Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[Lying Cat]

*snore*

[Jaqen Hghar]

*snore*

...says the one concocting an FtC plan wherein if the previous Cop to be investigated is scum, scum are knowing they are about to be investigated and are then able to simply redirect that investigation whether by redirecting the investigator or by Bus Driving the target.

The fact that Weak is existing in this game is also making it

highly probable

scum are having a Bus Driver to balance Weak, if Weak is in fact a town role. Despite Titus calling it a bastard role (which claim the mafiascum wiki isn't backing up).

[Lying Cat]

But do we even know the nightkills were carried out by mafia? Maybe it was goblins.

Or maybe anti is just fucking with us, and there's no scumgroup. He's picking the kills himself.

[Sonic Boom]

try harder, LC....



goblin

chemists

[Lying Cat]

Do you both remember OC?

[Sonic Boom]

I do.

What about it?

[Lying Cat]

Jacky is channeling Wicked from that game.

[Cerberus v666]

Jaqen, I really really really don't understand how you got "I'm scum" out of sonic saying "I hope it's cerb"...I"m quite confused by that.

Cognitive dissonance. That one is well on about "investigate the previous cop" when it is about proving his alignment (though he is posing it as something which must needs be done with each Cop daily) and now that one is "confirmed town" is fine with any old body being investigated (in this case Kari). That's scum.

Umm what? Sonic was CLEARLY talking about your unclear investigation declaration. It sounds like you think Sonic is insinuating you should investigate me, so that way you don't investigate them. That's wrong, and I don't understand how you could possibly misunderstand what they're talking about. Sonic was investigated last night by ME. I received town as my result. I can't investigate myself I'm assuming, so I have to choose someone else to investigate if I were to receive the weak cop. You, however, can investigate both sonic AND myself in essence, by investigating me. Yes, I know you don't like the FtC plan, because you are deathly afraid of redirection, and I'm aware of that risk, which is why we need to see an actual flip from someone in the chain(hopefully later in the chain) before we reach MYLO. However, if you were to investigate sonic, it would be a terrible waste. Just by the act of receiving the cop, you would know that the weak cop exists, which is something you apparently doubt. Once that doubt is cleared up, and you know it has been gifted to you, a town slot, the most useful thing you could do is investigate me, because that would confirm my alignment to you(as much as it can be barring a flip) and it would confirm Sonics alignment to EVERYONE(again, as much as it can be confirmed barring a flip). The second most useful thing you could do is investigate ANY slot that hasn't yet been investigated. The LEAST useful thing you could do would be to investigate Sonic or Shakira.

And the above is why there is no cognitive dissonance in hoping that you would continue the FtC scenario that Sonic has been a proponent of since it was first mentioned.

So, again, wtf are you talking about when you say that makes Sonic scum? For the record, I think you're a tunneling idiot right now, but a town idiot.

[Shakira Confirmed]

How is your Weak Cop result worded? "Sonic Boom", "your target", or just the town/scum itself?

[Cerberus v666]

*snore*

...says the one concocting an FtC plan wherein if the previous Cop to be investigated is scum, scum are knowing they are about to be investigated and are then able to simply redirect that investigation whether by redirecting the investigator or by Bus Driving the target.

The fact that Weak is existing in this game is also making it

highly probable

scum are having a Bus Driver to balance Weak, if Weak is in fact a town role. Despite Titus calling it a bastard role (which claim the mafiascum wiki isn't backing up).

WHAT? Why do scum need a bus driver to balance weak? WEAK MEANS OUR GUILTY RESULTS COST US TOWN PLAYERS.

Now, scum having a bus driver to balance weak cop inventor+commuter inventor...that might make sense, except I'm leaning towards thinking the commuter inventor is scum. I don't know why the weak cop inventor would give their invention to someone who declared they would be following the chain of confirmation if they were scum, unless the whole thing has been manipulated by redirection.

Anyways, can you please post about someone else in the game besides sonic Jaqen? Sonic isn't happening today, barring them outright admitting to being scum in thread.

[Cerberus v666]

How is your Weak Cop result worded? "Sonic Boom", "your target", or just the town/scum itself?

