STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER


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Post Post #2600 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:11 am

Post by Fro99er »

I didn't want to lynch you for that claim EVEN THOUGH I was scum reading you earlier (as in, before that claim).
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2601 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:12 am

Post by Fro99er »

Replace in wrote:
Fro99er wrote:yeah...
that's exactly why I DIDN'T want to lynch him
(even though I was scum reading him/his slot earlier)
was for that claim
(not because Lion is a cool character, which Lion is, but because by flavor it's a town character).

But his play has just been too scummy.


you were scum reading me for my claim? But you didn't want to lynch me because of my claim? :eek:

Maybe the bold and parentheses help...it was worded a bit weird, I'll concede that.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2602 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:13 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Skybird wrote:Mastin, you were town-reading Vezok D1 and now you have him listed as null. I didn't see anything in your ISO that shows why he's slipped down.



It's because mastin was away from the game for a long time and forgot he townread me. When he came back he put me in null just to be sure.
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Post Post #2603 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:22 am

Post by Fro99er »

Replace in wrote:
Fro99er wrote:That's a bunch of crap by Replace In. He was the last one on the Hermit wagon of the four that were on the wagon at the time he just switched to Cool. So he voluntarily joined his "scum reads" on the wagon.


I didn't notice until now, actually.


But you did notice earlier your wagon was all town reads (except constantine...see below), so why didn't you even consider the constantine wagon was all your scum reads?

Replace in wrote:
Ricastle wrote:Ah yes, the common buzztell "the wagon built too fast"...almost always bullshit. Look at the wagon composition. Me & Vezok are conftown. Far voted ages ago and when there was only one vote on Replace In (mine). Trench was the first to pile on in that page. Where is the scum vote here?

St Constantine the Hermit wrote:You shouldn't of pushed me
VOTE: Replace In

Cheers!


found it!
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2604 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:28 am

Post by Replace in »

I don't usually analyse wagons. It's just Ricastle pointing it out and Hermit voting me the next post that I commented on it.

I noticed people got off the wagon, so I looked at who was on it. I don't really have much scumreads, so I figured I'd pick the towniest wagon instead.

I would still like Vezok to comment on his post about my role.
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Post Post #2605 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:40 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

CoolDog's push on Ricastle was bad, but I dunno if that's scum-bad.

Reasonably Rational wrote:
Oh, and CoolDog: you're right, bad scum can win games too, that's true. It's generally safer, though, to assume your enemies are competent, so you aren't surprised by something clever and effective. Something stupid and effective is generally less threatening than clever and effective...since clever and effective will get them to endgame with a handpicked set of players, and stupid and effective will let them skate until end game, at which point their terrible play gets them lynched.

-Cerb


Rational, are you in this case deciding to assume that CoolDog is competent scum, or not competent scum? You said you were scumreading them before their Ricastle post, how has that read changed from that post? Is it the same, or are you now more confident?

Trench, and Rational, what do you believe he was trying to accomplish with his Ricastle push, then?
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Post Post #2606 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:43 am

Post by Trench Warfare »

@Vezok, I don't like you answering for Mastina.

@Maxwell, He's either avoiding bussing, doing horrible distancing, trying to get towncred, or really needs Ricastle mislynched. The scum objectives aren't always known.
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Post Post #2607 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:52 am

Post by Fro99er »

Maxwell what do you make of Cool's push then?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2608 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:55 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

Trench: I guess those are all reasons.

Fro99er: I dunno?? If there was more stuff I'd be more set on Cool as scum, but if it's just that then it's not a wagon I'll jump on. That's why I wanna hear what Cerb has to say about Cool, partially. It just seems kind of ridiculous, like he really sees something there in Ricastle and is really badly misinterpreting it.
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Post Post #2609 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:02 pm

Post by Fro99er »

MaxwellPuckett wrote:Fro99er: I dunno?? If there was more stuff I'd be more set on Cool as scum, but if it's just that then it's not a wagon I'll jump on. That's why I wanna hear what Cerb has to say about Cool, partially. It just seems kind of ridiculous, like he really sees something there in Ricastle and is really badly misinterpreting it.

Why does what Cerb say determine your opinion on Cool's Ricastle push?

But I agree he's badly misinterpreting at best (or intentionally misrepping at worst) things Ricastle has said/done.

