We Didn't Playtest This | Game over, everyone loses

[Not_Mafia]

But telling someone their own claim isn't standard, nor what I asked, you had to go out of your way for it

[Plotinus]

We were also talking about Brantz’ ability some on page 290 so maybe I should have just said “scroll up”. I’ll remember next time this situation comes up. I’m still working on when to use my outloud voice. I tend to overshare. I told you what your kill flavour was earlier, too.

I’m mostly interested in this conversation because maybe someday I’ll be in the situation you’re in and I don’t know how I’d argue my way out of it. If you succeed, I’ll remember your words for later use.

We’re not going to convince each other that the other is scum, but I’m not afraid of you having the information neccessary to get into the game enough to try to convince BC to vote me after all.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Though, neither Bulb nor Venus have ready the entire game, nor been current with it. I (Ivy) have, hwoever, but I'm not keen on making a big write-up on thread goings-on when I really don't remember much in the way of details.

Bulb is still staunchly in plot-scum territory. He can't reconcile the fact that BRantz was psuedocided with the nukes on Day 7 and 8. I still want to bet on Plot-town, but...

-Ivy

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Not to mention that, from what I can tell of his view, allowing BRantz to psuedocide and daykill in the same day wouldn't be allowed in a non-bastard game. That's his view, mind, not mine.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Even so, I want to know where you stand for right now, NM. I can't promise clear answers (in that I'll have a complete response), but if you have any questions, just ask.

(I also can't guarantee that Bulb or Venus will be around to answer, either, but you can still ask).

[Not_Mafia]

Well I know Plot is scum, his running commentary is far too long for me to read, we don't even know which scumgroup he is or I'd look at interactions, is there anything specific you want my thoughts on?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: PLotinus

my slot isn't doing this apparently

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Well I know Plot is scum, his running commentary is far too long for me to read, we don't even know which scumgroup he is or I'd look at interactions, is there anything specific you want my thoughts on?

Why do you think he's scum? Or how do you know, but eh, same question, kinda.

Ignoring primarily LyLo-centric info such as not hammering an L-1 vote, 'course.

-Ivy

[Not_Mafia]

Well not hammering is why you're confirmed town, and by extension Plotinus is confirmed scum

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

...Like I said, ignoring such information.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Preferably.

[Not_Mafia]

That's like saying, how do you know you're town, ignoring your role pm? I don't understand what you're getting at

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

I was kinda just hoping that it wasn't just because Plot voted BRantz and I didn't join him, really.

[Not_Mafia]

ISOing Action Dan I don't really see any contribution or original thought, naked vote in RVS, awkward vote switching, and him excusing the faction-specific bulletproof as town because he was 'town' with a bulletproof ability is super sketch, especcially whilst acknowleding it's a role that can easily with an SK (which by extension fits with multiball, and certainly fits more on scum than some commuter variant)

He says this

Well ok. I guess.

Well I guess I can like defend myself while I'm here if there's a specific complaint besides inactivity?

Yeah I mean, it's kinda unfair in a way so ... I dunno. I'm just like here and kinda feel like posting.

and then proceeds to flake? request replacement? I'm unclear, when he was the leading wagon, and the whole things reads as scum apathetic to the game in general (and not based on not liking scum) feeling caught for the wrong reasons

I'm go in to Plotinus a bit later, but from what I did read he was very IIoA

[Plotinus]

I am reading this discussion but am unsure if my contributions would be welcome or not; I don’t want to get in the way of BC getting whatever they need out of NM, so this is a post to say that I have things to say but will say them later when NM is done making his case or when someone addresses me.

[Plotinus]

Not_Mafia replaces BRantz. Thank you!

The deadline will fall in (expired on 2015-06-23 00:07:54).

good morning, i want this on the current page.

[Plotinus]

Good evening, I am posting my case because we only have 10 hours until the deadline and I want people to have a chance to respond.

reading

7252 looked like a reading comprehension test to me because it contradicts information on the past couple pages. NM doesn’t react to this at all. A town aligned player would have read the last couple pages and tried to engage with them and would have caught that.

It takes him over a day and a half after subbing in to even notice that his slot isn’t voting mine. again, a town aligned player who subs into LYLO like this should be scanning the last couple pages and the last few vote counts to check for stuff like this.

There are other major events from the past 2-3 pages that he hasn’t noticed or commented on.

The above 3 paragraphs are why I waited a bit to post this, wanted to give him a chance to read if he was going to.

His promises of doing a lot of reading reminded me of BBmolla’s similar empty promises. An actual case only materialises after Ivy makes it clear that the ‘but my role pm’ defence isn’t cutting it, and it looks like he’s being facile and pretending not to understand that Ivy is asking for a reason not to just hammer him and be done with this bloody game.

ActionDan

The case against ActionDan is cherrypicked, which is understandable given the deadline but he quotes 5055 and misses out this one:

We're in the midst of lynching you as we speak. I speculated that you're the SK and we should leash you but a bunch of people disagree. They think you're just straight scum. Since you're here ... got anything to say?

If I was an SK in this game I would have continued to play because I love being SK and have had great success with it. I don't really want to post more because I feel like I'm in a moral grey zone

which is wifom, sure, but if NM’s going to consider my predecessor overextending himself and replacing out of a few games as alignment indicative then he should consider what ActionDan said that means for his alignment, and this post was adjacent to the one he quoted so it’s unlikely he missed it. Dan had 0 reason to care about what happened to his slot after he left it, but he said that anyway.

