Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - What you showed is not opportunistic at all; i've been on Boon since he started being scummy. I'm simply trying to tell you guys that we are so close to the deadline that we can't risk a no-lynch.

I'm beginning to see that my town-read of Boonskiies is effecting my read on your actions.

[absta101]

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Or Tony.

Tony can easily get to 5 votes and then we have another viable wagon.

[Zoronos]

Bulb - What is your position on the current 2-3 wagons? Any chance I can convince you to give a read one way or the other on Tony?

[Zoronos]

[quote="In

839 - I want to talk about this post a tad.
First, it uses 'peculiar' as a synonym for scummy. He's trying to call BBT's 580 scummy (he attacks it, says he doesn't see how BBT could think what he wrote in it, etc) without actually outright calling BBT scum for making it.

I find this analysis/summary peculiar. First off, you're pretty much making up that peculiar is used as a synonym for scummy by me. Whether I'm trying to characterize BBT as scummy is fair for you to question. I don't think I was being coy about me questioning the validity in *his* questions, and in turn questioning his motives. I even ended the comment by saying that leaning scum on him, in part because of this post. Was i supposed to say post ergo scum?

Yes, basically. You were acting like the post was scummy, and attacking the credibility of the post, without coming out and saying 'It is scummy and here is why'. It's a soft-push.

His response to 596 seems incredibly fence-sitting. Rather than outright agree or disagree (or to discuss the merits) he throws water on it in part of his response (see the note about grammar and spelling) and half agrees (see the part about saying its worth noting and that he's seen less speculative scumslip reads).

I don't know what to say to this. I mean, you're more or less paraphrasing my post. Otherwise, I plead guilty, I was fence-sitting. Again, I'm left wondering if I was supposed to come out of it either proclaiming it to be hogwash, or sure proof of scum. I only intended to comment on posts I found interesting. I also intended to conclude the comments with more substance, but alas...

Okay, so why did you include it? If you don't have any conclusions to draw from it, why bother posting about it? Either it's worth discussion (and you should have an opinion on it, rather than fence sitting), or it's not worth discussion and thus is pointless to post.
Noise for the sake of noise.

I really dislike him asking Bulb to lurk.

I'm just gonna stop you there. I didn't ask Bulb to lurk, and if you think that we have either communication issues, or you are being purposefully obtuse to misrepresent me.

You said "I don't like when people only ask for reads or opinions, like that's contributing to the discussion. I'd rather have you lurk, to be honest." Those were your words. You explicitly said you'd rather Bulb lurk than what he's doing now. Keyser used Bulb's behavior to generate a read on Bulb. I don't see the same from you. You generated a read on Keyser, but instead of generating a read on Bulb as well (which Keyser did) you just made commentary on your like / dislike of Bulb's playstyle.

[Kmd4390]

Hate to do it so close to deadline but I'm prod dodging. I'm aware of the vote count and still want a Boon lynch as opposed to forcing a third claim today. Boon is scummier than any of the others up for a lynch anyway. I'll check back in in 17 hours when I'm home from work but it's my third double in a row so a full read probably won't happen until I wake up and even that depends on what I have going on tomorrow.

[Boonskiies]

^

[redFF]

i dont like this attempt to start a bandwagon on tony so soon before deadline, i highly doubt it will get enough votes


i'm willing to vote banakai if this absta lynch really isn't happening
his boonskies case looked force
and his buddying up to me followed by his change to scumread and promise of a case that never came is really strange

i'd still like an absta lynch but i would compromise on banakai, i have a town read on boon

[redFF]

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

ok so r u gonna do this or?

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

ok so this has been a very active day 1, and we have 5 days left til deadline, that's plenty of time, absta has done a lot of posting recently about how we are getting very close to the deadline and we can't afford a nolynch!!!! which is a way to look town without actually providing content/scumhunting
by 'people on the small wagons' he means 'people voting me', which is just a dishonest way of trying to prevent his own lynch by making the day seem more rushed and a lynch more urgent than it actually is

tony lynch is not happening today, i urge tony voters to get on absta wagon if they can't deal with the banakai or boonski ones

[absta101]

Buddying? Promised case? What are you talking about?

Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, why would it be scummy for town-me to want to survive? I know I am town, therefore my lynch is the WORST lynch in the game from my perspective. Your reason is so bad.

[absta101]

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

[redFF]

Buddying? Promised case? What are you talking about?

relevant banakai posts

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

I summon Banakai!

