We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Plotinus]

thanks. that means a lot to me. i had been thinking all this time that i would have been here even if instead of bulletproof i had some useless (but nightkillable) role like fruit vendor, as some combination of mislynch bait and “here’s someone won’t guess right.” I wish I had been something else, like a fruit vendor, or literally anything but bulletproof, though. it makes it so much harder to get information out of asking myself why i’m here in LYLO. would they have nightkilled me for my reads if they could have? i don’t know.

[BRantz]

Yeah, Plot, we have all been here in this spot and made the wrong decision before. The only way to get better is to play, and you are doing an admirable job of that (even if you are the last scum, but I am not nearly as sure as I was yesterday). I am getting a lot from your responses to my points for instance, so while I haven't posted specific questions I am still learning a lot about where you are at.

The only possible argument I see for BC being scum is also valid for me being scum, in that with how many killing roles there were in this game scum having some sort of kill immunity makes some sense. But the way BC has played makes me think they aren't the last scum. So I am also conflicted now.

I have a very hard time seeing Plot as scum because of all the work he has put in to try and figure out this end game, but BC has been solidly town to me the entire game long.

[Plotinus]

I myself am just plum tired after being in this game for 280+ pages straight, more than half of it by myself, and I just don't feel like going through your re-read to respond to everything directed at our slot. I was figuring it was you, Plotinus, but Bulb has been arguing that it's BRantz, and both ways make sense to me (well, Bulb thinks it makes zero sense for you to be scum, but that's him).

This isn't the time for one of us to make a vote without some kind of consensus, so beyond trying to ask us direct questions we're probably going to be dark in-thread until we can agree to vote one of you. As far as vote preferences go, though:

Bulb wants to lynch BRantz.
Mastin (IIRC) wants to lynch Plot.
I'm stuck between the two.

it’s okay. you don’t have to reread those walls if you’re not up for it, most of it was just paranoia I think. i don’t think rehashing that stuff will make a huge difference anymore. do what you need to do and take your time. we’ve got about 6 days left i think so there’s no hurry. i’m sorry if yesterDay i made you feel even a fraction of what i’ve felt this Day. i’ll be here if you need anything from me, and if you don’t then that’s okay too.


I’ve reached a place where this being my only ongoing game is not doing my mental health any favours but maybe joining some others will help so i’ve done that.


@Brantz: thanks, it’s appreciated.

The only possible argument I see for BC being scum is also valid for me being scum, in that with how many killing roles there were in this game scum having some sort of kill immunity makes some sense. But the way BC has played makes me think they aren't the last scum. So I am also conflicted now.

I think that is true of all 3 of us; we each have some sort of kill immunity. i’m bulletproof to berlin (and volcano if molla was lying but i don’t think he was), you have your pseudocide thing, and BC needed to be targetted by multiple teams at once.

[Cuttlefish]

Vote Count 11.01

Not Voting (3)

: Plotinus, Bulbasaur Commonwealth, BRantz

With 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-06-17 14:03:38).

[Cuttlefish]

Bulbasaur Commonwealth has been prodded.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

3 days? Feels like 2...

Bulb and Mastin are still hashing stuff out.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Mastin is somewhat firmly in the Plot-scum camp, while bulb is his opposite.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

*ahem*

HER opposite.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Butyeah, it basically breaks down like this.
Bulb says by setup spec that BRantz would be the last scum.
I say by play that Plotinus is far more likely to be scum.

So it boils down to an argument of Play vs. Role.
I admit I could be wrong here, even though I think I've made some fairly decent points to my partners.

[Cuttlefish]

BRantz has been prodded.

[Plotinus]

Do you think you’re at a stalemate or do you think you’ll be able to make some headway at convincing each other before the deadline? I don’t want to push you into doing something before you’re ready but we’re not doing no lynch today.

It is interesting that it’s play vs role for you guys because it’s that way for me too: by play you are town, by role brantz is town. If Bulba has setup spec that explains how Brantz nuked someone from orbit while pseudocided then I want to hear it because it will make my own decision all that much simpler.

Ivy’s interaction with me the other day when I was crying didn’t feel like someone who was worried about losing a mislynch target. Brantz’s did. The difference between 7192 and 7201, the first one could have been either alignment but the second felt like backpedaling. But it’s not impossible that it was just town realising I was serious. :/

But before I vote, I need an explanation for the day 8 nuke from orbit with brantz pseudocided early day 7 gone all of night 8 and back day 8 morning. (if the explanation posits a daykill then i need an explanation for the day 7 nuke from orbit). Because if Brantz literally couldn’t have nuked someone from orbit when a nuke from orbit happened and if he didn’t have any buddies alive at the time (the only choices are leopard or volcano) then I can’t vote him because it’s not him.

[Plotinus]

(sitewide notice that i’m not feeling all that well today (mild food poisoning) and so i hope i won’t be needed here today, though i’m also ready for this ot be over because we’ve been in LYLO for a month almost (on the 19th) and i fought hard against town apathy but despondency has won in the end. anyway if you need me i’m still here.)

also, i think Brantz siteflaked.

[Cuttlefish]

BRantz is being replaced.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Mods:

Deadline's suspended until a replacement is found, correct?

After one's found, we'll get an extension, right?

How long?

[BRantz]

Nah, I'm here, weekends are just hard for me. No need for a replacement.

[BRantz]

I can confirm that I have nuked no one from orbit. But I don't think that actually helps you very much right now Plot.

[Plotinus]

oh good, welcome back.

yeah, I need Bulba to explain how you nuked from orbit while effectively dead. that’s why i haven’t voted you. even though they’re still my strongest townread.

[Plotinus]

Bulbazak, if this weren’t LYLO, I’d be pressure voting you over this. This is the only piece of information I need from your slot right now. It doesn’t have to be a paragraph. You can paraphrase the setup spec case you made from mastin and Ivy because a case for “plotinus is town because setup spec says brantz nuked from orbit” is also a case for “bulbasaur commonwealth is town because setup spec says brantz nuked from orbit.”

Deadline is approaching. We’re not doing no lynch. I’m voting at some point tomorrow. Who I vote for still depends on the plausibility of Bulbazak’s answer to this question.

[Plotinus]

(eh, i think it’s still yesterday where you guys are. “at some point tomorrow” means a little more than 24 hours from now)

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Yeesh, one day left? I'm more burnt out than I thought.

Anyways, current theory is that nuked is a day action, and Brantz was around long enough to actually submit a kill yesterday. Hell, he could've submitted the kill in the same PM he asked to be removed. Buuut...if you really, really believe that, then why didn't you just vote me anyways? Yes, it's LyLo, and yes, we could come up with a answer that completely solves your little conundrum, but if our theory is false and BRantz didn't/couldn't nuke, then no matter what we try to say BRantz is conftown and you should've voted us the moment you realized that. You did back it up relatively quickly ("relatively" in that it was the post right after it and no one posted between then, not necessarily within an hour or two) by the whole LyLo argument, but still.

There's also something Venus pointed out a couple days ago. Multiple times yesterday prior to BB's flip (and around his lynching), you posited multiple times the premise that BB's death would NOT end the day (first in post 7082, and in the same post try to also follow the "game'll be over line". There's also this line:

I remember that brantz gets more active later and i can ignore bbmolla as soon as i know how he flips and so the next 80 pages are going to be easier.

Sounds very much like you expect the game to continue, at a time when

NOBODY

should be thinking the game would continue and that BB was the last scum. You have backpedaled on both of these instances by including statements that state the opposite stance, but it really doesn't sound like you believe those afterthoughts to Venus, and I'm leaning the same way. And since Bulb has come around, too...

Vote: Plotinus

If Brantz is up, I'm expecting him to lay a vote down before I leave work today if he's scum (or if he's town, really, cuz we're only a day away). If nothing else the outcome of today's lynch will show what analysis would have been more accurate between play and setup spec, at least for this game.

[Plotinus]

VOTE: Brantz

one last chance to win this form town, Bulbasaur Commonwealth before he gets on and quick hammers me. I’m town, for the last time.

[Plotinus]

The reason I was expecting the day to continue was because I was townreading BBmolla. I thought we were policy lynching him not “we all think he’s scum” lynching him. I was wrong.

[Plotinus]

My own theory for why it could have been Brantz maybe was in one of those roles from an old Nikanor game where there was a player that could remove other players from the game, putting them in an “alternate universe” where they were immune to night actions (except by other players in the alternate universe), but the player with the power could act on people in either universe. It was like the pseudocider role in a lot of ways except it wasn’t self removal it was other removal.

[Plotinus]

(I also don’t see how 7082 was backpedaling. At that time, I thought there was one scum left. At the time, I thought it was you. I thought that if you were the last scum then hammering the other person was the right thing to do because you need to survive to win. I thought that if you were town then hammering the other person was the right thing to do because you would know you were town 100% and the other wagon could be scum so worth a shot.)

[Plotinus]

7088 was a hope for the best prepare for the worst thing. but i’m burned out too. i don’t want to argue anymore. everything i have written has been my true beliefs.