Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[RedCoyote]

I don't think we're all that different. You're being a little paranoid, BBT. It's D1. You need to let your heart have more of a say in your reads. Not controlling interest, of course, but just relax a bit more and try stressing out a bit less.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I have a right to be. Usually, I can work out whether you're town fairly quickly and we can start to sort the game out and I'm not getting that feeling at all. I feel like we disagree on a number of reads and I'm having serious trouble in understanding why.

I also discovered recently that I have serious trouble reading people who I enjoy playing with so I'm trying to fix that and not just automatically town read someone because I enjoy playing with them. Maybe I'm trying too hard and that's why you think I'm coming across as obnoxious; I don't mean to be.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, can you just confirm that you're happy with the content/game analysis that Tony has provided in the game so far, especially in his first catch up posts.

[RedCoyote]

Not really, but he's not the worst offender, so I don't let him bother me right now. I won't defend him, but I'm not out to get him at the moment.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tony is easily one of the worst voters on any of the major wagons. If not THE worst.

Aside from that, I feel like he has provided 3 or 4 reads and that's it. It's also impossible to understand how he got the reads, when they developed and why because he has barely posted anything. Like, I have no idea where he stands on the game as a whole.

Without reading his ISO, I know he is scum reading Boon and myself and town reading Keyser. That's it, I can't remember anything else he has posted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

Just gonna go ahead and quote this for everyone.

This is what Tony had after 15 pages.

Let that sink in. Then vote him.

[TonyMontana]

In post 152, RedCoyote wrote:
I'll let y'all in on a secret... when I am scum, sometimes I get worried about leaving the thread if I think I am in a bad spot. As town, I do not feel as anxious.


Confirmed town, seeing as he would stick around if he was scum.

Assuming this refers to RC, this is a huge leap to make. My thoughts on meta may not be as extreme as those proclaimed in BBT's signature, but I am firm believer that the only useful meta is one that you build yourself and that you should never allow a player to tell you what their own meta is.

I was being sarcastic, essentially mocking RC for proclaiming meta on himself, and lamenting the practice of self-meta in general.

839 - I want to talk about this post a tad.
First, it uses 'peculiar' as a synonym for scummy. He's trying to call BBT's 580 scummy (he attacks it, says he doesn't see how BBT could think what he wrote in it, etc) without actually outright calling BBT scum for making it.

I find this analysis/summary peculiar. First off, you're pretty much making up that peculiar is used as a synonym for scummy by me. Whether I'm trying to characterize BBT as scummy is fair for you to question. I don't think I was being coy about me questioning the validity in *his* questions, and in turn questioning his motives. I even ended the comment by saying that leaning scum on him, in part because of this post. Was i supposed to say post ergo scum?

His response to 596 seems incredibly fence-sitting. Rather than outright agree or disagree (or to discuss the merits) he throws water on it in part of his response (see the note about grammar and spelling) and half agrees (see the part about saying its worth noting and that he's seen less speculative scumslip reads).

I don't know what to say to this. I mean, you're more or less paraphrasing my post. Otherwise, I plead guilty, I was fence-sitting. Again, I'm left wondering if I was supposed to come out of it either proclaiming it to be hogwash, or sure proof of scum. I only intended to comment on posts I found interesting. I also intended to conclude the comments with more substance, but alas...

I really dislike him asking Bulb to lurk.

I'm just gonna stop you there. I didn't ask Bulb to lurk, and if you think that we have either communication issues, or you are being purposefully obtuse to misrepresent me.

I have to give you credit, though, you at least tried to justify your vote with reasoning, which is more than I've seen from BBT, who seems more pre-occupied with getting people to join the wagon, rather than giving people reasons to do so.

Zoro, I'd be interested in getting a Tony wagon started if you're up for it?

It's difficult to get people to vote for someone who is lurking though so it's a difficult wagon to push. Some help would be appreciated.

I don't suppose you're interested in forming a wagon on him?

We can get at least 4 votes by my count.

Absta/banakai/tony scum team. Woot woot. Game solved.

Gonna vote Tony then?

So, I presume this means you agree with my analysis of Tony's post? Any specific thoughts / comments / critiques?

