Inorganic Chemistry [GAME OVER, SCUM WIN]

[mastin2]

My pool of scum is 2 from {vezok, Nacho, mastin, LC, Jaqen}, so I'll be going from there today.

I'm

kinda

thinking Nacho-Jaqen, right now. Like, that's the team that I've got the best gut feelings for. PV on the outside. Vezok looks scummy, yeah, but I'm not feeling him as scum anymore--in fact, the idea is making me deeply, deeply uncomfortable the more I'm thinking about it. PV could be town, could be scum. Jaqen I honestly don't really have strong feelings one way or another on, but when it comes to it, thinking about it, PV's slot doesn't feel as bad as Jaqen's does, and I know Jaqen as scum is very good at faking sincerity when scum. (Basically, Jaqen's posting has, unanimously, been called, "Looks sincere, but hilariously wrong." Yet I know that as scum, he can be sincere, and intentionally push the wrongness because it's advantageous.) And the main thing throwing that into doubt is his dual scum hammers, yet in both cases, they were clearly going down; Aristophanes was the lead wagon near deadline, and everyone (save TSO) scumread ika, and I know that Jaqen can bus as scum when it's strategic to him to do so for towncred.

Then there's Nacho, who just kinda...

feels

like scum. The more I think about it, the more I think of scumteam combos, the more the ones that are without Nacho feel like, "Nah, that's not right", and the more I think of those with him in them, the thought of, "...Actually? That feels pretty good" comes in.

But not voting Nacho for the same reason I took back my vezok vote: I want to spend time this day phase actually reading, since I think I can actually solve the game today. Sure, yeah, it's basically solved already, but that's through POE and time. I think I can solve it

today

(rather than an undefined "eventually"), and that's particularly important given there's always the risk I don't make it through the night.

[Cerberus v666]

So you're feeling like scumnacho is going against his instinct to kill you, in order to make you doubt your read on him as scum?

[mastin2]

Quite plausibly, yes.

It's just the thing that feels right.

[Antihero]

Lithium Carbonate

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Vote Count 4.6

Lying Cat - 1 (Jaqen Hghar)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Lying Cat)
vezokpiraka - 3 (Wickedestjr, Cerberus v666, Nachomamma8)

Not Voting: mastin2, PeregrineV, St Constantine the Hermit, T S O, vezokpiraka

6 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2015-08-17 22:29:00)

[Wickedestjr]

So you're feeling like scumnacho is going against his instinct to kill you, in order to make you doubt your read on him as scum?

Quite plausibly, yes.

It's just the thing that feels right.

Seems like you just want to scum read Nacho regardless of how the night ended...

[Cerberus v666]

So you're feeling like scumnacho is going against his instinct to kill you, in order to make you doubt your read on him as scum?

Quite plausibly, yes.

It's just the thing that feels right.

Seems like you just want to scum read Nacho regardless of how the night ended...

Agreed, but it feels like paranoia of a player who knows someone can fool them.

[PeregrineV]

Nacho shot down my original ika case, so I'm happy to lynch him first

Link to Original ika case (yours), and Nacho's "shooting down" of it, please.

[Cerberus v666]

Ika has posted more in this game than every other one of his scumgames. He seems like a pretty stupid vote.

This is fucking awful.

Mastin, I wanna kick nacho out of the lodge. Please advise.

LC has been a POE-scumread for a while now.

@nacho, mastin
This doesn't jive with 'maybe a lurker, but lets give them some more time.

Please explain.

I think you are LYING.

This is fucking awful.

Why is that?

Because ika is aware of the post count thing. And his spammy useless iso reads like he's forcing himself to post with frequency. When was the last post from him that had game relevant content?

I'm willing to back off for evidence or at the insistence of multiple townreads, but saying "postcount >9 .: scum" without reading them is pretty bad.

Wow, let's avoid the guy who has a 100% meta for lurking as scum (ika), the guy who had two towns push on him early but cannot get a wagon to take off and is lurking, or why don't we vote an obvious scum counter to those two (Kari).

Ika has posted more in this game than every other one of his scumgames. He seems like a pretty stupid vote.

Because ika is aware of the post count thing. And his spammy useless iso reads like he's forcing himself to post with frequency. When was the last post from him that had game relevant content?

He's been aware of the meta for a while, hasn't yet changed it. My first thought is going to be that he's doing what he always done until there's contradicting evidence, which there hasn't been.

Spammy useless ISO reads is also pretty common Ika fare, not sure what your point is there.

Don't care when his last game relevant post was.

I'm willing to back off for evidence or at the insistence of multiple townreads, but saying "postcount >9 .: scum" without reading them is pretty bad.

I read them.
Good enough.

I don't see why following a very reliable indicator of a player's alignment is bad, tbh.

In that game, he was trying to work out reads and solve the game. All he's got in this game are prod dodges and petty arguments, which looks a lot like dodging and lack of conviction.

He tried to work out the game early via his interactions with Tere.

He tried to work out the game with Ank, Bins, gave multiple reads list, pushed reads, tried to figure things out. What you're missing is how lackluster Ika's scum game actually is: it is 14 posts in a full game, with 3 hammers, 7 prod dodges, and 4 posts that say "I'm not gonna read what I missed, just gonna go from here" or "what did I miss?"

In "Kill all Townies" he lurked most of the game as town in that one too.
Him lurking is null at worst.
Ironically, Ika has more posts than Lying Cat.

Him lurking isn't a perfect scum tell, no.
Him posting is a pretty fantastic town tell though!

All the posts I found related to LC saying ika was scum, and the posts from Nacho telling him he's wrong.

