STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina's not conftown.

What were you expecting, a public reveal of my role PM? A direct message from the mod saying,

Mastin2 is confirmed to be a Beach City Resident

on daystart?

No, I said I was conftown for different reasons, reasons which will be clear at a slightly later time. But sometime this day phase, short of you being morons and quicklynching.

Yes. Talking with TSO, but I think the walls need to look at you.

[Metal Sonic]

The walls have eyes

by the by this is a really really good book

[Sonic X]

The walls have eyes

by the by this is a really really good book

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5782 ... -have-eyes


turns out this was a bit difficult to find on google

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic X, please sign your posts so I know who I'm talking to.

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er. I've got a PT where I can grill him, but I don't know what the actual case is, because you won't say. When I caught up, I saw people speculating that his claim was false because of no stated fusion activated ability, so I confirmed he is a gem because only gems fuse, and I'm in a fusion with him.

Please ... just lay out the case. Ideally with some post links (or quotes if you have the time). I just don't see the case and I want to know what the case is given that I can grill him to my heart's content in the PT and get a read of my own.

@Everyone

- I am leaning towards believing that Mastin is town. I know why she said what she did on day one and I know how she becomes confirmed. I'm waiting to talk to Cerberus before deciding how to proceed. I would say it's probably 85% chance she was honest and is town, and made a reasonable assumption that ended up not being quite what she expected, and a 15% chance, at most, that she's running a gambit. I am not quite at the point where I can unequivocally say that she's town, but it's close.


Love, and Cupcakes,
Drixx

[Sonic X]

always assume it is sonic unless signed otherwise by zx. zx is almost never playing this game. typical.

screw cases. my lawyer mastina will do that shit for you. why dont you take some time and ISO mastina

[Sonic X]

you know what

im nice

i'll do it for you

enjoy quotewalls

i did this on purpose

that'll teach you

Also, I'm gonna do what Sonic was too lazy to: quote Beer about Raging Bull, AKA, Frogger. (Or Fro99er, if you prefer to be technical.)

Bull/NicCage are the two players that seriously seriously need to be looked at when I flip town. Bull is white knighting us: he continually tries to ascribe scum motivation to town players pushing out wagon that isn't there, his thought process doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and he keeps complaining about people pushing him for his activity when the entire push is on Ika for his inactivity.

You've seen Ika lurk as town, ok. Has he ever gone through an entire day phase with this little content as town before? Do you really think that ika replaces out of this game without telling his own hydra partner as town or do you think he at least makes an effort to defend himself/explain what happened? I can't stress enough how straightforward and easy the Ika read is. Read his completed games. Skim his ISOs. He lurks comically hard as scum (which is what he's doing here). He puts some sort of effort in as town. That's it.

Vezok's somewhat shadiness in terms of being forthright about what was said and the hated claim deal and I am not feeling good about a Beer wagon. He's probably getting lynched anyway because deadline, but you are my strongest scumread because both you and ZZ are playing to your scum meta.

Vezok has been shady about the situation? Hasn't seemed that way at all to me. It seems like he made a misguided push and put his heart into it; you say that he claiming we were hated happened too late but he did it early enough where the town could have did something about it and he was additionally under no obligation to share our claim because it is our responsibility to get in thread and claim our shit. You trying to pin our lynch on his shadiness is bullshit.

There's also that matter of the empty claim of Sonic/ZZZX playing to their scum meta: are you planning on backing that up, or do you hope vague meta assertions about other players are going to carry you to victory?

You all forgot that a lynch didn't happen after bins "hammered"
Beer obviously isn't hated
Either that or Varsoon made a vc mistake

There's 9 votes on Beer and 11 to lynch. Beer could still be hated.
VOTE: Sonic X

This is an extraordinarily lame vote. You think that Sonic-scum pushes that we are scum because we are not hated when we only have 9 votes on us?

So activity is? It's so annoying when I'm read as town or as scum based on activity

Don't care about your activity. I care about Ika's. There's a very strong correlation between activity and alignment with him and he's shown no signs of fixing that correlation anytime soon.
I don't think you've done anything that looks particularly town, either: pushing vezok for not paraphrasing the PT shows that you're not reading his posts very closely or looking at his play as a whole.

