Mini 1663: Rick and Morty Mafia (Game Over)

[Titus]

No. It does not RBD. A vanillaizer modifies a player and thus would go before Jingle.

[Elbirn]

...so either aristophanes is lying about vanillaizing jingle, or the vote stealer is someone else?

[Aristophanes]

My goodness, I feel like all this has already been addressed multiple times this phase.

But whatever, arguing with RBD is like bashing your head against a brick wall.
They keep bringing up the same things as if fact, even though there are multiple possibilities (brought up by various people) that could also resolve things.

I know I addressed how the bus worked and there was onoy one kill.
Titus/Maniez also never announced nor hinted at their jail target, so spec on purposeful switchedls in order to prevent a death if scum are dumb.
I also believe Jingle resolved before me.

Kthnx & RBD are scum guys. I'm sure of it! Can we just do this already?
Bickering like this is getting us absolutely nowhere.

[Titus]

...so either aristophanes is lying about vanillaizing jingle, or the vote stealer is someone else?

Yes. Jingle claimed vanillaized so if Ari is lying, so is Jingle. For that theory to work, lufan kill must be "stopped" which means lufan or RBD must be the last scum.

[Elbirn]

Okay, cool.

And I hate to keep rehashing everything when I'm sure it's all already been discussed and I'm sorry, but I'm really confused and need this dumbed down.

Why does lufan kill being blocked mean that he or rbd is scum?

[lufan131]

@MOD: V/LA until the 25th

[Titus]

If lufan tried to shoot RBD, he should be dead. The only way that does not happen is if lufan never shot RBD, d3x swapped with RBD and thus kthx lying, or RBD was swapped with KJ who is safe bc she is in jail.

If d3x swapped with RBD, then kthx is lying about his result and thus scum.

Kthx scum does not explain Heartless/Flames/d3x all town.

[Titus]

Mental vla

My good friend just got sent to the hospital. I play mafia as a distraction but if I seem distracted please deal with it.

X-post all games.

[Elbirn]

Alright, but none of that leads to rbd scum. It leads to kthx or lufan scum. It also doesn't account for scum redirector.

(Sorry to hear about your friend, hope all is well)

[Rainbowdash]

If lufan tried to shoot RBD, he should be dead. The only way that does not happen is if lufan never shot RBD, d3x swapped with RBD and thus kthx lying, or RBD was swapped with KJ who is safe bc she is in jail.

That third thing would result in KJ being dead though. So we know that didn't happen.

From your standpoint saying you are town there are only three ways that KJ is alive today

1) lufan is scum
2) I am scum and used a bus drive to lufan (which is basically wasting a free second kill)
3) kthnx is scum

Which is it?

No. It does not RBD. A vanillaizer modifies a player and thus would go before Jingle.

From what was linked:

An example of two actions that interfere without affecting each other:
Player 1 vanilliaises Player 3;
Player 2 gives an invention to Player 3.

In this case, the order of applying the actions affects whether player 3 loses just the abilities they had at the start of the night, or whether they lose the invention as well.

Again, there is no conflict if the players pick different targets; for instance, if player 1 targets player 2, then the gift of the invention has absolutely no effect on the vanillaising, so the vanillaising (which would prevent the invention being given with some variants of Vanillaiser) happens first.

That last part is critical if you replace "Invent" with "Nullify vote". Replace with names in this game and it becomes. It says that how it resolves is up to the mod.

which would prevent the invention being given with

some variants

of Vanillaiser

It ends with a "up to mod". It is filly possible that Jingle nullified the vote and then was turned vanilla. (note I actually did misspell fully there, but it would have been foalish of me to ruin a good pun)

@Jingle - If there was a vote stealer who could it be? Especially since you also need a driver as well?

Cant be Aristo
Cant be me (I am VT and even if not would have been RBed or lufan/Titus are scum)
Cant be kthxn (he isn't lying about role, just alignment)
Cant be Elbrin (he is confirmed town)
Cant be Titus (unless you are calling lufan scum with Titus)
That leaves... KJ and lufan as required to both be scum?

kthnx is a beyond excellent lynch today. It actually catches Titus if Titus is scum and KJ is town. If KJ is scum it might just turn it into an easy 1v1. If KJ is town, it proves Titus town to him.

So yeah, its not "confirmed one of Aristo/Jingle" because its a mod decision on how the roles are resolved.

[Titus]

RBD, you don't place invent with nullify vote though. Jingle's vote steal wasn't an invention given to him but an ability they had at the start of the night.

[killerjester]

Seriously. It's time to NL.

No one's even fucking scumhunting it's all PR bullshit I'm honestly bored out of my goddamn mind.

[Aristophanes]

Seriously. It's time to NL.

No one's even fucking scumhunting it's all PR bullshit I'm honestly bored out of my goddamn mind.

^ This.

Since it appears nobody's vote is moving.
Would still be alright with Kthnx atm though, if anyone was interested in that...
As I say, can't be town, unless there are two scum on the wagon already, because he'd be dead already.
KJ, wanna vote with us?
Elbrin? Titus? Lufan?
Anyone??

No?
*Sigh*

I guess we'll just have to wait out this day and a half for nothing to happen.

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, you don't place invent with nullify vote though. Jingle's vote steal wasn't an invention given to him but an ability they had at the start of the night.

I would consider things like "Invent Object" on the same priority level of things like "Remove Vote". Its absolutely a modifier that is given to him for the night more or less. Its an action that doesn't fit commonly into other category types, so would resolve all at the same time.

