grib's reach out at 1288 was one of the towniest things I have ever seen in a mafia game and if he faked that as scum GG, quite frankly.

[Tere]

You should still come vote Plum with me though!

[Bookitty]

Plum is clearly very likeable and it kinda bugs me that peeps seem to be townreading her from that.

This really bothered me because it might be true of me

@Plum: Do you feel very engaged in this game? Do you think you're getting a good idea of the ebb and flow and general gamestate now that some of the shrieking hostility has died down?

What's your read on ZZZX, please?