Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[RedCoyote]

BBT, I think you a succumbing to, "DW is scum being he should be" syndrome. Do you know what I mean?

[Kmd4390]

Boon, if absta were to flip town, what would your read on TonyMontana be?

Also, wtf? I have tied for the 4th most posts in this game. How'd that happen?

Because you make like 100 posts in a row. I miss the days when people apologized for even double posting...

Absta, can you explain why you thought the game was ruined when Boon self voted?

Oh, it's simple...It's Banakai, Kmd, and Absta. LOLOLOLOL. GG.

Lol. That's fine. Keep saying that and I won't get NK'd. Let me ask you this though. Does my back and forth with absta when I voted him read as scum distancing?

Banakai self-hammering proves that there was one scum on the wagon already, and one potentially feeling the need to hammer, so banakai hammed before they had to make the decision. Which is why I believe it to be Kmd as the 3rd scum.

Wait, how's this lead to me again?

[Boonskiies]

Absta won't flip town. If it did happen, though, i'd still town read tony, and probably put doctor who in there instead. Mm, you fit the bill the best of being off the wagon.

[absta101]

@Boon

I don't feel he is buddying me. It would be pointless. I'm not active enough to legitimately defend him, and I'd be too easy of a mislynch for him down the line. BBT is town.

Fair point. Like you said though, you have the 4th most posts but I agree he probably wouldn't value your protection.
UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Tony

This being said, you believe ScumBBT was pushing that hard for a counterwagon for Banakai, ONTO a different scum partner in Tony? He was pretty sold on voting Tony yesterday, and the fact that you are pushing for Tony now makes me feel like Tony is also town.

There is so much wrong with this.
I can think about association

with the Banakai flip only

. Scum reading BBT and Tony doesn't mean I think they are scum together. It simply means I think one or both are scum. BBT was a scum read due to what he said earlier, and Tony purely by association to Banakai.

Also, having a town read on Tony because of this is just dumb. You are literally just getting lost in your own confirmation bias about me.

Also, this is stating the obvious, and is just trying to get town cred and buddy up to me as well.

You were my top scum read and I was the first to post it. What would you have said if someone else said it instead? Would they have been scummy for it? Obviously not, you are just calling me scummy for it because you are

assuming

I am scum before you analyse anything I say.

Think about it, I have to tell people if my read on you does a full 180, I can't just stay quiet about it because "it's obvious".

[TonyMontana]

No comment (3)

Boonskiies
Tony
Absta

I've had one comment today, which was sort of on your plan, but now that I've sobered up I'll rebutt some of your reasoning.

Advantages
1) the role is vanilla now but we the town can still benefit
2) there is a WW counterclaim, then we guarantee that we lynch a WW today or tomorrow.
3) if there is no counterclaim, then there is confirmed town.
4) confirmed town reduces the lynch pool, making it more likely to lunch a WW.
5) the proper WW action tonight is to off the Angel, allowing the seer another night to investigate.
6) we'll know a lot more about the wagons from day 1.
7) prevents a WW from fake claiming angel later in the game.
8) I bet the WW didn't see this plan coming.

1) null
2) Don't see how WW could possibly counter this early with 1 WW gone.
3) True statement.
4) Angel can always claim if targeted, so the lynch pool should exclude them either way.
5) This reason is actually not bad, it would make me support the claim if both angel and seer is alive on Day 3.
6) Not sure how much we'd really learn. As with the above, whatever learnt, we'd learn more from a Day 3 claim.
7) We can afford the potential of a CC standoff tomorrow, no?
8) I bet the WW are as unfazed about this plan as I am.

Basically, if Angel isn't getting lynched, they are not in the lynch pool for all intents and purposes, but you have convinced me that Angel should claim tomorrow.

[absta101]

@RC

And how come Banakai's flip doesn't play into your vote today at all?

If it wasn't for Banakai's scum-flip I would be voting Boon. Also, my scum read on Tony is due to association between him and Banakai.
--

@Kmd

Absta, can you explain why you thought the game was ruined when Boon self voted?