Ricastle's retort to Cool was 100% spot on, so either Cool really believes what he's saying or he's trying to drive the worst mislynch in history, which I think scum would be more careful about so I think it's his lack of attention as town more so than him being scum.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2610 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:06 pm

Post by Skybird »

I agree the Replace in comment is weird. (Him joining a wagon that contains his scum reads and only noticing it when he leaves to vote Cool.)

VOTE: Replace In
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Post Post #2611 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:14 pm

Post by Fro99er »

Skybird wrote:I agree the Replace in comment is weird. (Him joining a wagon that contains his scum reads and only noticing it when he leaves to vote Cool.)

VOTE: Replace In

Did you have an opinion of Replace in prior? Does this change your read on Constantine, since Replace In was voting Constantine just prior to his switch to Cool?
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2612 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:17 pm

Post by farside22 »

Fro99er wrote:
Ricastle wrote:This push is strategic as fuck.

I don't see it as strategic for CooLDoG to push you to save Replace In, unless both Replace In and CooLDoG are both scum.

But even in the PT with me he says he's good with lynching Replace In over Constantine so, no, RI and CooLDoG aren't both scum. He could have gone for Constantine if he wanted, so to want Replace if they were both scum makes no sense.

Unless he was worried about Constantine getting lynched and they are both scum given he knows I'm scum reading constantine...then I guess that could make sense. IDK. If that were the case he probably would have just voted Replace In instead of voting you.


I don't get with the deadline he would vote off either wagon.
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Post Post #2613 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:18 pm

Post by mastin2 »

So I only have fifteen minutes. Doubt I'll be able to read the two pages (back on 103 right now) in that time, but I'll try.

I logged in for additional points against Frogger.
Near-universally, vote thief (which is basically what Frogger's ally power is) is a scum ability. I realize that searching for vote thieves is a problem because (1) it's an extremely rare role, and (2) it's almost always in a theme and thus not necessarily called by that name (vote thieves being CALLED vote thieves are in the minority!), but for every instance of a town vote thief you find, you can find ten instances of a scum vote thief. The reason why is clear: because while there is basically minimal utility in a town player stealing the vote of another player (one who is far more likely to be town than scum anyway, ESPECIALLY given the allying system!), there is
massive
utility in a scum player stealing the vote of a player (especially a town one), even if the steal is limited to one player and is public in nature.

Then you look into the ascetic half. Let's for the sake of argument discard the fact that Varsoon included a 1x Gladiator and that Fro99er claimed to be an ascetic, when in a previous game that Varsoon was in, that combination would make Fro99er scum. Let's just assume that for one second, that point isn't valid and that it actually IS coincidence. (It's not, I guarantee you it's not, but for the sake of argument...) Let's focus on just the ascetic bit. What is the utility in a town ascetic? There basically is none; it's considered a negative utility role, akin to a miller.

What is the utility in a scum ascetic? As I have said--and take it from me, I'm a NORMAL REVIEWER so I actually GET THIS AS PART OF MY JOB!--Mafia Ascetics are used in lieu of Godfathers, and while weaker in the sense that they're not giving a false positive, they're stronger in that they interfere with all town investigative roles (including the RB) rather than just the one. So Mafia Ascetics, again I know this for a fact, are in the rise usage-wise.

Ergo, Fro99er's role is not just half scum.
It's entirely scum.
There's minimal to zero town utility behind the role, while offering scum MASSIVE utility.

Frogger is scum. Guarantee you. By setup. By mod meta. By play of hydra partner. By VCA. By dead town analysis. And by own play. (Admittedly I've yet to show the last bit, but I'm planning on it when I have more time.) Whoever else might be scum. Maybe Replace-in, maybe Constantine. It doesn't matter. Leave them for another day. Heck, the presence of an ascetic Fro99er's alignment regardless implies the presence of an investigative PR, so if you're that desperate to learn their alignment let a cop take care of them or something. You can't do that for Fro99er, though. So just lynch him today. Not tomorrow, today.
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Post Post #2614 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:22 pm

Post by mastin2 »

Also, should mention that I'm considering kicking farside out of the town section because I don't recall seeing her EVER be this much of an arrogant insufferable jerkass in any of our prior games where she was town, and similarly vezok's lack of support NOW when it matters, whereas previously everything he said prior was suggesting he should be in support, both make me extremely paranoid. However, for the time being, I'm discarding those thoughts on those two as just that. Maybe they're scum, they're probably not, but if I live to see D3, I'll give it a better look then, not now, because today is NOT the day to go thinking about paranoid what-ifs. (I just need to vocalize it in the chance I get NKed. Throw it out there to be quickly discarded, so to speak.)

