Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Fro99er]

i won't lynch dragon today. Maybe later if things change and we get more info. As I said, Mollie and I separately came to town reads of singer, and we both know singer super well. DS hasn't improved the slot, but he hasn't hurt it much, if any, in my mind.

I understand where you're coming from, but ZZZX and Plum are even more 1v1 than Plum/Boo. But I'm pretty confident ZZZX is town here. Trust Cho on this one too. That's even more reason for me to want to lynch Plum.

Grib, I think you can see (from your perspective) it's either ZZZX or Plum, no?

[Fro99er]

I don't want to speculate on scumteams until we get a flip though. Sorting some of these 1v1s out will start to clear things up a lot.

[Plum]

Sometimes I *feel* too bleeping scripted. As either alignment. Whatever. If the game comes to a point where I can't stop the internal voices second guessing what I'm typing at every turn or I can just keyboard mash incoherently, it had better be the first, I guess.

You have yet to sort either of us into the scum or town pile. Just some 'gun to your head' stuff. You use the prase 'whatever your alignment is' about both myself and Chokari slot. That's not sorting.

Do people not recognize 'pretty Town, enough that I don't want to lynch' as a legit category anymore? Like maybe it's just me being ancient, but I feel for myself, despite every frustration about the gamestate, that 3 players I really feel are definitely Town to a really strong degree is actually better than average Day 2 in this size game without a scum flip or other claimed info. My readslist can be basically broken down like this:
{Grib, ika, Tere} - super Town, like the strongest rating
{Frogger, Cho, ZZZX} - probably Town, not currently interested in pursuing as a lynch
{dragonspawn, Bellaphant, Hydrangea} - scummish and/or lurky and/or little to work with and/or nothing Town-seeming to work with. Would definitely consider pursuing Today (though as I said, Hydrangea takes top spot here
(Bookitty} - most likely to be scum

I've sorted you and Cho to the extent that I know I want to lynch neither of you today as things stand. If that doesn't work for you, we're at some sort of impasse.

Oh my god. By "Meh" I meant to indicate "yeah, I'm not sure it's alignment indicative, but given where my vote is and the way things are, making that point isn't really new or impressive or helpful, so why don't you &c.?' In fact I never argued that WNI or Frogmollie was scum on basis of *how* the argument was being handled (though I questioned why WNI hadn't pursued a Frogmollie vote or anything given his clear stance and read there). So Bellaphant's comment to me seemed barely relevant. Or, you might say, "meh".

I mean, Bella was agreeing about WNI and Mollie not seeing eye to eye, and trying to engage you on that and make conversation about it about alignment. And you just brushed her off.

Also, why did you never vote metal. You kept sayinig how scummy he was at end of D1, but you never voted him at end of D1.

If she's saying 'I don't think X is alignment-related' (which she did in the "similar reading of the situation to WNI a while ago") and I'm inclined to agree (and for that matter haven't said otherwise or indicated that I think it

is

alignment-related), what's there to talk about? Like seriously that's a good reason to redirect the conversation to something else that maybe is liable to tell us something alignment-indicative. Including for Bellaphant herself.

As for MS, he got hammered by Yukari before I moved my vote back. I saw no reason to hurry up moving my vote back specifically to hammer him before the point that Yukari actually hammered.

Frogger, why are you getting on Tere's case for having shades of doubt about her scumread on me? For heavens' sake, it's not like she's even moved her vote or made much more than a token musing about Hydrangea as a compromise-type lynch.

Dragon - I was somewhat skeptical of the timing of Bookitty's readslist because Tere, who has been on my case, had recently demanded a readslist of me/seemed to suggest it was scummy that I hadn't given such a thing and/or an equivalent; I thought Bookitty might have made one to avoid Tere being in a position to question why Bookitty had not put forth such a thing. I was incorrect about there being no prompt. It was a mistake, and I apologized. And I did use a snippy tone and I'm sorry on that account, too.

I would like Plum to line out her case on me. So far I have that my wagon was almost entirely town (which seems true) and that I conveniently gave a reads list unprompted (which isn't true). Could you explain more about your read on me, please, Plum?

I apologized for the latter. Twice now. And I touched on this in my own recent readslist, but I'll lay out a more extended edition.

The first one you mention is a big one, I have to admit.

The

big one, perhaps. But I'll do my best to outline the rest.

I do think the beginning of Bookitty's game is a little weird/off/not much going on there. Like the most novel, interesting, and concrete thing she does is suggest that as MS and Elusive are attacking Mollie on different counts and both have also noted some sort of scumread on Bookitty herself thereafter, they may be scumbuddies doing a weird two-pronged attack on Frogmollie. Intensely weird and speculative. Really scumhunting? Uh, maybe?

When Bookitty's back from V/LA, she has a weird post that accomplishes two things besides a few throwaway lines:

1) a few paragraphs of summation on the MS situation, ending with "1. He claimed Ori. I don't want to lynch Ori. 2. His AtE actually seems genuine to me, and 3. His interactions are NOT what I would expect from scum". I'm somewhat skeptical of the couple of paragraphs it took to lay out 'well, MS lied . . . but we don't know why he lied . . . there are tactical reasons to fake a replace out'. It feels like Bookitty wants to make sure no one wonders whether she registered what she's framing as the main argument involved is before she effectively dismisses MS as scum.

