Newbie 1633: The Daily Show-A Retrospective - GAME OVER

[Dierfire]

@Draynth

I still think Necargoface is the scummiest person in the game. I outlined my initial case in 93.
For those who don't see this slot as scummy, could you explain why?

I sort of already answered this, but I want it noted: I agree that Necargo's behavior is suspicious but I'd still rather see Honest's slot (Mathilda now) flip first.

[Dierfire]

@Mathilda

I don't disagree. I'm leaning scum on Yuri as well, but I always question myself and try to re-evaluate my conclusions to see if there is something that I am missing. I suppose for me the main problem with her posts has been how they have been light on content. There's no real sense that she's actively trying to find out who the Mafia are. It's easy to just question everything without any actually adding anything. It just adds to the confusion and distracts town. I would vote for her.

I feel that Draynth, BBT, Dierfier, Lowercase are town. I am neutral on you, dwlee99 and necargoface. I need to examine all your posts in more detail.

I find your stated justification for suspecting Yuriko (because she has been light on content) to be troubling coming from your slot. Your 205 sounded less confident than you do now, and your posts between have primarily concerned arguing against a proposal for a policy lynch that actually didn't get much traction. What has caused the change in your read? Also, what is the basis of your reads on Necargo and Draynth?

[Dierfire]

@All

I will have limited access on Thursday and Friday of this week (the day after tomorrow and the day after that). I will return to normal levels of access over the weekend and will be around over the day leading up to the deadline, although I'm not certain that I'll be around in the last few hours before the deadline.

The deadline is drawing closer. I think that it would be good for anyone not currently casting a vote to either cast a vote or, if this is otherwise inadvisable (if the target is already at L-1, for example), to clearly state their preference for a vote.

[YurikoJasmine]

@mod:

VC please?

I'm good with my vote.

[YurikoJasmine]

ISO time on train.

Lowercase is pretty obviously town

Necargoface pretty much responded to nothing but the issue on his "RV" (or not) on honest. This in itself is scummy. He only mentioned one (seemingly weak) town read.

Mathilda seems town in general but she's also taking the comfortable stance of "yeah Yuri is making good reasons for her scummy actions but I still scum read her anyway" which is slightly eye-brow raising. (You also didn't answer why my activity level was relevant in mentioning that two other players were inactive)

Gratuitous's standpoint on me is void. 54 was posted in 7am in the morning in which I wasn't actually awake. I went back to sleep, waking up at 11am realizing I didn't vote him. Also even if I were awake at the time 54 was made I probably would have let him explain himself first since it was his first post.

Dwlee came in complaining about the "low post rate" on ms and "completely forgets" he was playing. Accusing me of OMGUSing him instead of defending himself or actually scum hunting makes him scummy as hell. He then quoted an irrelevant post judging why lowercase was scum reading him for OMGUSing me, accusing that I OMGUS'd him.

My views on the five replacements. I'm almost at my office so that's it. Also sorry for saying there were four newbies, there are actually five newbies. But my point is the same that since all of them are replaced they can't all be scum.

My vote is happy at where it is now, and the most probably scum team is dwlee and necargoface so far before I ISO the other three more expedited player. I think BBT is null-townish by impression, but I can't recall anything from dier and dray. Will hopefully check later today.

[YurikoJasmine]

** I onviously meant to say the three more experienced players

[necargoface]

I still think Necargoface is the scummiest person in the game. I outlined my initial case in 93.
In 137 he says '

Honest's vote was not clearly an RV

and was at a time where RV's are becoming more uncommon

'.
The underlined is blatantly not true. There was 0 way to tell whether the vote was an RV or not, and the end result doesn't matter because it doesn't justify the scum read in the first place.

I hope that you read this right. You do realize that it is "Honest's vote was

not clearly

and RV" , not "Honest's vote was

clearly not

an RV. I did not say that there was no possible way in all of the world that it was an RV, I said that it wasn't clear as to which it was, and was during a time where RV's were becoming more uncommon.

[necargoface]

Necargoface pretty much responded to nothing but the issue on his "RV" (or not) on honest. This in itself is scummy. He only mentioned one (seemingly weak) town read.

Once people stop mking a bbig deal about it, I will move on to other things.

[Mathilda]

@Draynth

I still think Necargoface is the scummiest person in the game. I outlined my initial case in 93.
For those who don't see this slot as scummy, could you explain why?

