Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Kmd4390]

BBT, TonyMontana is a pretty good pick for scum in my opinion.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't suppose you're interested in forming a wagon on him?

We can get at least 4 votes by my count.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I don't care for the idea of lynching somebody who hasn't done anything good over somebody who has actively done something bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tony has done something that is actively bad.

Did you miss it?

[TonyMontana]

Hey, back from holiday.

Will read up and make not-so-useless posts by the ends of today.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Tony has done something that is actively bad.

Did you miss it?

Probably. He, RC, and Zoronos have made very little impression on me at all.

I'll reread him after work, but whatever your referring to is going to need to be pretty egregious to get me off the Banakaiwagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey, back from holiday.

Will read up and make not-so-useless posts by the ends of today.

Looking forward to it. I would very much like to lynch you right now.

[Banakai]

I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon

[redFF]

He's done basically nothing to hunt scum, and is showing no desire to have his opinions listened to or pushed.
Between the two at the moment I'd rather vote RedFF.

mate ur on the wagon that i've been the most vocal champion of, so are me and absta scum together or ?

[Zoronos]

He's done basically nothing to hunt scum, and is showing no desire to have his opinions listened to or pushed.
Between the two at the moment I'd rather vote RedFF.

mate ur on the wagon that i've been the most vocal champion of, so are me and absta scum together or ?

I'll address this in detail as I can after work tomorrow, but I covered this like four posts down from the one you quoted.

[Zoronos]

*after work today. Not sure why I typed tomorrow.

[Bulbazoor]

What bad thing did tony do?

[RedCoyote]

Tony has done something that is actively bad.

Did you miss it?

I just reread him in ISO, and I don't see it. I think you're jumping around too much, BBT. You need to focus.

[Banakai]

What bad thing did tony do?

Lurk all day, which I would say usually isn't a scum tell, but in this setup since there is a seer mafia might not want to draw attention to themselves as it can make them a seer target

[TonyMontana]

Pre-submit note: Ugh, its 2:30AM here, and I gotta go to bed. I got about half-way catching up, I'll finish up tomorrow.
I almost dont wanna say it, but my main suspects as of this moment is BBT and banakai.

I will VOTE: BBT for now.

Following are notes that caught my interest during reading up. They will be added as I go along, so comments will mostly not take into consideration later posts.

I see. I'm simply saying that scum would have to be super bad to play in the manner that Boon is playing and I know Boon is not super bad at playing scum..

Interesting, given my "anti-town" vote on boon. Basically, being anti-town is kind of a town tell on boon, according to this?

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

15 pages and that's all you have? Are you kidding me? When you finish your catch up can I get a full reads list please.

This is a peculiar post. I did finish my catch-up shortly after, and I had made several posts after the post in question, which was just what was advertised; a mid-read note.
I don't see how this could escape you, especially given that you follow it up with a vote and wagon-call on me a few posts later.

We'll see if I get to a full reads list today, but if you're curious, I have you down as leaning scum, and not just from this.

People seem to have missed the point I was trying to make here. I don't think it was a "scumslip" about the game setup or anything like that. What I meant was that today the town is looking for three people working together. The scum are only looking for one person they can get a lynch on. It's not a damning statement on its own, but I think it reflects his mindset and when combined with everything else I pointed out is suggestive.

Had to look up #305 on this one. As far as potential scumslips go, it's definitely worth noting. To play devils advocate, the fact that the sentence in question has its share of grammar and spelling mistakes could indicate it just being another of those, but I've seen less speculative scumslip reads.

I just think Red is town. The wagon's he's joined all made sense to me as a townie.

Just a general note here: Can we stop saying "Red", it's confusing as shit.

Also, an FYI, when I'm scum, I think far more, and really plan out my posting.

FYI, when I'm scum, I never get prodded.

Bulbazoor, many of your last posts have been just questions. Do you have thoughts/analysis to add to your questions? It looks like you are active lurking at the moment (which is different to how you were earlier playing):

Doctor Who, can you explain what you got out of the wagon analysis?

How is red causing you to doubt scum read scum?

I did. WHy are you sure tony is scum?

How is he scummy as fudge?

So what are your reads on hasch and myself? Do to Who? I am asking for up dated reads.

I was actually about to make the same comment. I don't like when people only ask for reads or opinions, like that's contributing to the discussion. I'd rather have you lurk, to be honest.
I'm otherwise leaning town on Keyser ATM. I feel he's asking the right questions, and I generally get a town vibe from the way he's asking them.