It means I would like to lynch Tony Today. Boon, Keyser and Kmd have expressed suspicion on this slot.

Let's get a wagon rolling.

BBT, the wagon just doesnt seem to be rolling fast enough, why don't you try lubricating the wheels with something more than "he hasnt been posting enough, and I dont like what he's posted"

You seem more interested in rolling wagons than with finding scum to fill the wagons with.

P-edit: It was a note, not a conclusion. LET THAT SINK IN.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

One note.

In 15 pages.

Good job.

[TonyMontana]

Without reading his ISO, I know he is scum reading Boon and myself and town reading Keyser. That's it, I can't remember anything else he has posted.

You can't remember, because you dont actually give shit whether or not you can read me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey, how about that reads list?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you can manage reasoning as well that would be just fantastic.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, the wagon just doesnt seem to be rolling fast enough, why don't you try lubricating the wheels with something more than "he hasnt been posting enough, and I dont like what he's posted"

You got me. You post so little that all I have is 'catch up was lacking content/analysis' and 'vote on Boon wagon was opportunistic/scummy.'

But hey, that's enough for me.

[RedCoyote]

I don't think that was the total sum of his reactions, BBT. Those were, like, two separate statements. That's borderline dishonest of you to frame it that way.

[RedCoyote]

RE: 880

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry what? I literally quoted the post and posted it.

How is that dishonest?

[RedCoyote]

I don't want to speak for TM. He should speak for himself. I'm only speaking on my interpretation of his words. He said he had a note about Boonskiies after reading 15 pages. He didn't say, "here's my only comment on the last fifteen pages", as you are implying he did.

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

Banakai

(4):

Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies

Boonskiies

(4):

absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390

absta101

(3):

redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Tony Montana

(2):

Zoronos, BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-07 13:30:00)

[Haschel Cedricson]

^^

@Mod: TonyMontana is voting for BBT.

Probably. He, RC, and Zoronos have made very little impression on me at all.

Is there a reason you have done nothing to remedy this?

I'm working on it.

In the meantime, Tony, I'm going to field the same question to you that I asked Kmd in 845:

@Haschel
The downsides of reading in ISO rather than the back and forth.
Ego protection demands that I answer 'No, that's not overtly scummy why should I change my stance in light of new information'.
My first pass thought is that it looks like just a communications breakdown. Unless his brilliant scum strategy is to never give any specifics on his reads, I don't see overt scum there.

I can understand from your chair why you feel it's scummy. Your questions look like reasonable attempts to communicate and Banakai is just failing to respond in expected ways. I'm just not sure irrationality and communications breakdown equates to scum here.
He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

Hey Kmd, do you agree with this post? Why or why not?

[Shinobi]

^^

@Mod: TonyMontana is voting for BBT.

I ignored the vote due to it being placed in a text box; I thought it was somewhat unclear as to whether or not it was an actual vote.

I'm also going to step in now and ask that people don't do this anymore because I'm not combing through special boxes/spoiler tags just to find your votes. Make them obvious pls. I can think of situations where this type of voting could be problematic and I'd rather just kibosh it right now and tell you guys to avoid it in the future.

[Doctor Who]

pre-emptive prod dodge, dealing with sick kids tonight

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm only speaking on my interpretation of his words. He said he had a note about Boonskiies after reading 15 pages. He didn't say, "here's my only comment on the last fifteen pages", as you are implying he did.

Right, I mean, I quoted the whole post so people can interpret it in their own way. He might as well have said he had nothing else to comment on because that's all he provided; you don't find it strange that after 15 pages he thought he better make a note about Boon and nobody else? Why Boon? Was there nobody else doing anything scummy? Was there nothing else note-worthy during that 15 pages?

Come on RC, you're better than this. I want you to know that when I lynch Tony and he flips scum, I'm lynching you straight after.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Here are Tony posts after catching up;

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

This post has already been spoke about.

I think the person who vowed himself out of the game was onto something....