Regardless though, reading the rest of Nacho's ISO though, makes me put him as tentatively town. Just the way his initial votes on aristophanes went and his appeal to others to join him on the wagon. I'm admittedly not familiar with Nacho's play, but an appeal to a player to switch from a wagon on ANYONE to a PR on your team seems...unlikely?

[Jaqen Hghar]

No Mastin, a man is town this time. If you are knowing that for certain, what is that doing with you POE?

[Jaqen Hghar]

A man is fighting with himself to keep Cerberus as town. Reading that one again, a large chunk of his ISO is naught but strawmanning Jaqen. A man is finding it much easier for scum to float by on pointing out flaws with a stance than it is for town to be dead solid perfect. Roleblock img is also negative utility as town are having a much greater possibility of hitting town and as such scum are having no fear doling it out randomly because one receiving the block knows not who the previous blocker is blocking.

But that one is a universal town read, so why is a man the only one not buying that schtick?

[Lying Cat]

Roleblock img is also negative utility as town are having a much greater possibility of hitting town and as such scum are having no fear doling it out randomly because one receiving the block knows not who the previous blocker is blocking.

This is incorrect.

[Cerberus v666]

A man is fighting with himself to keep Cerberus as town. Reading that one again, a large chunk of his ISO is naught but strawmanning Jaqen. A man is finding it much easier for scum to float by on pointing out flaws with a stance than it is for town to be dead solid perfect.

Roleblock img is also negative utility as town are having a much greater possibility of hitting town and as such scum are having no fear doling it out randomly because one receiving the block knows not who the previous blocker is blocking.

But that one is a universal town read, so why is a man the only one not buying that schtick?

Which is the reason why I gave it to the same person two nights in a row, only changing targets because the player who I trusted to use it effectively was replaced by one who I didn't trust to use it effectively, and then I thus gave it to SB...and then, when the hammer happened(because of you) before Titus gave us her VCA, and I expected scum to shoot SB or the SC slot because they PoE meant they had to decrease the conftown count, I opted to believe they'd shoot SB more often than the sc slot(which I still don't trust to use the power effectively), so I gave it to wicked(which was a choice I was and still am REALLY uncertain about, but unless the scum team is TSO+Wicked, there is no almost no chance wicked is scum). I almost gave it to you, Jaqen, but I figured you'd just use it to RB me and move our chances of catching scum with it from small to nonexistent.

Bleh. I'm not supposed to be talking to you right? That's what I said.

And yes Jaqen, my iso is largely arguing with you about the things you've been wrong about.

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, I'm glad you're back to scumreading me jaqen, this game wouldn't be the same if you weren't.

[T S O]

Mastin's #3925 is uncannily close to my thoughts on Jaqen. That was literally what I came into the thread to say (he can bus, he can be genuine while being wrong).

That's definitely getting her a day or two of reprieve.

[T S O]

I agree that reading will be pretty useful in this particular game, and I'll try to do some of my own if I can get myself off Borderlands for a while.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Mastin's #3925 is uncannily close to my thoughts on Jaqen. That was literally what I came into the thread to say (he can bus, he can be genuine while being wrong).

That's definitely getting her a day or two of reprieve.

Yes on all counts. Still not scum

[Jaqen Hghar]

No actually, a man isn't blocking you last night Cerberus as he is having a different target in mind in the highly unlikely event he was invented to.

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. Yeah, maybe I was a little short sighted there, if town you would have blocked LC I suppose.

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm. Yeah, maybe I was a little short sighted there, if town you would have blocked LC I suppose.

Jaqen, please don't respond to this... We don't need to know.

[Cerberus v666]

It wasn't really a question. Your point is valid though, I was just expressing that I may have been wrong in my appraisal of jaq's likely action.

[Wickedestjr]

I understand. Just wanted to make sure Jaqen didn't reveal who he'd target.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: Please prod Nacho and prod/replace Constantine

[PeregrineV]

I understand. Just wanted to make sure Jaqen didn't reveal who he'd target.

You're the closest thing to a townread for me right now.....

Is this the second time that Cerebus has hopped to defend/answer for Lying Cat? I feel like it is. Why is he doing that for him?

If Nacho "derailed" Lying Cat's ika wagon so easily be disagreeing with it, how solid was it to begin with?

Since TSO as stated ika was town, why is that different from what Nacho did? As in, if Nacho is a suspect, why is TSO not?

[Cerberus v666]

I understand. Just wanted to make sure Jaqen didn't reveal who he'd target.

You're the closest thing to a townread for me right now.....

Is this the second time that Cerebus has hopped to defend/answer for Lying Cat? I feel like it is. Why is he doing that for him?

If Nacho "derailed" Lying Cat's ika wagon so easily be disagreeing with it, how solid was it to begin with?

Since TSO as stated ika was town, why is that different from what Nacho did? As in, if Nacho is a suspect, why is TSO not?

You should read my ISO. It's full of instances of me talking for other people. It's what I do. If you ask a question I feel I can answer and I'm not feeling especially lazy, I'll answer it.

I'll even do it right now again for Wicked:At least one reason why Nacho is a suspect and TSO isn't is because scum TSO has little to gain from revealing that he received the cop yesterday in light of flubbers flip. At worst, that play would get him lynched because he was still a suspect by PoE, and it would confirm his result on wicked. At best, it got him some town credit.

It doesn't seem likely that said town credit is worth the risk, to me at least.

It'd be cool to hear wicked's thoughts too.

[PeregrineV]

I'll even do it right now again for Wicked:At least one reason why Nacho is a suspect and TSO isn't is because scum TSO has little to gain from revealing that he received the cop yesterday in light of flubbers flip. At worst, that play would get him lynched because he was still a suspect by PoE, and it would confirm his result on wicked. At best, it got him some town credit.

TSO got the cop, and then used it on Wicked, who was his top scumread/questionable read?