Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[vezokpiraka]

@cerberus: You do realise that if the mod put a godfather it was specifically for the weak cop. There is no way he missed the interaction.

[Cerberus v666]

@cerberus: You do realise that if the mod put a godfather it was specifically for the weak cop. There is no way he missed the interaction.

Yes, which is why I don't see how a godfather is possible, because of that interaction. I was giving the mod the benefit of the doubt in that they perhaps didn't think something through, rather than just doing something nonsensical.

Putting a weak modifier on a cop(when you could put a weak modifier on *anything* and have it function the same way in terms of finding scum) in a game with a godfather is unnecessarily messy and forces this uncertainty. It could be a weak fruit vendor, and it would have identical utility to this weak cop.

[mastin2]

Mastin was also certain Bins was scum even after she claimed a power role,

Point of clarity, I didn't see Bins's claim. If I

had

, I wouldn't have believed it, mind you, because the way she went about doing so was not how an inventor would go about it, and that's the only role that I would have believed her to be softclaiming. So you're not exactly wrong, but you're also not right.

Also, I wasn't certain Bins was scum. In fact, Bins was my compromise-wagon. I did a check of my iso yesterday to confirm as much, and, yep. I voted her because there was greater support for her lynch than there was for a Sonic Boom lynch, but Sonic Boom was my preference. So I wasn't sure she was scum. I thought she was scum, yes, but I wasn't

certain

she was; it was mainly stuff from her predecessor (that being, posting which looked like what I'd do as scum) and her own play being what I saw as not being town and eventually VERY dodgy. Which it was. She was being vague, she was being fairly elusive. A little bit near the beginning of the game is all good and fine; it makes for some excellent 'crumbing. A lot of it near the END OF THE DAY, not so much. Of course I scumread her; that's exactly what you're NOT supposed to do as a PR.

she was certain I was scum for reasons she never actually said except for quoting a couple posts made by others saying "That's a good point." or "I agree".

Also wrong on both points. I wasn't sure you were scum and was debating it. I thought at least one of {You, Sonic} was scum, but I wasn't absolutely sure, and of the two of you, Sonic was a much stronger read. I also did plenty of reasoning as to why; it's literally strewn across my iso in everything I said. At the beginning, said things were vague, with me only hinting at it. (E.g. "scum bussing" had a reason why I thought your post was bussing Sonic Boom, but it was more I thought you were scum and Sonic was scum rather than that the post itself was scum-bussing post, though I don't remember what it was which made me conclude that.) But they progressively got more and more detailed as I began messing around less and less, taking the game more seriously.

Sonic said, "I have a meta scum read on Marq." and Mastin responded by saying, "That's a good point, I didn't think of that."

Not exactly. Sonic provided a reason for Marquis to be scum, using a game I was a part of. The point, therefore, was valid in my eyes: "He posted like this when scum, and is doing it again". Thus, yeah, it was a good point (albeit wrong), which I hadn't thought of but which was true (albeit wrong) all the same.

I bring this up because Mastin's last post looks incredibly manipulative, and not even close to the whole story.

Pot, kettle, black.

You might be town but that doesn't mean you're not being manipulative.

[Wickedestjr]

Spoiler: Reads

In order of strength-

Strong town;
Mac
ZZZX
Tere
Cerberus
Shakira
Vezokpiraka

Leaning town;
Sonic Boom
Ankamius
Jaqen Hghar

Neutral;
mastin2
Kari

Scum;
ika
Lying Cat
Flubbernugget
hiplop

/done for today

[mastin2]

I'll just assume you don't have any reasons for now.

Oh, he has a BUNDLELOAD of reasons for me to be town.

Can you expand on that for me?

Yes he can (and so could I), no he won't (because no duh); the equation doesn't change. There's many reasons why I am town, and explaining the majority of them would be anti-town.

Yeah we're uninformed masons and i'm pretty sure she is too.

Sorry, but I'm pretty new at this so I don't know if this is a joke or not.

If you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't matter if there is a difference; the end result is the same. LC's town, and so am I. The how is irrelevant.

I think scum would be best copying Mastin if she's town.

And who, other than LC (in which it'd be impossible to say either of us are copying the other because we're both doing it to the other to the point where it's mutual synchronization), could that possibly be?

...My point exactly. Nobody's scum copying my reads. That means scum are defying my reads, ergo, I'm onto them. I might not have all of them. But I'm bound to have at least one or two. Especially the one.

If he's the scum designated mislynch, which members of that wagon are scum Mastin?

Sonic Boom, THE driving force behind the lynch. Nobody else cares to have hiplop dead more than they do.

Flubbernugget, the opportunistic wagon-hopper who is there because he can get away with it.