No one's even fucking scumhunting it's all PR bullshit I'm honestly bored out of my goddamn mind.

If you vote kthnx that makes four unique players having voted him today. That one can easily happen here. He is scum based off his past actions, and the setup breakdown only makes it more strong of a case. Its not like I can really add anything new since he hasn't done anything all day today.

@Titus - So is it lufan, KJ or kthnx scum? One of those is absolutely required given role resolution there from your perspective.

[Titus]

No. You are the bus driver.
Ari did not vanillaize.
Jingle is vote thief.

That theory works with the facts. It is possible that theory is wrong. Ari is scum to me under either theory.

[Aristophanes]

No. You are the bus driver.
Ari did not vanillaize.
Jingle is vote thief.

That theory works with the facts. It is possible that theory is wrong. Ari is scum to me under either theory.

So, knowing both are wrong, there is no way I can sway you back to your senses?
(Not that I haven't tried...)

[Titus]

Stop trying to sell me a bill of goods and put forth your own full answer.

[Elbirn]

No. You are the bus driver.
Ari did not vanillaize.
Jingle is vote thief.

That theory works with the facts. It is possible that theory is wrong. Ari is scum to me under either theory.

I just don't see a world where the entire scum team outed themselves with a stupid vanillaizer gambit. Like, if ari flips anything but town vanilliaizer, and it's gg.

I've made it pretty clear I'll take a kthx or an ari lunch today. We can't no lynch, if that happens were just putting ourselves in a shittier situation.

[Titus]

Wrong Elbrin, one less townie to corral. It's hard to get all to agree. Plus we have Lylo reads to go through. One of kthx or Ari must be scum based off this vote pattern.

[Rainbowdash]

No. You are the bus driver.
Ari did not vanillaize.
Jingle is vote thief.

That theory works with the facts. It is possible that theory is wrong. Ari is scum to me under either theory.

Where is the kill then?

Either I drove myself with KJ in which KJ dies (as lufan targets him and you target me) or I drive with any other player, and they die instead. It literally was a free second kill for scum. Are you suggesting that I intentionally drove the lufan kill back to the only player who would be 100% for sure protected due to their BP ability?

Lets just play it out as to what my options in that case would have been:

1) Let myself die
2) Bus Drive to you (who we are already killing, which would just kill me)
3) Bus Drive to lufan (kill guaranteed to not resolve)
4) Bus Drive to KJ/Elbrin/kthnx (they die unless you JK me)
5) Bus Drive to d3x (whoever he targets dies, this couldn't be true without kthnx-scum first)

We know its not 1, 2 and not 5. Option 3 is out since that removes a free second kill for scum.

So its #4. Yet there is one kill. The ONLY way there is one kill and I am a driver is if the kill went to the one player who was guaranteed to be unable to kill (lufan).

I have put my answer forward many times for what happened since I know I am town:

1) You are scum and targeted me or lufan in order to frame
2) lufan is scum so a second kill didn't exist
3) scum targeted me (kthnx is scum)

@KJ/Elbrin - Lets finish kthnx here. Its what makes the most sense and as I have said, if Titus is scum it either forces scum to kill KJ or catches her.

@Titus - Or both of them. That remains a possibility.

[Titus]

RBD, stop repeating yourself. KJ is in jail and thus protected or lucky scum swap.

You are right that both could be. You reluctance to vote Ari and the day 2 shenanigans leads me to you as scum.

[Elbirn]

VOTE: kthx

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, stop repeating yourself. KJ is in jail and thus protected or lucky scum swap.

From NAR

1. Copy
2. Hide

3. Bus

4. Block

5. Redirect
6. Protect
7. Miscellaneous

8. Kill

9. Recruit
10. Inspect

First the bus happens. KJ and I swap spots.
Second the block happens. You intend to target KJ but target me.
Third the kill happens. lufan intends to target me but targets KJ.
KJ is only being targeted by lufan
KJ dies

[Elbirn]

UNVOTE:

Wait hang on

If kthx is telling the truth
Then d3x is confirmed for swapping with titus.

If d3x swapped with titus
and lufan is telling the truth about his target
then rbd is only not dead due to scum interference.

If kthx is lying
Then d3x swapped with rbd, kthx lies to set up rbd, scum either no killed or targeted killer jester?

If lufan is lying
...why is he lying?

Zzzzzzz

[Rainbowdash]

If kthx is telling the truth
Then d3x is confirmed for swapping with titus.

Correct. kthnx as town would mean Titus is town or scum who returns a "Rick" result.

If d3x swapped with titus
and lufan is telling the truth about his target
then rbd is only not dead due to scum interference.

Correct, but where would the kill have gone? As above it means scum would have redirected the kill at lufan who would have been impossible to kill. Anything else results in two dead.

If kthx is lying
Then d3x swapped with rbd, kthx lies to set up rbd, scum either no killed or targeted killer jester?

Or targeted me, but again - Correct

If lufan is lying
...why is he lying?

He could be. Not like he could change his claim at this point either way.

I think this is what holds for you. One of the following is true as to what happened last night

1) lufan is scum (lufan is scum)
2) Titus blocked the lufan kill (Titus is scum)
3) RBD and lufan were bus driven (RBD is scum)
4) Mafia and lufan targeted RBD (kthnx is scum)

Granted its not only guaranteed one of those (like we could feasibly have a lufan/kthnx pair with 1 or 4 having happened) but at least one of those must be true to you.