I sort of already answered this, but I want it noted: I agree that Necargo's behavior is suspicious but I'd still rather see Honest's slot (Mathilda now) flip first.

Any particular reasons why or are you just going to cast suspicion on one slot? I can see why you'd be suspicious of Honest. He didn't say much. He didn't justify himself. He basically floundered. But I have been trying to actively hunt scum. I'm not just trying to appear to hunt scum.

[Mathilda]

@Mathilda

I find your stated justification for suspecting Yuriko (because she has been light on content) to be troubling coming from your slot. Your 205 sounded less confident than you do now, and your posts between have primarily concerned arguing against a proposal for a policy lynch that actually didn't get much traction. What has caused the change in your read? Also, what is the basis of your reads on Necargo and Draynth?

You say it is troubling but don't say why. This could be seen as a way of making someone seem suspicious by colouring other people's opinions without giving any particular justification.

It's natural to start off sceptical, to then gather more evidence over time and start to form a more concrete opinion. That happens when you gather evidence. I do not see why it is troubling to suspect someone because they are light on content. Honest may have been light on content but I have not. Yuriko has been light on content but now she's posted #229 where she has actually put out a read list and put forward conjectures that we can evaluate, so that helps swing her a little more townwards.

I don't have any confidence in any of my reads. I'm a scientist in real life and I prefer to be more sure of my conclusions. It's also a profession where you have to constantly question yourself. I have seen people perform McCarthy style witch hunts in this game. Someone does something that could be construed as slightly scummy, another player then looks for more evidence but without taking into account their own confirmation bias. By the end of the day phase everything that the player does or says is construed as being scummy regardless of whether it contradicts previous accusations, they get lynched and flip town.

Yes I did instinctively argue against a policy lynch. But if you notice, after thinking through all the reasons why some newbies may quit,

iff

lowercase is right (and I don't know that he is but he seems sure that the stats show policy lynches of newbie replacements show a slight tendency to hitting scum) then I have only ever argued using this as further evidence for lynching someone. Not as a reason in itself to lynch someone. I have not changed my mind on this. Are you accusing me of fluffing by talking about general game mechanics with regard to policy lynches? If so then my answer to this is that I am concerned that by only considering a subset of slots that we may be ignoring more salient data that can be gleaned from this game.

As for the basis of my reads on Draynth and Necargo. The general impression that I have is that Draynth is actively scum hunting whereas necargoface is not. Yes, people keep coming back to the whole RV business, but that doesn't mean to say that you can't move the topic on by yourself and start questioning other people.

In the absence of any contradictions or anything overtly scummy, I'm basing my reads on how actively people seem to be scum hunting. Do they look like they are trying to figure it out? Do they look like scum trying to give the appearance of scum hunting by questioning everything and not putting their necks on the line? Can you suggest anything else I could be doing to hunt scum? I would be happy to hear any suggestions that you may have.

I need to look at dwlee's posts first before making a judgement on him. I will do that today if I have time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

As for Yuriko, I agree that her behavior looks pretty scummy. For whatever brownie posts it's worth, I also noticed that her dwlee vote was a transparent attempt to redirect pressure. She could easily be scum; I wouldn't be upset if we lynched her. I'm not willing to commit to it at this point.

Can you expand on this? What did you find scummy about Yuri?

Upon my first read over, the player who has stuck out the most to me in a bad way is YurikoJasmine.
I don't like the sequence at #54 & #60, where she calls Necargo out for putting Honest at L-1 in #54 (never mind the fact she was part of an even earlier L-1 wagon, and didn't say anything about that one), but then waits 4+ hours until posts #60 to attach some flimsy rational and make the vote. This isn't progression of a read, it was testing the air at #54, and then waiting until after Draynth and Dierfire also pressure the same thing before placing the vote.

Additionally, her posts at #98 & #99 are strange as well, as in #98 she says she would not have voted Honest if he hadn't already been L-1, but then doubtcasts Honest in the next post (#99).

Additionally I concur with BBT's #153.

VOTE: YurikoJasmine

This is a good post with solid reasoning. I'm really not seeing your problem with it LC.

