Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[mastin2]

So it's 3 AM in the morning, I should really be getting to bed, but honestly, I'm not feeling tired right now, and I am actually feeling ~motivated~ right now, for the first time in a while, and said motivation might not be here Sunday so best act on it now. (Even though I probably won't finish so much as this game, yet alone, my other mafia duties.)

Unvote. Vote: Kari

I made it clear that I was going to switch back to this, if mastin didn't get any support. But if I see behavior that I think is scummy, then I'm going to pursue it. Everyone not voting Aristo or Kari needs to be... Kari is still a much better lynch than Aristo, she is scummier and she has already claimed VT.

It has been unfair to the players here and to Anti, and thus I am replacing out. If it were going to get easier for me to contribute in coming days/weeks, I'd have remained, but it won't.

No worries, man. You weren't the original slot to replace in... Hope to play with you again.

This interaction in particular screams scum-scum, btw.

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

/starting point.

[mastin2]

Regardless of the commute inventor’s alignment, mastin’s reason for town reading them is seriously flawed. That’s my issue. The commute inventor, if scum, can very easily protect the players that they know scum will not kill. Townish players receiving commutes is not telling… Am I wrong, Nacho?

You continue to ignore the very, very valid point that the scum's targets have been players that the commute inventor would never target in the first place.

Who the hell was townreading Flubber? Flubb was up for being mislynched, on multiple days. Commute inventor can't have predicted that. Who in their right minds would ever protect ZX? Nobody. There are many, MANY reasons Bins wouldn't be protected, from not seeing the claim to not believing it to not thinking scum would kill her.

The commute inventor hasn't stopped a kill yet...but given the very, very pro-town choices the commute inventor has been making, to protect players of value to the town that were likely to die, you can be assured that they are doing their damnedest to try.

Wicked when two people in a row call your argument bad maybe it's not so good? Just a thought

I discussed with Cerb and convinced him that I had a valid point.

...Off of a misrep that I then proceeded to utterly destroy in my response. Let's see Cerb agree to your point after

that

.

He needed more info, alright...to see how full of shit you were.

[mastin2]

She has basically just taken the opposite position to whatever I argue.

You argued hiplop was scum.
Damn right I'll take the opposite stance of you. I won't do so deliberately, of course. That'd be spitefully playing against my wincon just to mess with you. But I

will

stick to my own reads, especially when the offer to work together and figure out a common ground has been, repeatedly, rejected by you.

Even the wrong ones.
No regret. No shame there.

But if the commute inventor was scum, and they knew that scum wanted to nightkill Bins, what is the disadvantage of giving the commute to Lying Cat? They know that the commute isn't going to prevent their nightkilll! They look good by giving the commute to a townish slot.

As has been previously discussed? Outting the existence of the commute invent. Using it on town rather than on scum to hide from the other inventors. Confirming players as town who claim the commute in a town manner and manage to use it effectively. Basically, it'd turn a SUPER-POWERFUL SCUM WEAPON into something that can only benefit the town. All for the sake of towncred they're likely not to actually get?

No.
Just no.

The commute inventor is town.

Could you give me an example of a post/comment that shows scum wording?

If I could, I would have already! Like...it's just the general things. The pushing, the way, the stuff you're saying. Just...not town.

I haven't seen any point from you that is correct or strong enough to justify your certainty.

I don't need a single point. Having so many smaller points along with that overwhelming sensation should be enough.

Okay so you acknowledged it early on, but you are ignoring it now.

No, acknowledging that I suck at reading you means, basically, I suck at having my original read on you. Scum in the original Organic I believe the whole time, scum in Tough Guy, and then later begrudgingly town, only here the other way around. That's me not ignoring it, it's me recognizing it and using it. I thought your early posting was good--which means that it was probably scum. Just like in those games.

[mastin2]

Oh and what is this vast majority that I have ignored?

My iso.

It's nearly 200 posts long.

The wicked suspicion?

Takes up maybe 25% of that, all near the bottom. At most.