GOOD LYNCHES:
Ra9in9 Bull: I love this vote because it's so lovely and so easy. When ika posts, he's town. When ika doesn't post, he's scum. Ika isn't posting. He is probably scum! Now there is this nasty caveat that the slot might be scum thanks to the bulletproof claim that was crumbed at the beginning of the game but it's not a shining light of overwhelming towniness that makes me feel bad about voting the slot or anything like that.

Vote: Raging Bull

This seems like a fairly straightforward vote and the likeliest to hit scum at the moment. Ika has a very distinct meta: as town, he does something. As scum, he does nothing but lurk. All he is doing here is lurking.

There ya go.

Yeah, yeah. Lynched player, who also had some provably-bad reads (e.g. Marquis, Cheetory). I'm not saying to blindly sheep them; they should be taken with a grain of salt. But I am also asking that people read the above and consider it.

why did you out our BP

Also don't see this as town.

Good god, why of all the roles i get this......
Meh at least the other part is ok. I got a few to chat but then i got work

This also doesn't look good, either.

I'm not voting frogger. That wagon screams bad things.

All of its one voters?

WHAT bad things?

The only bad thing about it is how it's not larger than it is!

Quick note before I go to work:
Another couple of points against Frogger are that ika's rage looked entirely faked (as did most of his posting for that matter), and that Frogger's posting has been fairly bad overall: there are admittedly large chunks in the middle that are okay, but both near the beginning and the end, it's nothing but bad posting. That, not even going into the Raging Bull posting which was just terrible.

I really wish I had more time to talk right now, because there's not only the above I want to talk about in more detail, but also one or two others that I want to explain:
One, that it's unlikely Varsoon would include THREE different double-voters with one of them as a vote thief, and make them all town. Two, that when it came to the power roles from the Micro, Varsoon felt that the town was overpowered and scum underpowered by my memory, and that he ranted about it--so do you honestly think that in THIS game, he'd make the scum EVEN WEAKER and the town EVEN STRONGER by having a town ascetic vote thief? No, by far the more likely answer is that V buffed the power of the mafia ascetic to be a vote thief, because by someone's own admission (forget who), Varsoon makes ridiculously-strong scum roles. And ascetic vote thief (keep in mind that scum ascetic IS EFFECTIVELY A GODFATHER!) seems to fit the bill.

Mastin2, you made two very passionate posts on how one should NEVER hero-vig, and here you are telling ricastle to hero-vig.

Yes.

WHICH SHOULD TELL YOU WHAT I MEAN ABOUT FROGGER!

The fact that there's this much resistance to a Fro99er wagon should tell you something, too! Even people who

have supported the wagon

are hesitant to join it. Such as Ricastle. Heck! Vezok's iso contains nothing but Frogger-bashing the entire time as far as I can tell, so he should have no reason to resist, yet here he is insisting that something about the basically-nonexistent-at-the-time wagon is bad!

Add in the conftown mass commute/reflexive kill by TunnelWarriors and you claiming you are conftown tomorrow, then what kind of powers do you think scum has, and why haven't we seen any yet?

I think we have: YOURS! Ascetic for town = macho-miller essentially, unable to be investigated or protected. Ascetic for SCUM? SUPERIOR in strength to a Godfather, because it effectively makes them half-ninja (immune to trackers), half-strongman (immune to roleblockers), and COMPLETE godfather (immune to cops, rolecops, gunsmiths, vanilla cops, and whatnot). Throw in the vote thief power? You've got one heck of a strong scum role.

Frogger v Sonic screams TvT, how do you not see that?

How do you not see that Frogger isn't town? It's townVscum, SonicVFrogger. And now I get to turn around and flip the point in Frogger's defense against him: you're saying this generic thing about Frogger being town, without backing up why. (The irony!)

So I only have fifteen minutes. Doubt I'll be able to read the two pages (back on 103 right now) in that time, but I'll try.

I logged in for additional points against Frogger.
Near-universally, vote thief (which is basically what Frogger's ally power is) is a scum ability. I realize that searching for vote thieves is a problem because (1) it's an extremely rare role, and (2) it's almost always in a theme and thus not necessarily called by that name (vote thieves being CALLED vote thieves are in the minority!), but for every instance of a town vote thief you find, you can find ten instances of a scum vote thief. The reason why is clear: because while there is basically minimal utility in a town player stealing the vote of another player (one who is far more likely to be town than scum anyway, ESPECIALLY given the allying system!), there is

massive

utility in a scum player stealing the vote of a player (especially a town one), even if the steal is limited to one player and is public in nature.