I've been through all the pages now looking specifically at Yuriko's posts. What she says about being a non-native speaker and posting from a phone do hold up to scrutiny.

snipped

So for that I can excuse Yuriko's short one liners that could be deemed evasive and committal. If I was posting in German I would be doing the same thing even with a keyboard.

I am concerned though about her comment regarding the two of us. The OP says that there are two Mafia. It could be a freudian slip (very easy to do in mafia and I have done it myself). Her post #111 isn't particularly convincing when she claimed she was referring to people that had not posted or were inactive. She herself has been quite active since the beginning of the game (posts 5, 8, 21, 28, 29, 34, 48, 54, 60, 70, 71, 72, 73, 97, 98, 99, 101, 111, 113, 135, 143, 143, 144, 149 and 157)

Mathilda, after all these words I'm not even sure on your read on Yuri? Can you state it for me? Also, can you explain why you chose to ISO Yuri first and why (as far as I can tell) you haven't ISO'd anyone else?

This is one reason I'm not crazy about lynching Yuriko; I'm just not sure I buy that her behavior is strongly indicative of scum, even though I see where her detractors are coming from.

I don't feel like this fits in with your post that I quoted above. Is your read changing on Yuri? If so, why?

Gratuitous replaced in, and immediately voted the most popular wagon while reiterating points that had already been made in the thread and making no other contribution. At the very least, this is not something that should escape scrutiny.

@BBT: Do either of the other votes on the Yuriko wagon bother you? They both look like they were cast under suspicious circumstances to me.

Except Grat's 162 was solid, so joining an 'easy' wagon with solid reasoning is not scummy at all.

I am beginning to become suspicious of Lee though. Looking forward to seeing some more from that slot.

Mostly I just don't trust the sort of things we're talking about with Yuriko.

Again, this isn't fitting in with what you have previously said as you said yourself that Yuri's behaviour was scummy. I really don't like your read progression on her and your position regarding the wagon.

The other things she did make about as much sense as either alignment, so I see why scum would do them, but I don't really see why town wouldn't.

Wording has caught my attention here; can you also see Yuri doing those things as town?

As for the second point, no it isn't the same as either alignment. ZS did not seem uncomfortable making posts at first, nor did he express difficulty getting reads, but ultimately that seems like the most likely reason he replaced out. That would imply scum.

No, what you're doing is speculating on why Zero replaced out and then using your speculation as reasoning for why that slot is scum.

I'll agree that Yuriko has been posting in a suspicious manner recently. I'll take a look at that in a bit.

Making note of this to check if you did it.

What change of story are you talking about

I'm going to expand on this when I finish catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Calling someone stupid extremely sarcastically, what a town-read I get from that. :O

Anything else to contribute?

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

We're all just reaching in the dark at the moment trying to find anything to incriminate someone no matter how minor. Yuriko has plausible explanations for everything counting against her (the slip up with 'us', short posts because she is on a phone and not a native speaker). I would be interested to see if there was anything definite against her such as a contradiction or her story changing.

At the moment the most damning thing about her posts is that you can look at them and say that she hasn't really done any scum hunting. If she was scum then she would do well with the posts that she has made to just give the appearance of playing at town. That in itself is actually worthy of being lynched. But can we make that same accusation about other players on here to the same extent? What do the rest of you think?

This post is wishy-washy with your read on Yuri? Can you state it clearly?

Also, Yuri admitted that she asked that question to the wrong replacement, so yeah, you reposting that isn't great. You defend Yuri stating she has plausible explanations for what she is being accused of and then state that you think she might be scum because she isn't scum hunting. Can I assume you think she is scum and would vote her?

all four newbies have been replaced (/meh). They can't all be scum, so your post is basically void unless you can come up with a way to distinguish the four replacements

I'm interested in why you're aiming this at Mathilda when LC is the one pushing for lynching replacements.

More because I'm starting to see that dwlee is ridiculously scummy than anything else.

On another note, what do people think about dwlee. Imo, pretty poor posting and not a lot of it.

Yeah, I'm starting to see this. Lee is looking like a good vote.

I don't disagree. I'm leaning scum on Yuri as well, but I always question myself and try to re-evaluate my conclusions to see if there is something that I am missing. I suppose for me the main problem with her posts has been how they have been light on content. There's no real sense that she's actively trying to find out who the Mafia are. It's easy to just question everything without any actually adding anything. It just adds to the confusion and distracts town. I would vote for her.