That's 75% of the game as either a townread or a non-contributing factor.

Wow, I didn't realize how close we were to deadline. Now I'm starting to get worried.

We have (expired on 2015-07-17 20:30:25) left !

Spoiler: Votecount

Aristophanes - 6 (Flubbernugget, T S O, Kari, Sonic Boom, Constantine, Cerberus v666)
Kari - 4 (Aristophanes, vezokpiraka, Nachomamma8, Wickedestjr)
Constantine - 1 (Jaqen Hghar)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)
Flubber nugget - 1 (Lying Cat)
Not Voting: ika

Jaqen, Lying Cat, mastin - vote for somebody that actually has a chance of getting lynched today. Preferably not Aristo, because that bandwagon is still garbage. Inventors, get your inventions in. ika get ready to hammer.

This post is also terrible because (1) Anti would have given a deadline extension for the three replacements (Aristo requested replacement but was lynched before one could be found), (2) it advocates for a Kari lynch over Aristo, and (3) just is entirely not the Wicked that he says he is as town. (Not sure I can explain that? Just...look at what he says about him and compromising compared to his hard-line here. Doesn't really add up.)

Plus, on a side-note, it's kinda bossing the inventors around, when frankly, the first priority of an inventor should be in figuring out who to submit their invention to, long-before the day is anywhere near completion, making the order unnecessary. (Though this is assuming, of course, the inventors actually are around in the early stages of the day phase. If they're absent and basically just prod-dodging, goes without saying that there's a risk they may not have submitted something yet because they're waiting until they can get good info. This particularly applies to the commute inventor, whose job it is to predict the next nightkill, thus, necessitating them being caught up in the thread. The action can always be changed, of course, but there's the matter of blindly sending it to someone who might not be trustworthy, and the day ending before they have the chance to figure that out. Pretty much the only players that the commute inventor can safely avoid that on are the conftown players, but that's assuming that they haven't already been protected when that is a probability, since giving it to the same conftown twice or arguably even to conftown twice might not be effective because scum are expecting it meaning that the shot is wasted.
...The tl;dr of all the above? Basically, it's essential for the commute inventor to be caught up. They need to submit an action, as informed as possible, and the more time that is given for that, the better. Not sure I'm describing that adequately enough.)

[mastin2]

Aristophanes - 8 (Flubbernugget, T S O, Kari, Sonic Boom, Fluminator, Cerberus v666, Nachomamma8, Jaqen Hghar)

Kari - 4 (Aristophanes, vezokpiraka, Wickedestjr, Lying Cat)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)
Not Voting: ika[/color]

Btw, realize I'm shooting myself in the foot with this suggesting particularly given I'm among the names, but radical idea, here.

How about we look entirely outside the Aristophanes wagon for scum?

Given that he flipped a rather vital scum PR (the only way Aristophanes wouldn't be a valuable scum PR is if the scum had reason to believe they had found every inventor--yet with their ZX vanilla kill N1, I can't see how they

possibly

could have found all three), chances are significantly higher of no or minimal bussing, correct?

Such as, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy, Wicked?

/4 AM. NOW I'm getting tired, and the beginning of D4 seems like a good place to stop for the night. Hopefully I can keep the motivation up come Sunday. (Not anticipating anything on Saturday.)

[mastin2]

(Basically, I'm looking at a Wicked/vezok/ika scumteam right now, if it wasn't clear.)

[Antihero]

Tritium

Tritium (symbol T or ³H, also known as hydrogen-3) is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen. The nucleus of tritium (sometimes called a triton) contains one proton and two neutrons, whereas the nucleus of protium (by far the most abundant hydrogen isotope) contains one proton and no neutrons. Naturally occurring tritium is extremely rare on Earth, where trace amounts are formed by the interaction of the atmosphere with cosmic rays. The name of this isotope is formed from the Greek word "tritos" meaning "third".