Then you look into the ascetic half. Let's for the sake of argument discard the fact that Varsoon included a 1x Gladiator and that Fro99er claimed to be an ascetic, when in a previous game that Varsoon was in, that combination would make Fro99er scum. Let's just assume that for one second, that point isn't valid and that it actually IS coincidence. (It's not, I guarantee you it's not, but for the sake of argument...) Let's focus on just the ascetic bit. What is the utility in a town ascetic? There basically is none; it's considered a negative utility role, akin to a miller.

What is the utility in a scum ascetic? As I have said--and take it from me, I'm a NORMAL REVIEWER so I actually GET THIS AS PART OF MY JOB!--Mafia Ascetics are used in lieu of Godfathers, and while weaker in the sense that they're not giving a false positive, they're stronger in that they interfere with all town investigative roles (including the RB) rather than just the one. So Mafia Ascetics, again I know this for a fact, are in the rise usage-wise.

Ergo, Fro99er's role is not just half scum.
It's entirely scum.
There's minimal to zero town utility behind the role, while offering scum MASSIVE utility.

Frogger is scum. Guarantee you. By setup. By mod meta. By play of hydra partner. By VCA. By dead town analysis. And by own play. (Admittedly I've yet to show the last bit, but I'm planning on it when I have more time.) Whoever else might be scum. Maybe Replace-in, maybe Constantine. It doesn't matter. Leave them for another day. Heck, the presence of an ascetic Fro99er's alignment regardless implies the presence of an investigative PR, so if you're that desperate to learn their alignment let a cop take care of them or something. You can't do that for Fro99er, though. So just lynch him today. Not tomorrow, today.

Btw, another point against Frogger is that BP claim earlier. (Still need to catch up, am doing so soon.)
As a town ascetic, know what your job is?

To die via nightkill

. Like a town miller.
Alternatively, to draw scum PRs if unclaimed, even though that strategy is questionable even at its best.

Know what claiming BP does?

Ensures you don't die via nightkill

.

Like, I'm raising a ton. TON. Of points against Frogger, which are a wide variety of different things, different angles to look at it. And basically the only thing, the only way to write that off, is, "Well, his play looks town?"

Mastin, what could ricastles lack of support for voting frog have to do with frog's alignment? That's sort of sophistic territory you're walking into there. Vezo though idk, that would be nice to hear about.

The basic point is a response to the Replace-in wagon.

"Oh, hey, it's been hard to wagon Replace-in, that means Replace-in must be scum."

To which, I responded, "Oh, YEAH? Just look at the Frogger wagon, which

has resistance from people who

previously supported it and haven't changed their mind

. And go tell me THAT isn't a hard wagon."

I'm fighting tooth and nail here for every vote.

All the while

, struggling to maintain those already existing,

and

with the risk of the existing wagons overtaking my counterwagon attempt at any time to get a lynch. The Fro99er wagon is viable, sure, but it struggles to be tangible.

In contrast, the Replace-in wagon and the Constantine wagon have both existed since the beginning of the day, essentially--the Replace-in wagon going further back than that, to D1! They've been both viable and tangible the entire time (thus, are likely mislynches), so basically, the 'point' against Replace-in is actually a huge black mark against Fro99er, not Replace-in.

Why are you agreeing with Fro99er's point about Replace In if you think he's scum, which as a result would give Replace In a legitimate reason as scum to try and clear Fro99er?

Just because Frogger's scum doesn't mean he can't raise a good point for why Replace-in wouldn't be. In fact, it's to his benefit to. Basically, Frogger's alignment regardless, he raised a good point on why Replace-in wouldn't be scum. I agreed with the point. I still think Frogger is scum in spite of him raising the point.

Fro99er also hasn't *done* anything.

Which is, by itself, a something!

Would scum ascetic frogger not tell town he was ascetic, so that way he gets to be a PL for not sharing that information earlier in the game?

