Team Mafia 2015 Winners: Young and Beautiful

[fferyllt]

I'm fine with releasing it. I'm a little sad that Reck's nixed sharing theirs.

[SleepyKrew]

Ours is mostly us bitching.

[fferyllt]

ours is pretty sparse.

[T-Bone]

Ours is 100 pages long...or will be when I finish spam posting it.

[Titus]

Fine with releasing ours...Tone yours might be longer.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm fine with releasing it. I'm a little sad that Reck's nixed sharing theirs.

yeah I did too

it got pretty acerbic

[zoraster]

just to reiterate: I won't do anything unless I am told by a team member BY PM. It helps when you link me to the thread in question too btw (I see every PT on the site, so sometimes going through it takes me a long time).

[T-Bone]

We all say bad things in the privacy of our PTs....as long as it's not about me UT I'll forgive you if you share it.

[Psyche]

think i'll nix my thread for the hell of it

[xRECKONERx]

Pretty sure this was gimmick infringement upon a certain God with three-pointed protruderances protruding from it's pantolones region.

i dont understand the reference here

[xRECKONERx]

yeah not releasing mine

i think it becomes bannable if it goes public, so

[Ankamius]

Zeus is my only idea. I'm lost too otherwise.

[fferyllt]

just to reiterate: I won't do anything unless I am told by a team member BY PM. It helps when you link me to the thread in question too btw (I see every PT on the site, so sometimes going through it takes me a long time).

you can share the Gestalt PT.

[Glork]

5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.

[ChannelDelibird]

The Goo is happy to release our PT. Most of it is unattractively formatted Skype logs but there are bonus pictures of our IRL consultations if you stick through it.

[Oversoul]

yeah not releasing mine

i think it becomes bannable if it goes public, so

damn

[Oversoul]

5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.

This was a big gripe against The Captains when we won it in 2012.
What metric would you rather have?

[ChannelDelibird]

Perhaps the surveys could be tweaked so that, post-game, players rank each other on how strongly they contributed to their alignment's cause, with votes for oneself being disallowed. Then add some weight to that if their alignment won.

[notscience]

I have an issue with the way you design this complex, difficult to orchestrate priveledge because thanks to my team not winning all 4 games I find the team that did not good enough to warrant the victory.

Please, take my opinion into account automatically and strip them of their victory and give it to someone else.

[Alchemist21]

Are the rest of the game threads going to be unlocked too?

[zoraster]

5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.

If there is something "fundamentally wrong" with it, then there is something fundamentally wrong with Team Mafia as a whole. Either we operate under the (perhaps fictional) idea that skill influences wins or we don't. But I'm not having a winner of Team Mafia as a whole be a team that won fewer games than another team. It would be unfair, it would defeat the purpose of Team Mafia, etc. It's one thing to use subjective measures as a tie-breaker. It's another to act as if wins and losses don't matter -- they do.

Ultimately I don't know how much simpler or fairer it can be than this: If you win more mafia games than other teams, you win Team Mafia. Any other standard is unacceptable.

[Marquis]

Perhaps the surveys could be tweaked so that, post-game, players rank each other on how strongly they contributed to their alignment's cause, with votes for oneself being disallowed. Then add some weight to that if their alignment won.

Did you mean:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=61996

[Zachrulez]

5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.

If there is something "fundamentally wrong" with it, then there is something fundamentally wrong with Team Mafia as a whole. Either we operate under the (perhaps fictional) idea that skill influences wins or we don't. But I'm not having a winner of Team Mafia as a whole be a team that won fewer games than another team. It would be unfair, it would defeat the purpose of Team Mafia, etc. It's one thing to use subjective measures as a tie-breaker. It's another to act as if wins and losses don't matter -- they do.

Ultimately I don't know how much simpler or fairer it can be than this: If you win more mafia games than other teams, you win Team Mafia. Any other standard is unacceptable.

Trying to make the victor of team mafia be determined by something else more primarily than anything other than wins is putting too much value in wins anyway.

People obsess a lot over the outcome of a game, but sometimes things just happen that are out of your control. If those things cause you to lose a mafia game, why should the standard change for team mafia to determine a winner through a subjective evaluation of skill?

[singersigner]

Mina, Zar, and Regfan are winners in my heart.

[Zachrulez]

Hopefully if there's another one of these and I play again, my team will fare better than 0-4.