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

Banakai

(5):

Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee

Boonskiies

(4):

absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390

absta101

(4):

Zoronos, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00)

[Haschel Cedricson]

Tony has done something that is actively bad.

Did you miss it?

Probably. He, RC, and Zoronos have made very little impression on me at all.

I'll reread him after work, but whatever your referring to is going to need to be pretty egregious to get me off the Banakaiwagon.

Yeah, after rereading his ISO either I missed it again or we have different definitions of actively bad.

I did see one line worth bringing up, though:

In post 152, RedCoyote wrote:
I'll let y'all in on a secret... when I am scum, sometimes I get worried about leaving the thread if I think I am in a bad spot. As town, I do not feel as anxious.


Confirmed town, seeing as he would stick around if he was scum.

Assuming this refers to RC, this is a huge leap to make. My thoughts on meta may not be as extreme as those proclaimed in BBT's signature, but I am firm believer that the only useful meta is one that you build yourself and that you should never allow a player to tell you what their own meta is.

I read back over Banakai's ISO this morning, and I'm not seeing overtly scummy behavior. I am not enthused to vote there without a good reason for what I'm missing.

Do you believe that the following exchange is not overtly scummy?

Boon for obvious reasons...

What are those reasons?

Its called a loaded question

That's the one. I, for one, appreciate you reading my posts and helping me out.

Speaking of which, perhaps you could help me out by reading my post that asked you a question on this very page and replying to it.

Well I'm phone posting so I can't give specifics, but his reads seem to move and shift too quickly with no explanation. And he tries to defend himself basically by calling himself a VI and just declaring he is town. I also know that I would never self vote as town as I see no scenario where it would be helpful.

No worries; I'll wait for you to get to a computer.

I fundamentally disagree with your last sentence, by the way.

I assume this means you want more and why do you disagree?

Well I really don't have much to say about boon except what has already been said by me and others, but he appears to be buddying with bbt and with a poor excuse for it too. Also looking at his ISO his last 6 posts were purely defensive and not even the logical kind.

Nah, I'm cool; I find your lack of specifics perfectly acceptawhat the hell is wrong with you of course I want more.

Which reads were you referring to? Give me specific examples.

I disagree with your last sentence because I can see several scenarios where it would be helpful. I suspect we are looking at one of them right now.

Well I understand that, as that is what qualifies as disagreeing with my statement. My question was asking what are these "several scenarious". and which do you suspect?

For starters, there can be mechanic-based ones, although those obviously don't apply in an open setup like this. More importantly, though, is as part of a gambit of some sort, particularly one designed to get reactions from people. Look at Boonskiies's interactions with Absta immediately afterwards; Boonskiies had a plan and knew exactly what he was doing.

Now, can you finally stop stalling and dodging my question and tell me what the "obvious reasons" you voted for Boonskiies are?

Well I really don't have much to say about boon except what has already been said by me and others, but he appears to be buddying with bbt and with a poor excuse for it too. Also looking at his ISO his last 6 posts were purely defensive and not even the logical kind.

Just about this. To be honest everything has already been said and I dont feel the need to go over every one of his posts. I already have said generally why I think he is scum.

No! No you have not! You are underestimating

[Should read overestimating - ed.]

the number of fucks I give about why you generally think he's scum. I want to know SPECIFICALLY why you think he's scum. If your reasons are so "obvious", then surely you can find ONE GODDAMN EXAMPLE to bolster your argument. You say his reads shifted too quickly. WHICH ONES?

[Zoronos]

@Haschel
The downsides of reading in ISO rather than the back and forth.
Ego protection demands that I answer 'No, that's not overtly scummy why should I change my stance in light of new information'.
My first pass thought is that it looks like just a communications breakdown. Unless his brilliant scum strategy is to never give any specifics on his reads, I don't see overt scum there.

I can understand from your chair why you feel it's scummy. Your questions look like reasonable attempts to communicate and Banakai is just failing to respond in expected ways. I'm just not sure irrationality and communications breakdown equates to scum here.
He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

[Haschel Cedricson]

He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

I do indeed.

[Kmd4390]

I don't suppose you're interested in forming a wagon on him?

We can get at least 4 votes by my count.

