Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Zoronos]

VOTE: TonyMontana

839 - I want to talk about this post a tad.
First, it uses 'peculiar' as a synonym for scummy. He's trying to call BBT's 580 scummy (he attacks it, says he doesn't see how BBT could think what he wrote in it, etc) without actually outright calling BBT scum for making it.

His response to 596 seems incredibly fence-sitting. Rather than outright agree or disagree (or to discuss the merits) he throws water on it in part of his response (see the note about grammar and spelling) and half agrees (see the part about saying its worth noting and that he's seen less speculative scumslip reads).

I really dislike him asking Bulb to lurk. Asking questions is far better than nothing, imo. I think Keyser has his analysis of the quoted posts from Bulb correct - Questions without analysis / results is a form of active lurking. Bulb posting is allowing the rest of us to get a read. Asking him to lurk makes it harder to generate that read, not easier. Tony is also phrasing it in a way to suggest that it's an annoyance, rather than a way to determine alignment (which, as noted, I think it is). He doesn't like it; he doesn't find it scummy / towny / etc, he just gets annoyed by it. That suggests to me that he's not interested in understanding Bulb's alignment.

[Boonskiies]

Absta/banakai/tony scum team. Woot woot. Game solved.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find it hypocritical (therefore scummy) for someone to say someone is is scummy for doing X when they too are doing X.

Being a hypocrite is not scummy.

My main issue with the whole thing now is how hard BBT rode Woody, but given another example of not knowing the situation (your woody vote) BBT didn't go nearly as hard on you. Does this part make sense to you? Town BBT has to lynch all of the scum, but scum-BBT just needs to lynch one townie a day.

OK, so why doesn't scum!BBT push Redff's 'obviously bad vote'. That would have been a pretty easy push for me to make, no?

Like, I thought your whole 'BBT is scum for ignoring Redff's awful vote on Woody' was based on Redff being scum. Now it seems you have no explanation other than it was scummy of me to ignore such an obviously bad vote even though you think the vote come from town.

Can you clarify? What are my scum motivations for ignoring the vote?

the boonskies wagon is terrible and has scummy looking players on it

This.

I'm gonna do a bunch of reading, look at this banakai wagon

Speaking of reviewing wagons, how did your review of the Absta wagon go?

I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

What is scummy about trying to start a new wagon?

cause scum aint that obviously bad, it's been a while since ive looked at woody's posts tho id have to go check to give you examples

Well, that's just an awful reason to start town reading someone. Sometimes, scum are just bad.
#

Something which unnerves me, was BlueBloodedToffee's vote and unvote on absta101. He is now emphasing that we have enough to go on for D1 and is happy to jump on one of the leading wagons (personally, I think he has concentrated more on absta101, TonyMontana and redFF):

Is anyone arguing against this? I don't know why you have posted that; it's quite obvious who I have spent the day focusing on.

Uncomfortable zone:
Bulbazoor
Boonskiies
BlueBloodedToffee

Uncomfortable zone:
Banakai
Tony Montana
absta101

Even though I believe a Boonskiies flip would tell us alot about other players, I do not want to lynch a player I town-lean (weak) read. But I would prefer a Boonskiies/Banakai lynch than a no lynch. I currently do not like the Banakai lynch because I fear possible opportunistic scum-play by BlueBloodedToffee and absta101.

Couple of things;

Can you clarify the 'uncomfortable zone'? I interpreted it as 'lean scum' and 'scum reading' sections but I'm obviously wrong if you're weak town reading Boon. This is far too ambiguous. Secondly, it would appear I can change the titles of your 'reads' to 'In no danger of getting lynched Today' and 'Possibility of getting lynched Today.'

I'm willing to go with VOTE: absta101. I'd rather see BBT hang, but I was the only one on his wagon.

If there was an example in a dictionary of an opportunistic vote; this would be it.

The ONLY mention of Absta in your ISO before this vote is the sentence where you're accusing him of scum slipping, which quite frankly, is absurd. I see nothing wrong with that sentence.

You have then

added

reasoning onto your read in order to try and justify it. I'm back to thinking this slot is scum.

IMO, TonyMontana has got to catch-up with the thread first ,

then

we smash his back doors in

Except for he could be lurking

because

he is drawing no attention?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Probably. He, RC, and Zoronos have made very little impression on me at all.

Is there a reason you have done nothing to remedy this?

I just reread him in ISO, and I don't see it. I think you're jumping around too much, BBT. You need to focus.

His vote on the Boon wagon is scummy as fuck, wtf RC? How did you miss that? Like, look at the post he votes for Boon and the reasoning he gives for voting him then come back and tell me you don't have a problem with it.

Interesting, given my "anti-town" vote on boon. Basically, being anti-town is kind of a town tell on boon, according to this?

I don't believe I said Boon was anti-town. Why is it 'interesting'?

This is a peculiar post. I did finish my catch-up shortly after, and I had made several posts after the post in question, which was just what was advertised; a mid-read note.
I don't see how this could escape you, especially given that you follow it up with a vote and wagon-call on me a few posts later.

Yeah, how peculiar that I had a serious problem with you reading 15 pages, coming out of it with one read (a couple more presented later on?) and then hopping on a popular (read: easy) wagon by voting Boon.

I wonder why I would possibly have a problem with that.

The rest of this post doesn't really say much.

Nah. Too late for that.

It really isn't.

Absta/banakai/tony scum team. Woot woot. Game solved.

Gonna vote Tony then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Tony

[Zoronos]

So, I presume this means you agree with my analysis of Tony's post? Any specific thoughts / comments / critiques?