VOTE: Boonskiies

If you ain't scum, you're anti-town

snip

This post is his vote on Boon and some really weak reasoning behind it. Like, what was wrong with Boon coming in and stating he had scum reads on Absta and Keyser? (he criticizes the reads but doesn't say why they're bad) Then he talks about Boon quickly switching reads and criticizes a post Boon makes where he states why he town reads me, that he leans-town on Woody, he has a lot of nulls, Bulba is being weird (something is off about him) and that Absta/Keyser are his main scum reads.

I thought that was an okay post to judge where Boon was at and Tony uses this post to accuse him of saying nothing but looking busy - that doesn't hold up for me at all. The only decent point he made was Boon joining the RC wagon after Keyser joined it (but I think Boon explained this?)

After this post, everything he posts is reactionary. He is answering people's questions,

not

providing his own analysis. So the

only

thing we got from his catch up was that Boon was scum. That's it.

15 pages and one read.

This needs to by lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - How am I being opportunistic?

These 3 comments are possible opportunistic scum-play:

I'm saying there is only 5 days left; if you start splitting up the wagons into 3 instead the two (major ones) there are now, we'll probably end up with a no-lynch or a rushed lynch. If you don't want to vote Boon or Banakai, that's fine, just

don't try to pull people off the wagons at this stage

.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time.

I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon

this close to the deadline.

I'm fine with lynching either

Boon or Banakai

and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

I sensed you were trying to keep the focus on Banakai and Boonskiies - why can't there be another wagon on other people? People should be encouraged to vote who they want to vote for and not be forced to vote on the two leading wagons. I admittedly don't have a strong scum-read of those two slots so I possibly might have a biased view.


Here were my early worries about your posts:

Vote: Bulbazoor. He knows why.

Explain your vote on bulb.
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

I see this as an unnatural response during RVS. I associate unnaturalness with scum.

Keyser is really active, I doubt scum would be playing like he is now.

Thanks for the town-read... but I felt your initial reasons to town-read me weren't strong enough. Activity is not alignment indicative. Admittedly, you

later

say I was really active 'scum-hunting'. I don't like players giving out easy town-reads.

I'd say the most scummy thing about Woody is that all he has been doing is defending himself rather than trying to find scum.

Stating your reason to join the WoodyWoodpecker wagon, while BlueBloodedToffee was attacking him. (Time defending yourself > time scum hunting) while being attacked is not alignment-indicative.

Alright, i'm back. For starters, I don't think you need to be making full cases for why certain players seem town (@Keyser).

I disagreed. I wish everyone would post full cases why they think others are town/null/scum. We will then re-read these reads when someone flips.

[Let me catch-up with the thread].

[Keyser Söze]

Catching up, Part One:

Finally, it seemed like he started off acting like town in his first sentence, but in his second sentence I believe he identifies himself as scum. Why complain about making the game harder for

everyone else

(as in not town) if he is town? I don't believe I got a response to my question either.

You should realise by spamming all these small posts you are hurting town. It makes the game harder to follow for everyone else.

Boonskiies is hurting town, but then who are the "everyone else" in your second sentence?

In absta101 defence, I speak about town in the third-person sometimes.

Keyser, why is redff continuing to push absta "too obvous"? I personally don't see it as telling one way or the other.

There's also the scum motivation of creating panic in the town as the deadline approaches so we rush lynch someone.

I will need to re-read redFF's posts (who I currently town-read). At the moment, I do not think he is trying to create panic, by voting someone other than Banakai/Boonskiies.

Can you clarify the 'uncomfortable zone'? I interpreted it as 'lean scum' and 'scum reading' sections but I'm obviously wrong if you're weak town reading Boon. This is far too ambiguous. Secondly, it would appear I can change the titles of your 'reads' to 'In no danger of getting lynched Today' and 'Possibility of getting lynched Today.'

I forgot to add parenthesis on these sub-groups. The first was: I feel uncomfortable with their slot, but would not like to lynch them D1, the second was: I feel uncomfortable with their slot, and they are on my D1 lynch pool list.

[absta101]

@Keyser - What you showed is not opportunistic at all; i've been on Boon since he started being scummy. I'm simply trying to tell you guys that we are so close to the deadline that we can't risk a no-lynch.