[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[TierShift]

Then they'll just recruit instead of poison.

[shos]

and...?

[TierShift]

Then get rid of the poison

[shos]

I'm not sure wha you're trying to say
if they pick recruit, they discard the poison. it's either or, not both, they choose.

[Annadog40]

So cult don't know the other cult members? hat insentive to they have to poisoen inread of recruit

[shos]

There are two cults.
you can either recruit someone, or fail to recruit+die, or you can poison someone and stay alone.

[TierShift]

It doesn't say that cult leaders die if they fail to recruit. But that's the case? Or only if they target other cult? What happens if both leaders cult the same person?

[shos]

Let's restate this

9PM

1 Cult A Leader

1 Cult B Leader

N unrecruitable townies

M poisonproof townies

7-M-N vanilla townies

Cult leaders:

• May either 1-shot recruit OR 1-shot poison.
  
• If they target a person of the other cult(only by recruit), they die.

Poison:
Poisoned people die at the end of the following day.

After N1, the game becomes nightless.

Trying to figure out best numbers for M and N for balance purposesץ

[TierShift]

What happens if they both cult same person

I would like to suggest either a variable number of unrecruitable/poisonproof townies or telling them they are just VTs. Otherwise it becomes a very boring game of PoE.

Next to that, I'd suggest unrecruitable and poisonproof townies know that they have been targeted. In that manner, it is always known how many scum are alive, something that is vital for town to succeed. If you do not want that, you should keep in mind that town not knowing how many scum there are messes with balance.

If you tell poisonproof and unrecruitable townies that they are VTs, you can even PM them something ambiguous such as 'cult tried to do something to you tonight. They failed.'

With my proposed changes, I'd say make 3 townies unrecruitable and tell them they're VT. No poisonproof townies.

[shos]

woah, 3 is very much. I'd go with 1-1 or 2 unrecruitables, only. remember that town have loads of lynches in their ammo, and that cult are culthunting too.

but yeah, variable numbers can be a thing, and I'll think about telling the townies. I can run this as experimental sometime.

[Kmd4390]

I want to propose a setup from the old days that I loved. Back in 2009, we played Paris Mafia:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... aris+mafia

The old setup was:
5 VT
2 mafia goons
2 mimes (Jester team. Wins when both are lynched. Own a joint RB at night)
1 town watcher
1 town vig

The reason it was scrapped, if I'm not mistaken, was that it was scum sided and near impossible for mimes to win. It never got any attention, but postgame I suggested the following:
7 VT
2 mafia goons
2 mimes
1 town watcher
1 town vig

The town has an extra day to try catching the scum and the mimes have an extra day to try to get lynched. The extra day balances any concerns that scum may have too much of an advantage with the mime distraction or whatever else. I've always loved games with jesters and those who disagree can simply avoid this game with it being an open setup. The mime aspect just adds to the fun of jester games and it's not impossible. Even in the old setup, I got myself lynched as mime and having an extra day could help the second mime to get lynched as well. At the very least, I think it deserves one run.

Any thoughts on this? Can we run it once just to see how it does?

[BBmolla]

A Double Day setup with mimes would be cool.

[Kmd4390]

Double day?

[TierShift]

Two lynches per gameday.

[Kmd4390]

Oh. Not sure I like that...

[Yimmy]

This is probably a ridiculous idea, but it's an idea and I'm gonna tell you guys
Assuming it's a day start everything goes like normal until night. When night comes, any non-killing PR will give said pr to whoever they use it on, after the action goes as normal. For the sake of natural action resolution, the PR is given to the other person after everything else, as that allows killing roles to eliminate PRs.
More or less the idea of this is that you can apply it to any setup (probably after some balancing), but for the sake of the example we'll say we're applying it to matrix6 setup with 2 (5 VT, 1 MG, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 cop. 1 doc). If the cop targets VT 1, cop receives an innocent result, and the next night VT 1 gets the ability for the next night. The original cop does NOT keep the ability for the next night. If the doc targets the Mafia goon, but the roleblocker targets the doc, since the doc does not perform the action, he keeps the ability to protect for the next night, but also gets the ability to roleblock the next night. Balance wise that might be townsided, but I don't know what to do about that.
In another case, say that the cop targets VT 1 and the mafia kill the cop. In that case, the cop PR is gone from the game.
If there's a role that somehow would make it so that the role is gone from the game no matter what (can't really think of any examples, but it might be possible), the role will always stay with the original owner. I don't really know what to do about roles like bus driver that target multiple people, such as bus driver. I would say either the bus driver chooses who gets the role, or the original bus driver keeps the role forever.
I'm pretty sure that's everything. I think it would allow for some very interesting games.
This would allow for a couple unique strategic things, such as mafia night killing their partner if a lot of PRs targeted one of the mafia.