Vote Count 4.3

Cerberus v666 - 2 (vezokpiraka, Jaqen Hghar)
Lying Cat - 2 (PeregrineV, St Constantine the Hermit)
mastin2 - 3 (Sonic Boom, Wickedestjr, Nachomamma8)
T S O - 1 (Cerberus v666)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)

Not Voting: ika, Lying Cat, T S O

ika and T S O have been prodded.

7 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-08-02 23:59:22)

[Sonic Boom]

(Basically, I'm looking at a Wicked/vezok/ika scumteam right now, if it wasn't clear.)

Then vote ika.

The other two are officially off the table.

~Titus

[Cerberus v666]

Mastin:TSO investigated wicked last night and received a town result. Thoughts?

[Sonic Boom]

Cerb, how do you feel about not being investigated?

I very much understand the votes on you at the moment although the theory requires TSO scum, which people don't see.

If you're the scum inventor roleblocker, anyone who checks you will die. TSO, being scum, can't check you. If he checks you and keeps the chain alive, then you both are in trouble if either flips. So he checks elsewhere. A town person who thinks you're scum checks Cerb anyway.


On a side note, the commute has not been claimed today. I'd like to get that claim out there.

~Titus

[Wickedestjr]

Constantine commuted last night.

I'll get to this later tonight

[ika]

jsut got home ass......

give me a second i will get to this later

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, how do you feel about not being investigated?

I very much understand the votes on you at the moment although the theory requires TSO scum, which people don't see.

If you're the scum inventor roleblocker, anyone who checks you will die. TSO, being scum, can't check you. If he checks you and keeps the chain alive, then you both are in trouble if either flips. So he checks elsewhere. A town person who thinks you're scum checks Cerb anyway.


On a side note, the commute has not been claimed today. I'd like to get that claim out there.

~Titus

First...ugh. You know why. We discussed this.

Second, I actually don't think TSO has to be scum for me to be scum. You're making the assumption that everyone in the town believes that following the chain was the best choice to make, but I think we're in agreement that Jaqen at least is very likely town, and he's an example of a town player who doesn't believe that following the chain was a good decision.

I wish he had investigated me, because I actually did believe the chain was the best plan, and my gambit at the start of they day would have been less likely to go the way it went had I been investigated by someone who came right out and said I was town at the start of the day, letting you put the pieces together and arrive at the conclusion I was attempting to communicate, rather than immediately CC'ing me.

Anyways, so yeah, your theory that TSO scum can't investigate me if I'm scum as well dose hold up, but I think it's equally likely that TSO town just doesn't think it's worth it to investigate me. I really do want to know why TSO would investigate in a fashion that wouldn't help out town though, in the event that he did find scum. If he honestly thought Wicked was scum, and knew there was a chance that he'd receive the weak cop, and he'd died last night...would we have assumed he investigated Wicked and lynch him? It just seems bad for someone who knows a successful investigation won't actually communicate any information to town to not claim who he'd investigate, or to not investigate along the lines people were assuming the investigation would follow.

So, thinking that through, I'm pretty happy with my vote on TSO right now. I'll move elsewhere if nobody else joins me, bu I just don't think his play makes sense for town.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, SB, the people voting me wanted to vote me yesterday. There vote today has no meaning, because neither of them have shown any capacity to reappraise situations in light of new information. All they do is reinterpret the information in a fashion that fits their desired narrative.

[Cerberus v666]

EBWOP: Ugh. *Their vote today*

[Jaqen Hghar]

jsut got home ass......

give me a second i will get to this later

Home ass is the best ass!

[Jaqen Hghar]

Hope you washed up before coming here tho...

[Sonic Boom]

@Cerb, If you're thinking I'm townreading Jaquen, you're wrong.

~Titus

[Jaqen Hghar]

@Cerb, If you're thinking I'm townreading Jaquen, you're wrong.

~Titus

You should be

[Cerberus v666]

Interesting. Why aren't you town reading him? And, do you think that it only would have investigated anybody but me?

[Cerberus v666]

EBWOP: Do you think that only scum would have investigated anyone other than myself?