2) After all this, her biggest scumread is Yukari for . . . asking for prods on people like her and myself, who were still V/LA, and 'not liking his postings all the way through'. After all that, 700+ pages, that's the one scumread we see, like, at all. And that's the basis.

And most of the rest of Day 1 is light on content. Bookitty continues pursing Yukari in a tepid sort of way, spends plenty of time arguing that this is definitely Town-Mollie, votes MS mostly to avert a potential Mollie wagon.

And Day 2, even after saying the following:

One thing I'm really not liking is the "If so-and-so flips town I'm coming after _____." It's like a threat without a purpose, because OBVIOUSLY when someone flips town we always look at the wagon on that person. I think you're town, for instance, Mollie, and if they manage to lynch you and you flip that way, I could make similar threats. Same with me: if I'm lynched, then the people pushing that are going to look worse too.

But the fact is that scum usually AREN'T the ones initiating wagons on town. They'll push it, sure, but they don't start it in my experience (rarely, I wouldn't say never). So acting like that's alignment indicative is somewhat suspicious to me all on its own.

Bookitty votes Frogmollie right off the bat:

I had really thought that MS would flip scum. The fact that Mollie hasn't weighed in yet is bothering me a lot.

VOTE: Frogging Mollie

@Ika: What do you think Mollie could say at this point? Either she's town who staked everything on a bad read on MS or she's scum. I don't know which, but I will say that this game has tied together people's alignments (MS-Mollie, Yukari-Mollie, even me and you and Mollie) more than any game I've seen lately. I don't know what Mollie could say, which is maybe why she hasn't said anything.

It's amazing to see. If Bookitty thought MS was reasonably Town/a reasonably mediocre lynch but Mollie was superTown/an even worse lynch, why the surprise, and why suggest that there's nothing Mollie could really say at this point? Bookitty never before suggested that MS and Mollie's alignments were closely tied and her behavior to this point wouldn't suggest that, either.

Bookitty recants this vote later and frames it as relating to thinking the thread had been open for a longer time with Mollie refraining from posting, which being more incriminating. But I'm not sure. Maybe Bookitty did think it had been longer than it had - we can treat that as arbitrarily true. But it doesn't fit well with the way she words her stance on Mollie and how it relates to how she treated MS and MS vs. Mollie Day 1. Not at all.

Maybe I'll dissect things like Bookitty Day 2 a little more tomorrow. Need to go to bed now, though.

Notes: It *is* weird as either alignment that Bookitty suggests that she'd rather be lynched than MS due to the claim. I don't really know what to think of that.

[Cho]

ZZZX, Frogger, ika are all on my never-lynch list. Tere is maybe-never-lynch.

I want a Grib read but my head isn't easily coming to a conclusion on that one.

I don't think I'll be able to read Plum, most likely due to differences in mafia generation/thought process, but I might give it a go on a less busy day.

[Cho]

Oh and I'm still liking my Bookitty vote. There's just something that feels off about her ISO compared to what I remember of her in other games. We all like to think of Boo as a super awesome nice person (which she is of course) but when she's town I almost always get the feeling that she's actually trying to solve the game and is a tiny bit confused about things. But here it just feels like niceness and overexplanation or something like that, it's hard to put into words.

I don't feel like she's actually trying to solve things beyond stuff like an easy offhand "Marquis is nice but Cho is mean!" meta comment and the like.

[Fro99er]

Frogger, why are you getting on Tere's case for having shades of doubt about her scumread on me? For heavens' sake, it's not like she's even moved her vote or made much more than a token musing about Hydrangea as a compromise-type lynch.

Three reasons:

1. what went down with her/mollie, I'm a bit annoyed at Tere. I should brush it off and play the game, but I ENJOY playing this silly game with Mollie.
2. Her insistence on you being confscum, then backing off it. It's frustrating to be like "I NEVER DO THIS CONFSCUM THING UNLESS I MEAN IT" ... then back off it.
3. I prod and push and poke at things. That's just me. Annoying at times? Yes. Can't really change myself.

[Tere]

ZZZX, Frogger, ika are all on my never-lynch list. Tere is maybe-never-lynch.

I want a Grib read but my head isn't easily coming to a conclusion on that one.

I don't think I'll be able to read Plum, most likely due to differences in mafia generation/thought process, but I might give it a go on a less busy day.

Cho, can you explain why Z is on your never lynch list?

[Tere]

I am reconsidering Plum because I feel I have an awful lot more to go on now in where her head is at. I also didn't like Boo's 1226.

I am OK with sorting between them.

VOTE: unvote for the moment.

[Fro99er]

I had a big reply written up last night then the great internetz crash of the Fro99ger and LadyFro99er household of 2015 happened.