And Wicked, who did a good job of obfuscating himself yesterday, but his stances today have made it progressively more and more obvious that he is scum.

And that's just the people I've got a firm scumread on. Kari's not even a strong fourth; I could be wrong about her. It could be someone like vezok.

So damn right hiplop's the scum-designated mislynch.

Who else, other than Sonic Boom, has been wagoned today?

...My point exactly. There is nobody. No-one. Other than hiplop. No pressure elsewhere. No strong push. If hiplop were scum, you'd expect two or even three counterwagons to crop up. Nothing. The Sonic Boom push has been hard-pressed to get further than it has, in contrast to the hiplop wagon which continues to gain support. That's because nobody cares if hiplop dies, yet the scum are doing their damnedest to save Sonic Boom.

It was that way yesterday, too. Sonic Boom was the first major wagon of the game. The replacement wagons for Sonic Boom were Bins (which we know to be town) and hiplop (who I am certain is town). No other wagons formed. Yet there's a key difference. When the Sonic Boom wagon fell apart, several different wagons attempted to crop up...exactly as you would expect from a wagon on scum falling apart. The Bins wagon falling apart never produced a series of counterwagons, nor did the hiplop wagon ever fade. That's because they were both on town, scum didn't care to save them, and thus no strong wagons formed other than them.

[Shakira Confirmed]

I bring this up because Mastin's last post looks incredibly manipulative, and not even close to the whole story.

Pot, kettle, black.

You might be town but that doesn't mean you're not being manipulative.

I'll agree with this. I also intentionally left out a lot of the story too. But that was to force you to actually explain your point of view on your actions and to not keep doing the "Because reasons" response for everything.
Conftown tactics for the win!

[mastin2]

Can't say I remember Flubber doing much pushing though.

Pushing, no, but being obvscum, yes. Aside from his horribad posting, there's also the sheer, blatant, OPPORTUNISM present in his iso. After I'm caught up, I'll show you why. But basically, Flubber has been on essentially every single major wagon, right as it was gaining traction, and left, right after it has lost it. So in this case, it's the LACK of a push that's the problem. Everything from leaving Sonic Boom to voting Shakira (Shakira wagon had a fair amount of support, I think around four or five) to the absolutely horrendously bad Mac vote (Flubber was the fourth) and all that just in his early iso. Cerberus vote when there's a Cerberus wagon...it goes on and on. His "reasoning" isn't really reasoning at all. It's just excuses to go here, excuses to join there.

[mastin2]

The resistance to a hiplop wagon is unreal

What

resistance? Mine? LC's? That's about it. All I see is more and more people voting hiplop mindlessly, half effectively just because he wasn't lynched yesterday.

And Esp called.

He wants his Signs and Void almost-mislynch back.

That's right, I went there, hiplop is this game's Espeonage: someone who looks like scum, almost got lynched, continues to be under suspicion, but. isn't. actually. scum.

[mastin2]

I think wicked, kari, mastin and flubber are scummy with no correlation to the hiplop flip. .

So...you

agree

with me that 3/4 of the people I suspect look bad...and you have me as the fourth?



And it isn't at all alarming to you that half the people there are pushing hiplop? (With the third absent from the game but expressing interest in voting there too.)

[mastin2]

@Town- I feel like a lot of my posts have been ignored, I would appreciate if this one could be read carefully.

Wicked's frustration seems pretty solidly town, even still lacking context.

What frustration?

I don't see any from Wicked.

From Jaqen, sure, yeah, I see plenty, but from Wicked, I see none.

[mastin2]

(For that matter, I see an extreme LACK of frustration from both Titus AND Metal Sonic. If they were town I'd expect them to be

furious

at me, but instead, they're ignoring me, bashing me, saying I am weaker than I am, just to mitigate my presence, just so that my voice has less impact than it by all rights should.)

[mastin2]

What is your case for hiplop-town?

I don't need a case for hiplop being town. Frankly I don't really have one minus the circumstances around him. But he WILL be flipping town, so he WILL be a mislynch, and frankly if you decide that reading the game is a worthy endeavor, then you'd agree with me. Maybe you don't need to read. Maybe you just need to see how the pressure on hiplop keeps building the way it does. The point is, I don't need to tell you that hiplop's town. It's evident enough. What I DO need to tell you is to not impulsively VOTE him before you see this, because you

are

prone to it, and you

would

regret it down the line.

In short? Hiplop being town will come to you without me saying anything. You just need to not vote him before then, because if you do, then he'll end up dead. You've seen how little resistance the wagon has, you've seen how much it's growing. So you know I'm not lying when I say that your vote will push it over the edge. Which is why I'm begging you not to make it.