It's not easy to remember but I believed that he genuinely wanted to replace out (this doesn't mean I believed his claim). With the previous replacements and then Boon coming out with this (regardless of whether he is scum or town), it ruined my excitement for the game. The point that Boon doesn't understand is, even if he is scum, I wouldn't want him to self vote and replace out.

[absta101]

Replace me saying "replace out" with "give up". This is what I mean by not easy to remember...

[TonyMontana]

This being said, you believe ScumBBT was pushing that hard for a counterwagon for Banakai, ONTO a different scum partner in Tony? He was pretty sold on voting Tony yesterday, and the fact that you are pushing for Tony now makes me feel like Tony is also town.

Honestly, a scum BBT would be more likely to push for another scum wagon, given that the attempt was rather futile in itself. The question is not whether or not he was trying to save banakai, but rather if he wanted to distance himself from the wagon alltogether.

I thought BBT was resigning to a banakai wagon that he didn't see stopping, but quickly realized he didn't like the look of that.
Not being content with looking like a latecomer to a scum lynch, he changed over to relentlessly trying to get another wagon going.

This is not exactly inception depth as far as WIFOM goes, he got onto the banakai lynch for a new york minute, then went all out trying to look like he had better fish to fry.

VOTE: bbt

[TonyMontana]

This is regarding the sentence HC brought up about Banakai. It feels like Tony is trying to defend Banakai. As far as I can see, Tony didn't have to defend Banakai for this and the grammar/spelling mistake defense seems forced.

I think Zoro said it best, I was seemingly "throwing water" on the scumslip.
You're right, I didn't have to defend Banakai, and I obviously didn't believe that was what I was doing. I didn't have to bring it up at all, to be fair to me, it wasn't like it was a hot issue at the time. I just did because I thought it was an interesting potential scumslip, and wanted to both voice an agreement to the idea as well as another perspective.

[RedCoyote]

What about Banakai?

Null. Passively suspicious, not my preferred lynch but happy to see more questioning. Just don't have the time to do that questioning myself right now.

I have basically no opinion about Banakai. He doesn't have a ton of content, is a null and I haven't had time to work on sorting him.

I read back over Banakai's ISO this morning, and I'm not seeing overtly scummy behavior. I am not enthused to vote there without a good reason for what I'm missing.

These three posts are the crux of my argument against townZoro. That goes from passively dismissing the wagon on Banakai (not my prefered lynch, but maybe!) when it's still small and scrawny to passively discarding it (not seeing overtly scummy behavior). I dispute Zoro saying he had a strong, vocal townread on Banakai. I think it was much more hushed. Instead he focuses his energies on stroking BBT's ego with a late TonyMontana push that was ill-concieved and last minute. BBT acknowledged that (despite, regrettably, going forward with it anyway), but Zoro egged him on, I think. Evidence of this: 670, 850 and 904.

Right now, I'm thinking BBT is legitimately, but overly paranoid, town. Zoro is a Banakai ally that tried to steer the conversation away from Banakai. He did so feeding on BBT's paranoia and TM's loner mentality.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: That goes from passively dismissing the wagon on Banakai (not my prefered lynch, but maybe!) when it's still small and scrawny to passively discarding it (not seeing overtly scummy behavior)

when it grows larger and more mighty

.

[Keyser Söze]

Going through Banakai's 44 posts:

Banakai didn't engage with many players directly (a scum-trait). Here is an example of Banakai referring to players as "they" or "people" instead of name-dropping them and inviting focus:

Kind of hard to tell about other

players

since

they

are mostly spectating and gathering facts, with the exception of

people

who have already taken the side of Woody acting scum-like which I agree with.

Thus, there are few connections to be drawn with other players (until later, where he is approaching L-1*).

Early pressure on WoodyWoodpecker (Doctor Who) (post 193).

Also red ff is town

This empty town-read was likely an attempt by Banakai to buddy up with redFF (redFF earns 10 town points).

Two grammatical errors or two scum-slips?

BBT: Do you think there would be any motivation in this game for

a scum

to tunnel on Woody like you are now?