Nah. Too late for that.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@Haschel
The downsides of reading in ISO rather than the back and forth.
Ego protection demands that I answer 'No, that's not overtly scummy why should I change my stance in light of new information'.
My first pass thought is that it looks like just a communications breakdown. Unless his brilliant scum strategy is to never give any specifics on his reads, I don't see overt scum there.

I can understand from your chair why you feel it's scummy. Your questions look like reasonable attempts to communicate and Banakai is just failing to respond in expected ways. I'm just not sure irrationality and communications breakdown equates to scum here.
He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

Hey Kmd, do you agree with this post? Why or why not?

[absta101]

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

[Zoronos]

He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

I do indeed.

Took me a while to digest that. Basically I understand why you think what you think, but it sounds to me like you're looking for a reason to believe, rather than opinion following information. Which I guess is just a politer way of saying it looks like a tunnel.
It makes sense to me that you are scum reading him, based on the interaction the two of you had, but I'm not sure he's actually scum. (Does this make sense? I'm struggling to phrase this properly to communicate the idea. Basically I'm thinking TvT + a dose of conf bias)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have basically no opinion about Banakai. He doesn't have a ton of content, is a null and I haven't had time to work on sorting him.

Hoping this changes. You really should have a read on someone when they're one of the leading wagons, and if you don't, you should probably do something about that.

The above is the reason I discarded the case. It was not a good case in the first place. Also you seem to be selectively reading my posts, as I also mentioned what I meant by the last quote. At the time of making the case I wouldn't call myself passionate. Afterwatds and looking back at it only then could you call it "passionate". When I made the case I wasn't even sure who I wanted to vote.

But this isn't what you said when you discarded it. You said that Boon had made himself so obviously scum that you felt like you didn't need to post your case. Which is radically different from what you're now claiming.

BBT is striking me as super over the top in his agressiveness, and his attempts to instill himself as the town 'leader' feel like a way to suppress dissenting opinion. he just seems to be a control freak who thinks he's better than the rest of us tbh

You're scum reading me based on play-style and you should stop doing that.

So you started a BS wagon on me because you didn't know it was an open setup!?!?

No...where the hell did you get that from?

Zoro is busy looking for associative tells on D1, which is kind of fake scumhunting, imo. Further, I think his points against redFF are lazy and uninspired.

I'm not seeing this at all RC; can you expand on it? I don't get your town read on the redff slot.

I had the name wrong, it wasn't

R

C it was the

H

C wagon. This is the post.

they're not paying attention to. For example, should we lynch Haschel at any point and he flips scum, I will look back at RVS and be

Wow, what a great way to misrep somebody by completely taking their post out of context. Keyser asked me what I thought it could mean, I answered by providing an example.

I was thinking you were suffering from some serious conf bias on my slot but I'm really starting to doubt that now.

1) The case against Woody was based on him not backreading before posting, which you yourself have noted isn't scummy anymore. It ended up being a wagon that just let the scum know a claim.
2) The flurry of votes that it picked up, again for no good reason.
3) The accidental L-1 vote, it could have been a hammer had there been another vote
4) That all this happened by post 168 - how much info was out there by then? How many people hadn't posted anything of substance? Scum would have loved a Day 1 mislynch with the town having almost nothing to go on.

This isn't rocket science BBT.

OK, so I asked you about the

timing

of the wagon and you go ahead and give me your

analysis

of the wagon which in no way answers my question. I mean, I guess *4* answers the question but the obvious flip-side is that if the wagon was picking up steam and it was town who was jumping on; why would scum feel the need to get involved?

Fast moving early wagons are generally not considered pro-town so it's dangerous for scum to hop on, especially if they don't have sound reasoning. So, yeah, I don't get your timing comment at all.

You didn't comment on the main part of what I wrote. According to your value system, woody was scummy for not being aware of what happened in the game for a lack of back reading. That would make redFF's L-1 vote on Woody (where he didn't even know it was L-1, it could have been L-0) even scummier. You've clearly been pushing for a Woody lynch, yet redFF does something scummier and it hardly pinged your radar.

Town would go with their strongest scum read. One way of catching scum is observing when they don't play consistently.

It would seem the majority of your read on me is based on the assumption that Redff is scum; which I'm sure I don't need to tell you is a horrible way to scum hunt. Especially if you're going to try and lynch me first based off of it.

[Zoronos]

Hoping this changes. You really should have a read on someone when they're one of the leading wagons, and if you don't, you should probably do something about that.

Continue reading and you will find the answer to this question!