And who says he had any intention of being outted as ascetic? A cop failing in their investigation isn't going to go, "Hmm, must be ascetic." They're going to think, "Hmm, musta been roleblocked." Same for ANY role acting during the night. If a role targets an ascetic player, they're not going to think the player they're targeting caused the failure; they'll suspect an outside source. Basic human nature, given the relative rarity of ascetics and the relative commonality of roleblocker-type roles. In fact, Sonic X with a gladiate is probably one of the ONLY roles who targeting Frogger WON'T produce the, "I must have been roleblocked" reaction, since ascetic is basically the only real answer to the shot being expended yet having failed.

I don’t care that Varsoon may have seen the scum ascetic/ town gladiator before.

May have

seen?!?

He was in the fucking game!

Fuck it. I swore I wouldn't bring that game up, but you clearly are all lazy idiots who refuse to do your own damn research without me wagging the leash in front of you, so here I go. The game in question.

I find it impossible. Literally. fucking. impossible. That we have a 1x Gladiator claim. And an ascetic claim. With Varsoon as the mod. As COINCIDENCE. When he was in that fucking game.

That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

This is an absolute shit point too.

Replace-in voted Constantine out of survivalism: Replace-in was the largest wagon, and Constantine the second-largest.

When Replace-in bothered to look at the wagon on Constantine, Replace-in made the analysis that it was a bad wagon, and

in spite of it basically ensuring Replace-in as the lynch

, said that anyway, and I believe hopped off.

Know what that is?

That's town.

Not scum.

RAISING this point AGAINST Replace-in, though, THAT is scum.

That comment about the Constantine wagon being all scum reads (even though he was the last to join the Constantine wagon of those currently voting Constantine) is absolute BS. Why did he join a bunch of scum reads on a wagon?

This is an absolute shit point too.

Replace-in voted Constantine out of survivalism: Replace-in was the largest wagon, and Constantine the second-largest.

When Replace-in bothered to look at the wagon on Constantine, Replace-in made the analysis that it was a bad wagon, and

in spite of it basically ensuring Replace-in as the lynch

, said that anyway, and hopped off.

After Fro99er made that post, Replace-in gained a number of votes, at least one or two, off of that point alone. When it is the absolute largest piece of shit of a point ever. And of those who jumped on, I think there might have been one

who previously acknowledged Replace-in's survivalism-vote as being null

. (Checking in a sec to confirm.)

Still would like to say that Fro99er's point was a shitty one.

[NicCage]

Sonic X, please sign your posts so I know who I'm talking to.

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er. I've got a PT where I can grill him, but I don't know what the actual case is, because you won't say. When I caught up, I saw people speculating that his claim was false because of no stated fusion activated ability, so I confirmed he is a gem because only gems fuse, and I'm in a fusion with him.

Please ... just lay out the case. Ideally with some post links (or quotes if you have the time). I just don't see the case and I want to know what the case is given that I can grill him to my heart's content in the PT and get a read of my own.

@Everyone

- I am leaning towards believing that Mastin is town. I know why she said what she did on day one and I know how she becomes confirmed. I'm waiting to talk to Cerberus before deciding how to proceed. I would say it's probably 85% chance she was honest and is town, and made a reasonable assumption that ended up not being quite what she expected, and a 15% chance, at most, that she's running a gambit. I am not quite at the point where I can unequivocally say that she's town, but it's close.


Love, and Cupcakes,
Drixx

That's like work man. What's your read on him anyhow?

[Reasonably Rational]

Thank you. I will read and digest, discuss with Cerb and then talk to Fro99er in our fusion. While he will be on alert for us trying to read him, we have some approaches that may work to make us believe he's scum pretty firmly, depending on how co-operative he is and how he answers our questions. Obviously we'll report which way we're convinced.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic X, please sign your posts so I know who I'm talking to.

I asked, quite clearly, for the case against Fro99er. I've got a PT where I can grill him, but I don't know what the actual case is, because you won't say. When I caught up, I saw people speculating that his claim was false because of no stated fusion activated ability, so I confirmed he is a gem because only gems fuse, and I'm in a fusion with him.

Please ... just lay out the case. Ideally with some post links (or quotes if you have the time). I just don't see the case and I want to know what the case is given that I can grill him to my heart's content in the PT and get a read of my own.