Quoted post of my message declaring the target, the message from the mod gives the alignment in a single word, which is not guilty or innocent.

(I'm actually not sure how strict people are about "quoting" what the mod said, so I"m deliberately avoiding using the specific word I received.) ^^

But yes, there is no indication in the way it is presented on whether the target was changed/who the target was. No help there unfortunately.

[mastin2]

Vote: Aristophanes

How do I explain my feelings there in a way that'll make sense?

Hmm...

I'm not sure there's a way to convey the message to you, Nacho. Let me try though.
This isn't Steak Sauce. This is Squirtle. So please don't vote Aristophanes?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ika

Could lynch that.

Certainly wouldn't be my first choice and I'm not particularly thinking he's scum, but I could lynch that.

I think it's worth noting how little traction there was with regards to Flubber's lynch despite him being a near-universal scumread.

Yep.

If someone starts a wagon there, I'll not only join but spearhead it.

[mastin2]

Wait, I'm not sure it was Squirtle.
It was a pokemon, but dangit, can't remember which one now.
So the reference I'm trying to make might be lost on you. (Not that you were in the second game, though you were in the first so might know what I mean by Steak Sauce.)

[mastin2]

Vote: ika

Aristo, any thoughts?

Though bluntly, this makes me more receptive to the idea of voting Aristo and less receptive to the idea of voting ika by sheer virtue of it being

Wicked

who's doing this.

[mastin2]

Also, the game would be pretty broken if both the commuter and cop are town.

The game would be broken if the commuter was scum, as has been discussed. Seriously. This is a 17-player game with four scum. That is scumsided by itself; town needs some serious power to counter it, and giving the town the weak cop and the commute is the perfect way to get that, because they both have a built-in double-edged sword: the commuter can't be investigated, and the weak cop if getting a guilty will die, reducing the number of town players at a potentially-rapid rate, especially since the weak cop won't know to announce who they're targeting in advance because they won't know they're going to receive it.

Maybe the scum have a power role like rolecop or roleblocker, but frankly they don't need one.

Towns need roles to win games, especially in scum-heavy games.

Anti's smart enough to know this.

[mastin2]

The thing which makes me wary is that people are wagoning ika, but not even mentioning kari. This is highly suspect.

And I know I'm not right on all four of my candidates because I kinda doubt vezok-Kari makes this (very, very legitimate) point.

But I'm not sure where else I'd go.

Wicked and Flubber are basically my strong two. Then there's Kari as a middle-read. Vezok's weak, and ika's in reserve. I want to focus on those five, even though I'm not sure I can see any team combo which involves four of them that's plausible, if that makes sense.

[mastin2]

but her scumgame - i haven't seen it in play that i remember, but i know it's fairly good
and her whole earlygame obnoxiousness wrt that
actually fuck it never mind she can stay in null/nulltown, her talking about scum nightkill motivations and being kind of obvwrong and also just the massive amts of diff/wrong make me... not exactly "okay" with her being town, just. don't think i'll want that lynch for a good while.

You know I probably

should

be insulted by this, but the egotistical narcissist in me is thanking you for the compliment about my scumgame.

I mean, I should

probably

lie and tell you that I'm not REALLY that good, but to be fair, I probably actually am and you're right, I totally could pull it off as scum.

...Still town, though.

VOTE: aristophanes

Aaaaaaaand...any and all motivation to join the Aristophanes wagon evaporates. Just like that.

[mastin2]

tempted to vote mastin out of spite. thinks they're the god of mafia or some bs like that

You'd be surprised how far off that is from the truth.

Yep, pretty much. I mean, I can get fairly good reads at times, but I'm only occasionally good. I'm ~feeling it~ this game, not so much in regards to scumreads anymore, but in regards to my townreads. Basically, I don't think I'm right on all five of my suspects (I can't be; one has to be town by the setup), and probably aren't even right on four of them, because while they each individually make sense as scum, I'm not seeing much of a scumteam, aside from Wicked and Flubber.