Banakai - How do you feel are currently scum, and why?

Well I used to believe Woody, but I'm starting to think hes just really bad at playing town. A scum would usually change his playstyle after being called out on it repeatedly but woody keeps being an idiot. I'm not totally against his wagon. Best case scenario he is a werewolf (not out of the picture), worst case he is a towny who wasn't helping anyway.

I'm a little lost on this one actually. The werewolf is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me or has yet to give me a clue. Which brings me to this question:

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

1) What is your current read on redFF?

2) What was it about his early posts that made you announce "red ff is town" in the thread? Please could you quote the posts that made you have such an early strong town read on him.

I'd say #176 and #187 were really good. I'd still like to see the answer for #176 (unless I missed it when I was playing sordingo). #187 was just a good job noticing a person contradicting themselves and a good way to ask it.

However his recent posts have got me leaning scum now, it seems like he got lazy as scum and stopped looking town.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Boon for obvious reasons and I'll explain redff a little more when I get to a computer

did he never get to a computer? who knows.

[absta101]

Oh, I thought you were talking about me.

[absta101]

Seriously Redff, just look at Boon's ISO again without using the too scum to be scum logic and tell me he is still a town read. He is the best lynch today.

[redFF]

only scummy-seeming thing i can see is the quick change of read and vote on banakai

tbh i thought his entry to the game and self-vote felt town motivated, and his active play and scumhunting since then have felt genuine

[Boonskiies]

Seriously Redff, just look at Boon's ISO again without using the too scum to be scum logic and tell me he is still a town read. He is the best lynch today.

To be fair, nothing shows me as scum really either. I haven't done basically anything really alignment indicative, and there's no real strong reasons to town read or scum read me.

[absta101]

Seriously Redff, just look at Boon's ISO again without using the too scum to be scum logic and tell me he is still a town read. He is the best lynch today.

To be fair, nothing shows me as scum really either. I haven't done basically anything really alignment indicative, and there's no real strong reasons to town read or scum read me.

You had me and Keyser as scum reads but as soon as BBT tells you to go vote RC you say "yeah sure, I have nothing anyway". That means your reads were not genuine and that is scummy.

[absta101]

I'm referring to post 365

[RedCoyote]

Or Tony.

Tony can easily get to 5 votes and then we have another viable wagon.

Well, you're talking about cannibalizing another wagon to make this one, and I don't think that's necessary. Especially coming from you, someone that presumably had no issue with either Banakai or Boonskiies being lynched today.

Bottom line, HC has done a superior job selling me on Banakai than you have on TM. I don't see that changing in 36 hours.

[RedCoyote]

Buddying? Promised case? What are you talking about?

relevant banakai posts

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

I summon Banakai!

Banakai - How do you feel are currently scum, and why?

Well I used to believe Woody, but I'm starting to think hes just really bad at playing town. A scum would usually change his playstyle after being called out on it repeatedly but woody keeps being an idiot. I'm not totally against his wagon. Best case scenario he is a werewolf (not out of the picture), worst case he is a towny who wasn't helping anyway.

I'm a little lost on this one actually. The werewolf is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me or has yet to give me a clue. Which brings me to this question:

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

1) What is your current read on redFF?

2) What was it about his early posts that made you announce "red ff is town" in the thread? Please could you quote the posts that made you have such an early strong town read on him.

I'd say #176 and #187 were really good. I'd still like to see the answer for #176 (unless I missed it when I was playing sordingo). #187 was just a good job noticing a person contradicting themselves and a good way to ask it.

However his recent posts have got me leaning scum now, it seems like he got lazy as scum and stopped looking town.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Boon for obvious reasons and I'll explain redff a little more when I get to a computer

did he never get to a computer? who knows.

Thanks for this.

[Banakai]

I guess I just forgot to make that case cause I was being asked a lot about boonskies and nothing about redff. While my scum read isn't completely gone, There are much better candidates for votes now and I don't think we need yet another wagon.

Also I agree that bringing up tony wagon at the end of deadline is kind of scummy, but then again I think tony could be scum.

Also you say my change of read is forced, yet boon who changed his read something like 6 times as opposed to my 1 change. Which is more scummy?

Also my case is "forced" because it basically was. I gave my reasons for not wanting to make another case (everything had been said) and my case reflected that, containing only direct quotes and no opinions, that anyone could see because it had been posted and quoted all over the thread.

[Boonskiies]

Also you say my change of read is forced, yet boon who changed his read something like 6 times as opposed to my 1 change. Which is more

scummy?