[Sméagol]

Hmmz, user changed all of a sudden..
I'm not sure, I think it works overall, but any roles that have more town than mafia utility will disappear if they accidentally target mafia. You can say goodbye to the doc if they target mafia once. And jack-of-all-trades will have weird effects.

[Bicephalous Bob]

You can say goodbye to the doc if they target mafia once.

nah, the original doc knows they passed it on to another player so scum either have to pass it around among themselves and incriminate each other or pass it to town

other PRs can be given to the nightkill target, although that's fishy too

[Yimmy]

On the subject of JOAT, I would say 1-shots act as normal.
That made me think about 2 pr more shots and how to handle those. I think I would probably make it have 2-shots, but still move around. Say a 2-shot cop targets a VT. The VT then targets a different VT, but the second VT doesn't get it because it was 2-shot.
Something that bothers me is that mafia have 2 choices to kill to get rid of the PR. Sither the guynthat has it or the guy that's targeted.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have another idea revolving around the grouped concept.

Large Group Mafia

15 PLAYERS

12 Town:
1 Town 1-Shot Cop
1 Town 1-Sot Role Blocker
1 Town 1-Shot Bullet Proof
9 Vanilla Townie

3 Mafia:
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
1 Mafia Goon

3 GROUPS

that start off with

3 Vanilla Townies w/ 1 Town PR

and

1 Mafia

Each day a group is picked in sequence to vote off someone from their group
Once that group has lynched the mafia from their group, they no longer have a day to lynch
At night phase, Mafia must NK a person from the previous Day Phase group, But Town PR's can choose to use their action on anyone of their choice
All players are able to talk throughout all day phases
Towns win condition is when they have lynched all Mafia members from each respected group
Mafias win condition is to when they hold a 50% majority in any 1 group

Can add or take away VTs as seen fit as well as adding or taking away PR. I don't know whether Town PR should be matched up with an appropriate Mafia role per group or whether they should be randomized.

Still... No one says anything about this. I'll be honest. Honestly I don't know why no one says anything about this game TBH. I have made some changes though. The RB is now a 1-shot Doc. For each group the PT and mafia roles are randomized for the groups. Day 1 all members of Group A's (which is randomized except to say there is 1 random PT and 1 random Mafia per group) votes count for 3 votes each while Group B's and group C's votes count for 1 vote. After group A has had their day phase and a killing night phase (which has to be someone from that previous days group), all subsequent Day phases votes by the previous days group are worth 2 votes and the current groups votes are worth 3 votes and the next group to go votes are worth 1 vote. The exception is that once a group has lynched scum from their group (say Group A lynches scum day 1) their votes become worth only 1 instead of 2 because they are now known townies who cannot die since their group no longer has a lynch phase.

Some things I should say right off the bat...

Town PR do not have to use their NA on someone from their group. So for example: Cop is in Group A and group A lynches mafia Day 1. Cop can investigate anyone of their choosing on any night they wish. 1-shot Doc can choose to save anyone of their choosing as well though they would only want to save someone from the previous days group lynch phase.
Mafia can choose any mafia to use the NK on any one of the previous groups day phase and can also use their ability on any Townies. So for example: The Strong man is not in the group with the BP. Even so, if mafia suspect that the BP is in the previous group (via soft claim, hard claim, what have you) that 1-shot strongman mafia member, granted he's alive, can choose to use his ability on the person they suspect to be BP granted that townie is in the previous days group.

Am I crazy? Is this just a horrible horrible idea? Is it too complex a setup? At this point I don't know what anyone thinks about this game because I have not received any feedback at all from here. It is a setup I would like to run on this site, so if you think it is just an unplayable game, I would really like to hear that so I know its just not going to work.

Thank you so much for reading. I am a newb, but I have spent a lot of time trying to balance this game so any feedback is welcome.

[Kmd4390]

So is that a no on Paris Mafia version 2.0?

[BBmolla]

I think it's legit

[MarioManiac4]

How about this;

4 VTs
2 1-Shot Dayvigs
2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia 1-Shot Dayvig

[BBmolla]

Remove a goon and add a VT and I think it's fine albeit a bit scumsided.

[MarioManiac4]

How about this:
4 VTs
1 Town Bulletproof
2 1-Shot Dayvigs
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia 1-Shot Dayvig