Yet what I DO think is that my town POE holds fairly solid. It's not absolute, yet it has a very strong basis. For instance, LC being conftown to me, and the probability that Nacho is town. (We'll see, though. Basically, there's something that if it happens, Nacho's probably scum, and I'll tell you about it if it happens. Until then I'm going on faith that he's town.) Things like that.

Each game is different, sometimes I get both sometimes neither, this game being POE rather than scumhunting.

[mastin2]

I'm fairly sure mastin knows what she's doing here. LC might too, but I feel a lot better about mastin than I do about LC, to be honest.

I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, too, but I'm not infallible.

That being said

, still insisting LC's town. Again, I'd be dead otherwise.

[mastin2]

Mastin, you were saying that at your prime, you managed to lynch a mason as scum?

I have no memory of this.

Pretty sure though that I bragged I COULD. (Which, to be fair, I probably could, and still can. I mean, I lynched Mac when he was borderline conftown, and it's not too hard to lynch a cop inno when scum, you just have to be creative about how you go about manipulating people's paranoia to your favor. A process, though, best left unsaid in a game where...well, y'know. We have cop investigations. I'll tell you if I see a player I think is using this, though*!)

*Jaqen, who I think you're trying to make a point about, doesn't count.
Know what Jaqen is?
Jaqen is PV to Molla.

He's town, not scum, he's just helping scum.

[Lying Cat]

I just said that

[Kari]

if he's helping scum, why should we keep him alive?

like, i dont give two fucks if someone's universally townread; if he is doing more to hurt us, he needs to be dealt with

sad thing is, his wagon will never hit that high.

also thinking nacho is town.

[Jaqen Hghar]

*snore*

...says the one concocting an FtC plan wherein if the previous Cop to be investigated is scum, scum are knowing they are about to be investigated and are then able to simply redirect that investigation whether by redirecting the investigator or by Bus Driving the target.

The fact that Weak is existing in this game is also making it

highly probable

scum are having a Bus Driver to balance Weak, if Weak is in fact a town role. Despite Titus calling it a bastard role (which claim the mafiascum wiki isn't backing up).

WHAT? Why do scum need a bus driver to balance weak? WEAK MEANS OUR GUILTY RESULTS COST US TOWN PLAYERS.

Now, scum having a bus driver to balance weak cop inventor+commuter inventor...that might make sense, except I'm leaning towards thinking the commuter inventor is scum. I don't know why the weak cop inventor would give their invention to someone who declared they would be following the chain of confirmation if they were scum, unless the whole thing has been manipulated by redirection.

Anyways, can you please post about someone else in the game besides sonic Jaqen? Sonic isn't happening today, barring them outright admitting to being scum in thread.

Weak is a 100% guaranteed guilty if the player dies. One screw up from a scum team could lead to blowing it for all of them. A Bus Driver optimally balances a Weak Role by changing the target of the Weak player without informing them a switch has taken place. This game in particular- where Cop is something one player gifts as a one shot to another player- the target is openly discussed in the day phase prior to investigation so the target is known to everyone before the night even starts. Since the target, and not the investigator, is known- a Bus Driver is the only role which perfectly balances the Weak role. At least in this game.

And consider this- both players in Sonic Boom I'm friendly with (hard to actually say "friend" when logistically you can't go throw back a couple of beers with- but I totes would if the situations were different) and there aren't many on site who I can honestly say this about. Personally, I would really prefer to be town reading them because I have a lot of fun playing with them both. But, I'm not. All bullshitting aside (because, yes, a man has been bullshitting most all of this game, for reasons, but bullshitting all the same) I'd be willing to gamble my vas defrenses they're scum here. So, join me. Lynch this scum.

[Jaqen Hghar]

I'm fairly sure mastin knows what she's doing here. LC might too, but I feel a lot better about mastin than I do about LC, to be honest.

I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing, too, but I'm not infallible.

That being said

, still insisting LC's town. Again, I'd be dead otherwise.

You know better than to count on weak sauce such as this to read someone

[Sonic Boom]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA that's a good one

I chuckled

Although I'd rather see jaqen pluck his curlies