Also, the wagon sprang up against ActionDan after Dan had already gone missing, because of House’s theory that House had right after subbing in, that Dan wouldn’t have let go of Drixx and then kept coming back to it a few times, he would have either kept it up or dropped it but not both. House and others were satisfied with the ongoing mod communication explanation and I’ve since provided the contents of that discussion to back it up.

Also also, the size of the wagon against ActionDan at the time of his replace out is the sort of detail I’d expect to be missed on a cursory skim of ISOs, maybe he found it in the PT or something.

NM's case against me so far is IIoA which I don’t think is true because I did not setup spec to the exclusion of scumhunting. I did include some summaries of events in my liveblog but I primarily focused on living people and analysing their play.

If more of a case materialises I’ll respond to that too.

[Not_Mafia]

Meh, I subbed in primarily because I knew mods we're very unlikely to get anyone else, then to find out I don't even get to figure out who scum is, that scum was confirmed and we didn't even know theri alignment to look at associations, then coupled with your giant walls recapping the game I got lazy

[Plotinus]

ok, and I get that it’s hard to care too much about a game you’ve just subbed into and we appreciate it because it was unlikely we’d get someone else, but BC and I do care about it because underneath the town apathy we’re both feeling, we’ve sweated blood over this game. I know there are like 60,000 words in my ISO or something ridiculous like that and BC’s is about the same. We’ve tried our bests. This game is important to us even though we’re glad it’s almost over. At least that’s how I feel about it and I think Ivy feels something similar.

Even if you were town I wouldn’t have expected you to read all those words, BC and I are both wallposters so it’s understandable that you weren’t going to read the books we wrote in 3 days. But the last couple pages at least, you could have read that. The discussion after the recap. Or if you and BC had meta on each other that they could use to read you or something, that’s why I was trying to stay out of the way last night once I realised that I wasn’t the one who needed to talk to you, because I wasn’t the one you needed to convince.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

Wait, how does 7252 condradict anything?

[Plotinus]

Bulb says by setup spec that BRantz would be the last scum.

Mastin is somewhat firmly in the Plot-scum camp, while bulb is his opposite.

I was figuring it was you, Plotinus, but Bulb has been arguing that it's BRantz, and both ways make sense to me (well, Bulb thinks it makes zero sense for you to be scum, but that's him).

And since Bulb has come around, too...

For quite some time, Bulb had a setup spec reason for me to be town and Brantz to be scum. Eventually he came around to your point of view but I thought the original setup spec reason still remained. Then in 7252 you have it the other way around, that Bulb says I’m scum by setupspec. I was expecting that if NM had read the past few pages he would have asked what changed or latched onto that in some way.

[Plotinus]

I have no idea why the quotes failed to be in order with the multiquote thing.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

That was before Bulb came to the conclusion that Brantz being scum was incompatible with the two nuked kills D7 and 8. He also doesn't believe the kill is delayed more than a day, so while the D7 nuke could be explained by it happening N6 (and also explains why there wasn't one D1, since we had no N0), the one on D8 couldn't be done by Brantz if he was dead, and Narn died before then.

And if it's not a night submission then the only other explanation is a daykill, but as I said earlier Bulb doesn't believe that the daykill (even a delayed one) and the psuedocide would be used in the same day. I think it's still possible that they were used on separate PMs (Brantz could've submitted the kill as soon as the day started, or even earlier if cuttles accepted those), but I feel that if it was a daykill BRantz' kill would've different, from what I recall of that day. TPTG doesn't look like a kill that came from what Brantz read of the thread, but rather a pre-mediated kill based more on his role than his in-thread actions. And before you say that's wrong, consider that ChriVi, the longest-living confirmed town player at that point (I suppose we're the longest-lived conftown player now, but that kinda just started today so it doesn't count), didn't die until D8, and I'm almost positive that it was because they were a doctor, NOT because they were conftown. not to mention that there was no nuke D5, which was the day after we used BB's ability. That pretty much shoots down the daykill option, unless you want to suggest Dan simply forgot.

Furthermore, why did TPTG die D7, not D4? Why did Lucian die over them? To be fair, the doc aspects of TPTG and ChriVi's roles were not known until after Narn died, but ChriVi was known to be conftown as early as N3, and TPTG as early as N5, or D1 if you believed TF's mason claim when he was at L-1. D2 and D3's kills can be explained away as Dan's or Narn's (and the House kill was a good one regardless). But the main/only reasons conftown players should stay alive are because A.) they do not have actual scum as their suspects, thus the scum aren't feeling pressured; and/or B.) Other PRs are far more important than getting rid of conftown players. Why would Lucian, a one-shot Vengilante, die before either of those two, or TF for that matter? Did they believe that Lucian still had a shot? Or did they simply believe that TPTG, TF, Cerb, and ChriVi were all on the wrong track? I think it's the latter, with a smidge of inexperienced scum.

...Well, maybe that last paragraph was going nowhere, but I think my point, and the point of our heads, are kinda clear.

Vote: Plotinus

And remember: No matter how the end of the game goes, whether you won or lost, you played a damn good game, Plot.

[Bulbasaur Commonwealth]

(And on a purely personal note, I'm glad this is over.)

[Plotinus]

town loses