[Antihero]

Sodium Hypochlorite

A weak solution of 2% household bleach in warm water is used to sanitize smooth surfaces prior to brewing of beer or wine. Surfaces must be rinsed to avoid imparting flavors to the brew; the chlorinated byproducts of sanitizing surfaces are also harmful. The mode of disinfectant action of sodium hypochlorite is similar to that of hypochlorous acid.

US Government regulations allow food processing equipment and food contact surfaces to be sanitized with solutions containing bleach, provided that the solution is allowed to drain adequately before contact with food, and that the solutions do not exceed 200 parts per million (ppm) available chlorine (for example, one tablespoon of typical household bleach containing 5.25% sodium hypochlorite, per gallon of water). If higher concentrations are used, the surface must be rinsed with potable water after sanitizing.

A 1-in-5 dilution of household bleach with water (1 part bleach to 4 parts water) is effective against many bacteria and some viruses, and is often the disinfectant of choice in cleaning surfaces in hospitals (primarily in the United States). The solution is corrosive and needs to be thoroughly removed afterwards, so the bleach disinfection is sometimes followed by an ethanol disinfection. Liquids containing sodium hypochlorite as the main active component are also used for household cleaning and disinfection, for example toilet cleaners. Some cleaners are formulated to be thick so as not to drain quickly from vertical surfaces, such as the inside of a toilet bowl.

[Sonic Boom]

Interesting. Why aren't you town reading him? And, do you think that it only would have investigated anybody but me?

Because everything he's put into the thread has been a bowl full of wrong.

I do think TSO ika is pretty likely.

Right now, ika's committing his biggest scumtell he has. Town points for anyone who jumps onto ika who isn't voting Mastina or TSO.

~Titus

[Sonic Boom]

but ika has more posts than vezokpiraka....

ftr i have doubts on ika scum. we'll see.

~sonic

[mastin2]

VOTE: Lying Cat

I repeat: if Lying Cat were scum, I would be dead by now.

Ok first things first, Ari flipped scum with a role. Most likely anyone with a role that's not inventor is scum and it's unlikely but not impossible for a scum to be an inventor.

Agreed. (Yes, Titus, I'm actually AGREEING with you because, surprise, I'm not deliberately taking the opposite stance as you! The point here is basically my own thought, too.)

I see three major reasons to kill Flubber in light of Ari's flip. First, scum found out that Flubber was the cop inventor. Second, scum shot him because they couldn't lynch him. Third, to frame someone to lynch. Figuring out which one of these motives is best. That's a bit harder to do right now, but if we keep these in mind, we may be able to eliminate these.

I think the ZX shot makes it preeeeeeeeeetty dang obvious which it was. Unless you can find a common link between ZX and Flubber about lynch-framing (I'm sure not gonna bother to check), the FAR more likely explanation was PR-hunting. I'm ruling out the not-lynching option, because, duh, Flub had support to be lynched every day that could have gone through at any time; the only thing that'd save Flub would be a PR claim, which brings us back to the first. They might not have known, but if they at least suspected, then that'd be reason enough for most scum players to shoot. (I mean, my style is to gun for town players such as Nacho and LC with my nightkills rather than players who might be PRs but whose deaths are worthless otherwise, but I'm by far not in the majority when it comes to that style of "Screw the risks of PRs!" nightplay.)

Which probably means that both the remaining inventors are at risk, too. The scum may not know who they are, but if they have suspicions about it, then bam. Helps us immensely if they're WRONG, of course (particularly if they're 'scumreading' the inventors, thus, less likely to NK them), but if they're RIGHT, that means that the inventors need to make their time count, both play and action-wise. (That being said, now MIGHT be a good time for the other inventor to claim. It would have the negative side-effect of locking the commute-inventor onto them, but it'd guarantee that third invention would last until the scum kill the commute inventor. Basically, the commute inventor probably doesn't have even the slightest clue who the third inventor is, whereas the scum actively hunting the third inventor probably do, if their Flub kill is any indication. Totally the third inventor's call, though we can discuss the pros/cons in more detail regardless.)