I feel that Draynth, BBT, Dierfier, Lowercase are town. I am neutral on you, dwlee99 and necargoface. I need to examine all your posts in more detail.

OK, so you do think Yuri is scum. Is there a reason you haven't voted for her? In fact, you're currently not voting anyone I believe.

[Mathilda]

I've now gone through all of dierfire's posts and also dwlee / MasonP. dwlee/MasonP have been even more content-light than Yuriko so he's propelled his way to my number one scum slot. I count a total of 10 posts in total from this slot which basically revolve around the issue of Omgussing and counter-omgussing. The posts are mainly defensive in tone rather than involve any active scum hunting.

#145 is particularly worrying when dwlee says he actually forgot that he was playing this game.

I have also been through dierfire's posts. I am leaning neutral on him for now whereas I used to lean town on him before. Most of his questions are generic. By that I mean they are like a guide trying to get people to talk but he's not really putting any conjectures forward himself. He does not justify his accusations yet demands that everyone else justifies themselves. In fact in #35 he says that he likes it when town gives a reason even for a silly RV because this helps town #49. He flips between preferring to lynch either my slot or necargoface and has done so from the very beginning even before I joined the game. This could be a sign of someone suffering from confirmation bias. Or it could be scum hiding behind being a facilitator playing like an Inexperienced Challenge by getting other people to make themselves targets while flooding the thread with posts that look helpful.

I am still suspicious of necargoface because he's also been very defensive and has since gone quite quiet. It's like he got a shock from sticking his neck up above the parapet and then decided it was safer to not draw attention to himself and so now only comes on when his name is specifically mentioned.

Read list:

#1 scum dwlee
#2 scum necargoface

Neutral
Yuriko, dierfire

Town
Everyone else

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gratuitous's standpoint on me is void. 54 was posted in 7am in the morning in which I wasn't actually awake. I went back to sleep, waking up at 11am realizing I didn't vote him. Also even if I were awake at the time 54 was made I probably would have let him explain himself first since it was his first post.

Do you have a read on Grat Yuri?

Once people stop mking a bbig deal about it, I will move on to other things.

Is there a reason you can't do both?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Lee

This should happen.

Mathilda, you need to place a vote.

Yuri, I still need you to answer my question about where you got the opinion that I was a good player. Dier, I don't believe you got around to looking at Yuri's scummy posting; can you do so now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so I'm not willing to lynch Dier, Draynth or Grat Today. Probably not LC either.

Will lynch Lee, Yuri, Necargo or Mathilda. In that order.

[Draynth]

Necargoface pretty much responded to nothing but the issue on his "RV" (or not) on honest. This in itself is scummy. He only mentioned one (seemingly weak) town read.

Once people stop mking a bbig deal about it, I will move on to other things.

This seems pretty scummy for two reasons.
1) There is no reason you cant do both.
2) He's putting defending himself before scumhunting. Town members shouldn't care what people think of them unless it'll lead to them being lynched or if it affects their credibility when forming a wagon. Scum however do care.

[Draynth]

I'm going to read through The Dwlee slot posts and see what I think

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Draynth, can you give us a reads list please?

Also, defensiveness is not scummy. Some people are naturally defensive and that is their first thought when they come under attack.

[Mathilda]

Can we have a Vote count please? I don't want to vote for someone who is already at L-1 and initiate a ban hammer. Is it safe for me to vote dwlee? If so then I will vote for him.

[Draynth]

@BBT. Hmm that's a fair point actually. I still have an issue with it though because he is sacrificing scumhunting in order to do it. The fact that he's just doing the first is an issue to me.

[Mathilda]

Just to clarify, I don't want to cause the ban hammer to fall until a consensus has been reached and the accused has a chance to defend himself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, you can vote Lee. I believe I am the only person voting him.

Draynth, any chance of a reads list?

[Mathilda]

VOTE: Dwlee99

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.7

"Jon Stewart was right!"

Dwlee99

(3): YurikoJasmine, BlueBloodedToffee, Mathilda

YurikoJasmine

(2): Dwlee99, Gratuitous

Mathilda

(1): Dierfire

Gratuitous

(1): Lowercase

necargoface

(1): Draynth

Not Voting

(1): necargoface

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.


Deadline: August 10, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-08-09 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

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