@Everyone

- I am leaning towards believing that Mastin is town. I know why she said what she did on day one and I know how she becomes confirmed. I'm waiting to talk to Cerberus before deciding how to proceed. I would say it's probably 85% chance she was honest and is town, and made a reasonable assumption that ended up not being quite what she expected, and a 15% chance, at most, that she's running a gambit. I am not quite at the point where I can unequivocally say that she's town, but it's close.


Love, and Cupcakes,
Drixx

That's like work man. What's your read on him anyhow?

Null lean scum at the moment. He needs to start talking to us in our fusion PT, and soon, or that's going to quickly move into lean scum and then strong lean scum just because if he was town he should be willing to talk to us and answer questions and so far it's crickets. It hasn't been a super long time yet though.

~Drixx

[Fro99er]

Null lean scum at the moment. He needs to start talking to us in our fusion PT, and soon, or that's going to quickly move into lean scum and then strong lean scum just because if he was town he should be willing to talk to us and answer questions and so far it's crickets. It hasn't been a super long time yet though.

So you're scum reading me for my activity now? I just told you in our PT why I've been inactive. I can even take a picture of my dog if you don't believe me.

Ask away.

[NicCage]

Could you clarify if your role pm gives you an explicit or like titus' does?

[Sonic X]

irresistible

if you send me pictures of your dog i will unvote you for 24 h

[Fro99er]

Could you clarify if your role pm gives you an explicit or like titus' does?

An explicit what? I don't understand what you mean.

My only abilities are ascetic (permanent) and my vote thing (only works when I'm in an alliance or fusion)

[NicCage]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

[vezokpiraka]

How can I townread TSO and scumread titus so hard????? This doesn't make sense.

Anyway fro99er needs death today. No more pussyfooting. If he flips scum we mass claim tomorrow. If he doesn't God help us.

[Ricastle]

You've already gotten two town lynched due to flavour reasons. What differentiates this push of yours from the other two?

[vezokpiraka]

You've already gotten two town lynched due to flavour reasons. What differentiates this push of yours from the other two?

How many times do I have to tell you that beer wasn't a flavour lynch? We lynched him because he was scummy.

Replace in was also scummy, but his flavor had a little more sway in his lynch.

[Ricastle]

Okay, so in your own words, why is Fro99er scummy barring flavour?

[vezokpiraka]

I'm discussing something with farside. I think my reasons are good, but I want a second opinion.

[Trench Warfare]

Mastina, when you were stuck in the wall, was the house like your body?

Time to break this game.

[Fro99er]

^^woah

VOTE: Sonic X

This guy is scum. He flat out lied about my scum meta, and he's the only one here who has played with me in a scum game. He has made ZERO case on me other than that despite me asking several times, and now sheeping Mastin's case after the fact.

When I flip town, or when sonic flips scum, Mastin will have to rethink her mod meta case, and vezok will have to rethink his flavor breaking (Vezok will have pushed a third mislynch of a town character if I get lynched).

[Ricastle]

VOTE: Trench Warfare

They just claimed the Lighthouse Gem Monster in our alliance. Let's go.

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey TW, how are you and Ricastle doing? Having a productive discussion?

Ricastle: Would your shot have gone away if you still had it when we entered LYLO?

-Cerb

pedit: UNVOTE: , that should handle keeping fro99ers vote as just his vote.

Oh, and yeah, unless I'm missing something, Mastins mod meta case is shit, and so is sonics scum meta(because the things sonic pointed to as being scum meta are SUPER weak even if they were true...which I don't think they are, but I don't know fro99ers personality that well, so maybe he is being 'dodgy').

That doesn't make sonic scum by itself imo, unless he's deliberately misrepresenting fro99ers scum meta.

[Trench Warfare]

@RR, Not productive at all. Ricastle hasn't been productive at all and just yelling BREAK THE FLAVOR pretty much the entire time. He really wants a flavor massclaim and is hellbent on that.

How do you know that Mastina has a conftown message? I just rolecopped them and Varsoon sent over what Mastina does. There's nothing about them that says conftown in the slightest. However, it does tell me something...

[Varsoon]

Originally, the Steven Universe crew was unsure that they'd be renewed for more episodes. The show would have ended on the Mirror Gem/Ocean Gem finale if they weren't able to continue.

Spoiler: