We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

...Hmm. Strange way to vote...

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[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

My own theory for why it could have been Brantz maybe was in one of those roles from an old Nikanor game where there was a player that could remove other players from the game, putting them in an “alternate universe” where they were immune to night actions (except by other players in the alternate universe), but the player with the power could act on people in either universe. It was like the pseudocider role in a lot of ways except it wasn’t self removal it was other removal.

Yet mention of this "alternate universe" were never given by either head. Even if you're just positing this as a possibility, at most this AU exists as the place where BRantz goes to explain it, not as a part of the game itself. If it was the latter, such a thing would've been mentioned by either of them.

(I also don’t see how 7082 was backpedaling. At that time, I thought there was one scum left. At the time, I thought it was you. I thought that if you were the last scum then hammering the other person was the right thing to do because you need to survive to win. I thought that if you were town then hammering the other person was the right thing to do because you would know you were town 100% and the other wagon could be scum so worth a shot.)

Maybe so, if you're town. If you're scum, though, it does speak volumes as to what you really think about the gamestate.

I will admit that perhaps Venus is not taking into account that you believed us to be scum instead of BB, but if she is...

[Cuttlefish]

If BRantz has not posted by the deadline, he will be force-replaced and the deadline will be extended.

[Plotinus]

oh thank goodness I picked right. You’re conftown now, yay.

In NikPik V there was a weird mafia extended twilight jailkeeper thing which at first made me suspicious but it’s not all that close of a match on a closer inspection. But basically, using the terminology we’re used to in this game, in twilight they could sort of cause someone else to pseudocide and they couldn’t post in the game thread but could still vote normally, but actions taken on them or against them wouldn’t resolve. The Blue faction in this game had an inactive mafia kill: they couldn’t use their factional kill except as a tie breaker, kind of like Tropical Volcano in this game. There was also a Town Reflex Modified Absorber who seems reminiscent of Bulbasaur Commonwealth’s ability if not exactly the same.

(I mentioned a few other roles inthat post but this is the one I was referring to). I doubt Nikanor reused the exact role but the idea of a person being able to pseudocide but still be able to affect the game state sort of fit with that, I thought. Your idea about day kill that can be submitted by PM also makes sense (though no kill was submitted day 1, maybe they couldn’t?)

[Plotinus]

we don’t have evidence for an alternate universe, all we know is that brantz leaves and then comes back. mastin mentioned a dramonic role (which she said was a scum role) that also did something like pseudocide, and i also found a Tarhalindur role that did something similar-not-identical. I basically expect that whatever brantz’s role is, it matches some of the similar roles i found in old nikanor games.

I think we don’t need an actual alternate universe for this case, it’s more the “could affect other players while pseudocided” aspect I was zeroing in on.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

I've halfway considered that it's a really delayed daykill, where it takes place a whole cycle after it's used (ie. submitted day 1, nothing N2, goes through at the end of D2). It's just as likely that the ability simply wouldn't work on D1.

I think we don’t need an actual alternate universe for this case, it’s more the “could affect other players while pseudocided” aspect I was zeroing in on.

In that he could submit a kill while psuedocided?

[Plotinus]

I've halfway considered that it's a really delayed daykill, where it takes place a whole cycle after it's used (ie. submitted day 1, nothing N2, goes through at the end of D2). It's just as likely that the ability simply wouldn't work on D1.

That makes sense and fits with what we know.

I think we don’t need an actual alternate universe for this case, it’s more the “could affect other players while pseudocided” aspect I was zeroing in on.

In that he could submit a kill while psuedocided?

Yeah. But submitting the kill at the same time as he submits his “i’m pseudociding” PM would also work. it’s a nuke from orbit, flavourwise once you launch a nuke you don’t have to be around to babysit it; it’ll keep going along its trajectory.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Gonna share a bit of the mindset we (and by we, I mostly but not entirely mean me) are having.

Basically, Plotinus regardless of alignment has earned a Rising Star nomination: the amount of effort put into winning the game, their alignment regardless, is insane by itself. Then, by not crossvoting us after we voted them, and begging/pleading for a BRantz vote, Plotinus if town saved the game from a loss or if scum managed to pull an incredibly-ballsy move that could have easily backfired.

No, we haven't yet come to a consensus on what to do yet. We're still mulling it over.

[Plotinus]

Thank you. That means a lot to me.

[Cuttlefish]

BRantz is being replaced. Deadline is extended indefinitely while I search for a replacement.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see, unless you want us to quickvote that slot, Plot.

Gonna share a bit of the mindset we (and by we, I mostly but not entirely mean me) are having.

Basically, Plotinus regardless of alignment has earned a Rising Star nomination: the amount of effort put into winning the game, their alignment regardless, is insane by itself. Then, by not crossvoting us after we voted them, and begging/pleading for a BRantz vote, Plotinus if town saved the game from a loss or if scum managed to pull an incredibly-ballsy move that could have easily backfired.

No, we haven't yet come to a consensus on what to do yet. We're still mulling it over.

Hey, I think the same way, Venus!

I think, if anything, that play at least saved you from us voting you again. I can see that kind of ballsy play from more experience scum, but as far as I can tell you're still new. And while it's not necessarily beyond your ability, just looking at your play and what you've said about yourself tells me that you aren't in the right kind of place yet to make that call and be able to follow through, or that it's just not who you are, town or scum.

As I mentioned, we could just hammer BRantz and be done with it, but I feel like his replacement deserves the chance to say his/her piece, even if I feel for their monumental task (at least they aren't replacing into SMITE...*shudders*)

-Ivy

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

(Psst...I realize that game has been going on for literally over six months--January 16th to now--and that it's older than almost any other game, and longer than any game ever, but in spite of that, it's still ongoing so technically we shouldn't be talking about it.)

[Plotinus]

I feel sorry for whoever replaces in: LYLO, 290 pages, L-1 with intent to hammer, scumslot. And it may take a while to find a replacement; even back at 209 pages when I replaced in, it took a week for cuttlefish to find a replacement for my slot (7 April to 14 April).

We’ve been in LYLO since forever. I’m ready for this to be over if you are, but I don’t mind waiting for the replacement.



I am still pretty new, yeah. This will be my 5th completed onsite game. I’ve learned a lot since I first replaced in, and I’ve enjoyed playing with everyone and I feel like I learned a lot, even though it got pretty stressful towards the end. I’d like to play with most of the players here again (including some of the ones who died before I replaced in.)

I had a burst of confidence around the middle of day 10 because I’d done well in newbie 1603 but that feels like a long time ago now, though I’ve been feeling a bit better lately (especially after you were kind to me that day).

If you’re curious, pistachi0n in post 355 here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6882330 is the only person on this site who has seen my scumgame (and she saw it from the inside; we were scum together) and she talks some in the 2nd to last paragraph about why she was willing to believe what I was saying even though I had only just replaced in and was suspiciously hard defending BBT (whose alignment I also didn’t know but the case against him was terrible).

I don’t know if scumMe would have thought to vote this way or not, but either something about disliking toying with people would have got in the way, or I wouldn’t have been able to hit the right tone while doing it (I’m not a sore loser so the emotion behind the words would have been different and I don’t know that I could have hidden it).

[Cuttlefish]

Not_Mafia replaces BRantz. Thank you!

The deadline will fall in (expired on 2015-06-23 00:07:54).

[Not_Mafia]

I'll be free in about 8-10 hours, can you both give me a summary of the game and which parts need to read to get up to speed, I'm willing to read a fair amount, but I'm obviously not gonna read 290 pages

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Plot has a rather excellent live-blog of sorts of this thread in his ISO. I suggest you read that for an abridged version of sorts and can make up your mind based on that.

[Plotinus]

Liveblog starts on page 277 (or around post 150 in my ISO). I didn’t have enough ongoing games and nobody was talking so I reread the entire thing and then people still weren’t talking so I solved the “not enough ongoing games” problem the conventional way.

BBmolla

was buddying me for a while which influenced some of the liveblog in a bad way, but if you ignore the confbias, then the summary of events part is still accurate enough.

You should know:
we’re in LYLO and have been for a long time (over a month),
you’re at L-1,

Bulbasaur Commonwealth (mastin, voidedmafia, bulbazak)

are conftown because they haven’t quickhammered you,
I’m town bulletproof (immune to mafia),
your kill flavour is nuke from orbit,
and that we’re all grateful for you subbing in to such a difficult position.

This game started as 2 vanillaless 13 player games that were designed separately by nikanor and dramonic and then mashed together with obvious breakage accounted for but balance not checked for (though making it to 3p LYLO suggests it was balanced enough after all I think). One of the 13 player games seems to have been a twist on jungle mafia but the scum from that game (and probably all of the town) are dead already.

About the earlier posts in my ISO, you should know that I subbed in right after completing my first newbie game, which was quite possibly a mistake though I no longer regret it.

[Not_Mafia]

If the Bulbasaur hydra hasn't hammered I'd rather not rely solely on scum for commentary of the game, I'm sure mastin of all people can write one up.

Nonetheless I'll start reading up on Plotinus

[Not_Mafia]

Do we know if final scum is Wolf or the Dark Red mafia?

[Plotinus]

probably dark red. kill flavour makes more sense. also the wolves seem to be from the jungle mafia game (2 wolves, 3 volcano mafia who, according to bbmolla, didn’t have a factional kill).

best guesses for kill flavour:
purple - devour
blue - eviscerate
green - shot through the heart (dayvig), lynch
orange - none
red - nuke from orbit, incinerate (which seems to have been limited use)

Am still not scum.

[Not_Mafia]

Have you both claimed?

[Plotinus]

yeah, almost everyone had claimed by the time i replaced in on day 3.

I’m town bulletproof, immune to mafia (red, since bbmolla said orange doesn't have a kill).
bulbasaur commonwealth are town reflex jailkeeper. if targetted by 1 person, they jailkeep them. if targetted by 2, they doctor them both.
you’re a 3 shot pseudocider (all shots used up).

[Not_Mafia]

If you think I'm scum why would you tell me my claim?

[Plotinus]

because you can find the answer easily be ISOing yourself, because we already have it confirmed what your actions do, because I recently read a Marquis game (completed) where he refused to play along with someone who reaction tested him like that and I could see his point. I was reaction tested that way when I first subbed in, and it didn’t really change people’s reads on my slot: those who already thought I was scum just figured I could have circumvented it.

Also, nobody else seems to have lied about their claims: all of the people who flipped scum seem to have had the power role they were pretending was a town powerrole while they were alive.

And since I’m 100% sure that you’re scum, I wouldn’t benefit from reaction testing you at all. Nothing you can say will change my read on Bulbasaur Commonwealth, so I don’t see why I should bother to pretend.

[Plotinus]

just remembered oranje crush. lol. they lied about the amnesiac part of their claim but were telling the truth about the commuter part. but as far as brantz’s claim goes even if he was lying about how many shots he had, it would be beyond broken if it worked in LYLO. the broader point that there aren’t any unverified pieces of brantz’s claim still stands.