[absta101]

@BBT

cause scum aint that obviously bad, it's been a while since ive looked at woody's posts tho id have to go check to give you examples

Well, that's just an awful reason to start town reading someone. Sometimes, scum are just bad.
#

This makes zero sense coming from you when you have a town read on Boon because he wouldn't play this bad as scum:

I see. I'm simply saying that

scum would have to be super bad to play in the manner that Boon is playing

and I know

Boon is not super bad at playing scum

:

Your reasons are weak and based on surface level actions.

This is quite scummy, your reasons are not genuine.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, I presume this means you agree with my analysis of Tony's post? Any specific thoughts / comments / critiques?

It means I would like to lynch Tony Today. Boon, Keyser and Kmd have expressed suspicion on this slot.

Let's get a wagon rolling.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Absta, you clearly do not understand my position regarding Boon. I feel very comfortable in my ability to read him; he is town.

[Zoronos]

So, I presume this means you agree with my analysis of Tony's post? Any specific thoughts / comments / critiques?

It means I would like to lynch Tony Today. Boon, Keyser and Kmd have expressed suspicion on this slot.

Let's get a wagon rolling.

I already voted him, but this doesn't really answer my question.

[Banakai]

I kind of fear that if tony IS lurking scum, that if we don't lynch him today we might not get around to it (until maybe a lylo) because we already have like 4 suspects and only more things are going to come up especially with a doctor and seer in the setup.

[absta101]

Absta, you clearly do not understand my position regarding Boon. I feel very comfortable in my ability to read him; he is town.

Yeah, you're making no sense.

I mean, why even tell me that Boon is playing way too scummy/bad to be scum if you believe using such logic is

"awful"

? You have contradicted yourself in the most scummy way possible. I don't see why town-you would ever try to push someone as town using logic that you think is

"awful"

.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Zoro, I answered your question by stating what it means.

[Zoronos]

Absta - I am missing the connecting logic here.
How has BBT contradicted himself, and why is the contradiction scummy?

Explain it like I'm an idiot, because I feel like an idiot for repeatedly not understanding what you're trying to convey.

[Bulbazoor]

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

At 852, BBt is making no sense right now. He calls Doc Who vote on absta opportunistic? Why is it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like people aren't even reading my posts.

This game is really fucking me off at the minute.

[RedCoyote]

You're being obnoxiously enigmatic at times. Yeah, the Boon vote isn't great, but it's understandable. Further, I can't blame TM for voting Boon. He's votable. He makes himself votable. Now, if his vote contradicts something else he said, okay, now maybe we can talk. Otherwise, I don't really see it as particularly scummy, no.

Banakai is the better vote today.

[absta101]

@Zoro

Absta - I am missing the connecting logic here.
How has BBT contradicted himself, and why is the contradiction scummy?

Explain it like I'm an idiot, because I feel like an idiot for repeatedly not understanding what you're trying to convey.

Redff says person X is

too scummy to be scum

and therefore they are VI TOWN.
BBT says, that's an awful reason to call someone town.
BBT told me earlier that Boon cannot be scum (and that he is town) because otherwise it would mean he is playing really bad as scum.

He used the same logic as Redff is using but he just told Redff that using that logic is awful. This means that his reason for seeing Boon as town cannot be genuine. Having a non-genuine read on someone is inherently scummy.

[RedCoyote]

Also, BBT, 570 is a good example of Zoro's poor offense against redFF. 470 is a good example of him trying to set up lynches rather than scumhunt. Big difference between those two things.

In regards to why I think redFF is town, his stance on Boonskiies is well-received and you can see him arrive at his read using questions, reactions, thought and intuition. The townieness bleeds off of his posts here. 176 is a good example of a post that's just all around good. Pressure, questions, examples... I just really read this post and this slot as one that is trying to figure the game out. His absta case in general, whether you agree with it or not, is fair and I think it comes from a good place.

[absta101]

@Bulb

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

At 852, BBt is making no sense right now. He calls Doc Who vote on absta opportunistic? Why is it?

Why are you quoting me for?

Also of course the Doctor who vote on me is opportunistic. Just LOOK AT IT. Look at his reasons for voting me.
Look at my response to his vote on me. I go over why it's bad.

[absta101]

@Zoro

Absta - I am missing the connecting logic here.
How has BBT contradicted himself, and why is the contradiction scummy?

Explain it like I'm an idiot, because I feel like an idiot for repeatedly not understanding what you're trying to convey.

BBT told me earlier that Boon is playing too scummy/bad to be scum and therefore he is town.
Redff says person X is

too scummy to be scum

and therefore they are VI TOWN.
BBT says, that's an awful reason to call someone town.


He used the same logic as Redff is using but he just told Redff that using that logic is awful. This means that his reason for seeing Boon as town cannot be genuine. Having a non-genuine read on someone is inherently scummy.

EBWOP
This should be somewhat easier to understand.

[Bulbazoor]

Wrong quote. I did not even intend for a quote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, the Boon vote isn't great, but it's understandable. Further, I can't blame TM for voting Boon. He's votable. He makes himself votable.

And you're also OK with his lack of reads/game analysis I assume?

Also, BBT, 570 is a good example of Zoro's poor offense against redFF. 470 is a good example of him trying to set up lynches rather than scumhunt. Big difference between those two things.

In regards to why I think redFF is town, his stance on Boonskiies is well-received and you can see him arrive at his read using questions, reactions, thought and intuition. The townieness bleeds off of his posts here. 176 is a good example of a post that's just all around good. Pressure, questions, examples... I just really read this post and this slot as one that is trying to figure the game out. His absta case in general, whether you agree with it or not, is fair and I think it comes from a good place.

We're at complete opposite ends this game, it's like we're reading a different game to one another. I don't think this has happened before and I'm trying to figure out why it's happening.

[Bulbazoor]

Zoro, why are you not pushing as hard as before?

[Zoronos]

Lack of time.
Catching back up at work and off after 4 days away.