Basically to sum it up. I liked Plum's defense to my push. That didn't feel scripted. I also like their push on Boo. I had a bunch more stuff to add, mostly revolving around boo saying "I hate when so and so says if X flips town I'm hunting Y", then MS flips scum so she votes me/Mollie. Then she slowly moves us back in the town pool, then 1620 WHAMMO...FROGGING MOLLIE IS TOP TOWN READ!!! Also a general lack of scumhunting, some admitted useless/helplessness (then pushing ZZZX for the same).

I'm ok sorting Boo and Plum as I have already mentioned. And ZZZX. There's a weird three way thing going on there (get your minds out of the gutter)!

Also, the last line was <3 @boo - this is all game related, and you're pretty damn cool from what I've played with, so nothing personal

VOTE: Bookitty

[Bookitty]

I'm okay with it. Like I said, it's been difficult for me to get into the right headspace for this game since the violent arguments of Day One and I primarily joined this game to play with Miss Mollie, who is gone, so it's no big

I will go on record as saying that I have never been involved in a three-way with Plum and ZZZX and I repudiate these suggestions. Also, I never heard such filth back on the farm.

[Cho]

ZZZX, Frogger, ika are all on my never-lynch list. Tere is maybe-never-lynch.

I want a Grib read but my head isn't easily coming to a conclusion on that one.

I don't think I'll be able to read Plum, most likely due to differences in mafia generation/thought process, but I might give it a go on a less busy day.

Cho, can you explain why Z is on your never lynch list?

Because he's town. It's a never-failed meta thing.

[Cho]

I probably shouldn't throw strong descriptions like that around though if I want to stay right about it.

Retract the "never-failed"; I still very, very strongly think he's town, but I'll reread his early ISO to make sure.

[ika]

1) talk to me about boo, please?
2) who would you lynch today?
3) This kind of links to the RB/BP thing: a strong scum team like that, I'd expect a bunch of PRs. Some peeps were soft-claiming everywhere day1, iirc, but I'm not sure.
4) k, why? Share your thoughts on this?
5) Cool, I'm town, and I'm happy with my play this day phase.
6) I literally just made a reads list. Feel free to comment on it. Frogger is town, and I'm happy town-read chokari, based on yukari's newb-flailing
7) I'm serious. tere says you are engaged as town + im not feelin it

1) ehh nvm, her last post makes me disregard my town read
2) cho/plume/dragon
3) thats what setup sepc is about, but on the otherside it can lead to inadver softclaims
4) sharing potential people and what their claims are, are not advised... I havent been following that hard to see peoples claims but with the current pool of claims and what i have gathered i rather not give ideas to scum on who to nk.
5) k
6) i neeed to iso then.
7) ya cus im disengaged atm and have a lot of shit. espcialy after how day 1 went i really lack a motivation that normally shows. im kinda in that state of not caring about showing my town play and just bleh

[Grib]

Yeah, sure, we can lynch Boo.

Too lazy to look up the votal.

[Grib]

Also, Cho should target one of ZZZX/Plum so we can wrap up that little which is which situation quick and easy.

If the Roleblocker wants to be a little bitch and interfere, whatever, bridges to be crossed.

[Tere]

I need to go re iso but I am heading in that direction. More critical thought tomorrow, I had an amazing day out bonding with my Mum and I don't want to harsh that mellow right now!

[Tere]

1) talk to me about boo, please?
2) who would you lynch today?
3) This kind of links to the RB/BP thing: a strong scum team like that, I'd expect a bunch of PRs. Some peeps were soft-claiming everywhere day1, iirc, but I'm not sure.
4) k, why? Share your thoughts on this?
5) Cool, I'm town, and I'm happy with my play this day phase.
6) I literally just made a reads list. Feel free to comment on it. Frogger is town, and I'm happy town-read chokari, based on yukari's newb-flailing
7) I'm serious. tere says you are engaged as town + im not feelin it

1) ehh nvm, her last post makes me disregard my town read
2) cho/plume/dragon
3) thats what setup sepc is about, but on the otherside it can lead to inadver softclaims
4) sharing potential people and what their claims are, are not advised... I havent been following that hard to see peoples claims but with the current pool of claims and what i have gathered i rather not give ideas to scum on who to nk.
5) k
6) i neeed to iso then.
7) ya cus im disengaged atm and have a lot of shit. espcialy after how day 1 went i really lack a motivation that normally shows. im kinda in that state of not caring about showing my town play and just bleh

please keep talking to each other <3

[Grib]

You keep that mellow unharshed, Tere.

[Tere]

Pfft. I'm a pussycat.


Now where is Ank's shifty eyed smilie!

[Ankamius]

[Tere]

<3

[dragonspawn]

Been thinking about it. It's obvious I'm not getting a Cho lynch today. I can deal with that. And if that's the case i will go for my second choice.

VOTE: boo

I have liked some of her more recent posts but she is still a scum read. I hope we are right here.

Also I have no clue where that puts the wagon other than I know its not a hammer.

[Cho]

I just realized I should still be conftown even if the "mafia wouldn't fakeclaim vig day 1" argument isn't 100%, because the possibility of a Mafia Bulletproof still mandates that a Vig exist.

[Cho]

And with no other N1 kill or counterclaim I'm pretty much clear.

[Ankamius]

hi friends