[Sonic Boom]

Mastina, why should I be frustrated when you are making yourself obviously scum. Everyone but those voting us like the plan. We will be copped and then conftown. You'll have to 180. I have plenty of things IRL to be pissed about. Your scuminess revealing itself is no reason to be pissed.

[mastin2]

read his ISO.

Feel free to! Because it is painfully,

painfully

obvious that hiplop entirely lacks a scum motivation in his posting. Yes they look, objectively, bad. Yes he looks scummy. But where's the intent? Where's the motivation? What is the driving force behind his posting?

There's literally nothing there that, even remotely, so much as hints at him being scum. Everything there is just town, albeit town that is playing in a not-exactly-stellar way.

[Sonic Boom]

Scum intent, avoid helping town by giving reads.

Lack of scum intent is shit reason to defend someone. It supposes we know all scum motivations. There is always a scum motivation to hinder town.

[mastin2]

vezokpiraka - Near global town read I think?

Has been dangerously close to falling below the null line for me basically the entire game.

Aristophanes - Mac didn't really do anything other than scum it up in the first few posts.

Town it up, actually.

Lying Cat - Lots of people are scum reading them, myself included.

And yet, they are town which I have been pushing since D1.

Flubbernugget - He went on the hiplop wagon pretty early yesterday too.

Not really. He went onto the wagon, but it wasn't exactly early; he did so

right

as it was beginning to gain movement.

I just know we

already have

with boom and flubber. I'd be fine with either of their heads, and thats why I'm lacking in things to say!

...Okay.
So I

suppose

there

is

one player that has sheeped my reads and in theory COULD be scum buddying me, and that player's hiplop.

But, well, y'know. He's the mislynch and I've been his strongest defender, so it makes sense his alignment regardless. Point still stands, though. Scum not sheeping me = scum are fighting me = I am on the right track.

[Cerberus v666]

Mastin: I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to take you seriously until you stop handwaving away explaining your thoughts by saying doing so would be anti-town.

[mastin2]

I've done no such thing.

I've said that explaining why I am

town

would be anti-town.
But I've done PLENTY to explain my thoughts.

Speaking of thoughts, I should update them on my plan, the one that is the alternative to LC's.

If I had any power short of vig, including the weak cop, my target would be Nacho, because NACHO.

[hiplop]

Mastin, you convinced me you're town. Scum wouldn't be this adamant about protecting a townie who's playing as poorly as me. I'm not influential enough for my read on you to matter, so I can tell your doing it out of genuinity.

To me that's why I trust your reads a tiny bit more than everyone else's? You're basically 100% town to me, it wouldn't make any logical sense for you to be scum

I personally still think vezok is the scum you're missing. Dude is just relaying everyone's reads and it makes no sense. You pointed this out in one of your posts. He's scumreading my entire wagon yet is saying my wagon is town-lead. What? Osunds almost like his scumreads are composed of entirely the names being frequently tossed around

Sonic is scum for the exact reason mastin is town, Ms is a really fucking good player. He wouldn't be pushing this hard for someone like me who honestly is getting lynched for the most questionable and weak reasons. Yeah, ive been lazy, but that's really it? And honestly I hate self meta, but if you look at any town game by me recently, this is basically it. I get lazy and then get lynched early on. Contrarily, as scum I've recently won every game for being perceived as pro town. Scum see me as an easy mislynch, and lately I am, in fortunately

[mastin2]

^And people wonder why I townread hiplop.

That

, m'friends, is why.

[hiplop]

Idk, I get unmotivated when wagons start to form on me as town because it seems that no matter what I do it ends up going through as town so I tend to get disinterested when I get pushed

[Jaqen Hghar]

Weak cop inventor shouldn't claim since them dying kind of fucks everything up.

Commute inventor...

[mastin2]

I believe the plan is for the cop inventor to not claim until tomorrow at the earliest, though I don't remember the reasoning as to why.

Personally, though, I think that the cop inventor should only claim if they think their life is in danger be it lynch or nightkill, or they have information to reveal to the town. That'd allow the commute inventor free range of movement to continue protecting players likely to be nightkilled, rather than being locked on one player.

[Jaqen Hghar]

@cerberus: You do realise that if the mod put a godfather it was specifically for the weak cop. There is no way he missed the interaction.

Then Shakira must needs looking at again if one is wanting to confirm Sonic. With the way that one is hellbent on being investigated tonight (practically forcing his investigation in fact), a man isn't surprised if that one is the godfather if one U.S. existing. Godfathers are often having that 'investigation me' fetish.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Mastina, why should I be frustrated when you are making yourself an easy mislynch target. Everyone but those voting us like the plan, fools. We will be copped and then conftown. You'll have to 180. I have plenty of things IRL to be pissed about. Your scuminess revealing itself is no reason to be pissed.

FTFY