And sorry, I'm a slower typist than I thought, so I've run out of time and will have to do 103 onward later tonight.

tl;dr: Ignore this post, it's just me making a note to look at players later, after D2--focus on my previous post and why Fro99er is scum.
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Post Post #2615 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by Ricastle »

This isn't normal, this is Theme, and a Varsoon Theme no less. The only parts of your case that are remotely passable are Ika's meta and anything you have against Fro99er's actual play
which you should really get to detailing already
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Post Post #2616 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by Skybird »

I had a null-scum read on Radmann. Replace In hasn't really taken the slot into town territory but he also hasn't taken it completely into scum territory until recently.

My read on Constantine really hasn't changed but the Replace In slot is more scummy now.
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Post Post #2617 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:25 pm

Post by Skybird »

#2616 was in reply to Frogger BTW.
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Post Post #2618 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:30 pm

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

Fro99er: My reply to you was worded badly, but what I'm basically saying there is that I don't really know how to deal with CoolDog's Ricastle push, but I'm thinking Cool really believes in it, so it's not convinced me to vote for Cool.

The Cerb stuff is about actually scumreading Cool in general, what I was saying there is I'd like to see a case on Cool that isn't just his Ricastle push. Since Cerb had said they were scumreading Cool, I wanted to know the reasons for that, because he was leanscum to me for most of D1 on gut.

Also, Constantine's play today has made me feel a bit differently. Not really play though, more like their posts, particularly their stance on CoolDog. I'm not as confident there. Replace In, though, I'm definitely still confident about.

VOTE: Replace In
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Post Post #2619 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:32 pm

Post by Fro99er »

THAT IS L-1
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2620 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:34 pm

Post by Fro99er »

UNVOTE:

Not letting a lynch happen that I'm not sure cool does or doesn't want to be on.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2621 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:35 pm

Post by Fro99er »

I assume Cool follows me on an unvote too? If so, L-3. If not, L-2
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2622 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:35 pm

Post by farside22 »

mastin2 wrote:Also, should mention that I'm considering kicking farside out of the town section because I don't recall seeing her EVER be this much of an arrogant insufferable jerkass in any of our prior games where she was town, and similarly vezok's lack of support NOW when it matters, whereas previously everything he said prior was suggesting he should be in support, both make me extremely paranoid. However, for the time being, I'm discarding those thoughts on those two as just that. Maybe they're scum, they're probably not, but if I live to see D3, I'll give it a better look then, not now, because today is NOT the day to go thinking about paranoid what-ifs. (I just need to vocalize it in the chance I get NKed. Throw it out there to be quickly discarded, so to speak.)

And sorry, I'm a slower typist than I thought, so I've run out of time and will have to do 103 onward later tonight.

tl;dr: Ignore this post, it's just me making a note to look at players later, after D2--focus on my previous post and why Fro99er is scum.



Bahahahaga.
Yeah I am.
Some call me stubborn beyond and pig headed and dumb and yada, yada, yada.

All you've done is tunnel on frogger so excuse me for just ignoring you continued ranting while sonic lurks like a mofo.

That said cooldog is really pushing some bad points. Idk what is going on there. I wish I knew.
The sudden votes from replace to cool was very disconcerting.

I really want a replace in lynch and I hope he does flip scum like I suspect just to get mastin to stfu.
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Post Post #2623 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by Fro99er »

I will declare intent on Replace in if we're running up near deadline tomorrow and I still haven't heard from cool on voting Replace In. But that was a bit unnerving how two more votes just popped up for an unannounced L-1 so fast.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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Post Post #2624 (ISO) » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:42 pm

Post by Fro99er »

farside22 wrote:while sonic lurks like a mofo.

And while Sonic continues to NOT make a case on me other than the blatant BS of this being my scum meta (and relying on other's cases that Skybird debunked all but Beer's). Other than that, he STILL hasn't presented a case.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend
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