Key word here. "Scummy". I'm an inherently scummy seeming player, but that does not make me scum. The fact that he chose to word it like this makes me feel he knows I'm town.

I'll stick with banakai. Scum usually has more reason to fabricated reads than town. I haven't explained CRAP. LOLOL.

[Doctor Who]

Quick post from work - looks like it is coming down to Bana and Boon.

Before the day is up, it would be great if everyone posted a summary of their reads and reasons on everyone, or at a minimum their top three scum reads plus Bana and Boon if they aren't your read. Odds are a townie is going to die tonight - having the benefit of clear, consise pro-town reads that allows the town to track over time is extremely helpful. Once a scum is nabbed, it helps to hunt the other scum.

I know it isn't usually done this way on MS, but it really helps.

I'll have mine up within 7 hours.

[TonyMontana]

In the meantime, Tony, I'm going to field the same question to you that I asked Kmd in 845:

@Haschel
The downsides of reading in ISO rather than the back and forth.
Ego protection demands that I answer 'No, that's not overtly scummy why should I change my stance in light of new information'.
My first pass thought is that it looks like just a communications breakdown. Unless his brilliant scum strategy is to never give any specifics on his reads, I don't see overt scum there.

I can understand from your chair why you feel it's scummy. Your questions look like reasonable attempts to communicate and Banakai is just failing to respond in expected ways. I'm just not sure irrationality and communications breakdown equates to scum here.
He posted a big long thing in about 690 that appeared to be a response to your questions. It's his next post after your back and forth.
Do you feel that answer was lacking? (tbh I skimmed it a bit trying to catch back up to the day)

Hey Kmd, do you agree with this post? Why or why not?

I don't agree that it was a "communications breakdown". Banakai seemed to deliberately dodge your fairly simple questions. Now, in risk of upsetting Zoronos, as I might be sitting squarely on the fence again, I would agree with him that it doesn't 'equate' scum, but not being able to answer simple questioning about your own statements should surely be considered worthy of suspicion. He did indeed follow it up with an extensive summary of Boon's circus act, but that doesn't really explain the preceding interaction.

I'm also going to step in now and ask that people don't do this anymore because I'm not combing through special boxes/spoiler tags just to find your votes.

Right, sorry about that, i see how it would be an issue

After this post, everything he posts is reactionary. He is answering people's questions,

not

providing his own analysis.

Well I thought I had a good point about your nonsense wagon pushing, but i could see how you might disagree..

Yes, basically. You were acting like the post was scummy, and attacking the credibility of the post, without coming out and saying 'It is scummy and here is why'. It's a soft-push.

Again, i dont think i could have been more clear that I actually did call it scummy.

Regarding the noise for the sake of noise, my intentions were to do running commentary on my readup. I failed to conclude, put posted what I had written to at least provide something for my attempt. You are basically doing what you are accusing me of doing, saying I shouldnt post what you find to be worthless. And "I'd rather have you lurk" is a turn of a phrase not meant to be taken literally. It certainly shouldn't be interpreted as me actually asking bulb to lurk, which you portrayed it as. Surely you can admit

that

is disingenious?

[Doctor Who]

It is day 1. I calls them as I sees them. I posted my reasons when I voted you.

@Doctor

Finally, it seemed like he started off acting like town in his first sentence, but in his second sentence I believe he identifies himself as scum. Why complain about making the game harder for everyone else (as in not town) if he is town? I don't believe I got a response to my question either.

Really, Is this what you are going for?
"It makes the game harder for everyone else" literally means it makes the game harder for everyone to follow (other than the person spamming the thread). How would you even think this is a scum-slip? You are obviously making up these shit reasons just so you can park your vote on me.

Absta put a pretty scummy vote on me earlier today.

Why was it scummy? You can't just quote my vote and call it scummy...
Look how much sense this makes:

I'm willing to go with VOTE: absta101

Doctor put a pretty scummy vote on me earlier today.

Here is why you voted me as Woody.

I'd say the most scummy thing about Woody is that all he has been doing is defending himself rather than trying to find scum.

It's early

Not a great excuse; there's enough content and a lot of us have already started scum-hunting.

Alright good stuff.
VOTE: Woody

Tell me, how is that scumhunting? Voting <> scum hunting. You threw your vote on the wagon all willy nilly. Let us also not forget the game thread was only open for a few hours at the time.

Up to this point, you wanted the credit for scumhunting when you did no such thing.