The werewolf is

probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me or has yet to give me a clue.

Interestingly, who was "the werewolf" who had not posted enough? I did not take a snap-shot of the VC at post 305.

The contradiction of the chronological timing of his town and scum read of redFF (post 305). (Kmd4390 and I had previously discussed this: post 411).

Banakai votes Boonskiies, thus, starting a tunnel which he continues through-out the rest of his ISO (post 472)

Confuses Boonskiies slot with WoodyWoodpecker's (Doctor Who) slot (post 473).

Despite his strong scum-read of Boonskiies, Banakai posts this:

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

At this point, there were 3 votes now on absta01 (after BlueBloodedToffee's unvote and vote on Tony Montana) and there were 3 votes on Boonskiies.

Banakai says his two main scum-reads are Boonskiies and redFF (post 628).

Banakai accuses Boonskiies of trying to buddy up with BlueBloodedToffee (post 671) (BlueBloodedToffee earns half a town point).

Banakai disagreed with me when I called his tunnel on Boonskiies "passionate/determined" (post 698, post 734).


*Banakai's thoughts on the respective wagons forming:

I'm not seeing an absta as scum, but tony montana I'd be okay with but I still prefer boon

Here was the VC at that point:
Banakai (5): Haschel Cedricson, Red Coyote, Bulbazoor, Boonskiies, BlueBloodedToffee
Boonskiies (4): absta101, Banakai, Tony Montana, Kmd4390
absta101 (4): Zoronos, redff, Keyser Söze, Doctor Who

Banakai accuses Tony Montana of being lurking scum (post 860).

Banakai adds one more final thought on Tony Montana:

Also I agree that bringing up tony wagon at the end of deadline is kind of scummy, but then again I think tony could be scum.

Was his late focus on Tony Montana last minute WIFOM?
It must be noted that Banakai was against the absta101 lynch.
Banakai's pressure/tunnelling on Doctor Who/Boonskiies' slots earns them town points.

[redFF]

absta is clearly the lynch here tbh

[RedCoyote]

Confuses Boonskiies slot with WoodyWoodpecker's (Doctor Who) slot (post 473).

Shouldn't this give townpoints to both DW and Boonskiies? It seems like the scumteam would be more cognizant if one of their own replaced out.

Anyway, I like KS' post here. I'm becoming more and more convinced our scumteam is Banakai/Zoro/absta or redFF or Bulba

[RedCoyote]

redFF, if you give me Zoro today, I'll go absta tomorrow.

[Doctor Who]

Three posts in sequence from Tony's ISO

Having been away for a few years, I might ask about certain lingo.

For starters, i understand what a Pedit is, but why is it called that?

Hey, sorry for the slow start, busy weekend, reading up now.

In defense of me posting elsewhere, thats only low-effort phone-posting in a game near end-game which didnt require much of me.

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly, when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

Up to page 15 note:
Boonski has been making a lot of posts, yet have been saying little of note.

Tony, I don't believe that you ever commented on this. How were you able to catch up so quickly?

[Keyser Söze]

Banakai

_____________4______

Haschel Cedricson

(502), RedCoyote (649), Bulbazoor (702), Boonskiies (710)
Boonskiies__________4______

absta101 (422),

Banakai

(472), TonyMontana (533), Kmd4390 (592)

the boonskies wagon is terrible and has scummy looking players on it

I don't think all 3 werewolves would have been on that Boonskiies wagon (I wouldn't put it past newb-scum however). At the end of D1 I was thinking absta101-Banakai-TonyMontana were scum (but possibly one or both of absta101-TonyMontana are town). I've town-read Kmd4390 from the start, but will need to look at all my reads.

[Doctor Who]

Going through Banakai's 44 posts:

....

Keyser, do you think that Banakai was pissed at his scumbuddies when he did this? That's the impression I got.

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

[Keyser Söze]

Shouldn't this give townpoints to both DW and Boonskiies?

It seems like the scumteam would be more cognizant if one of their own replaced out.

Anyway, I like KS' post here. I'm becoming more and more convinced our scumteam is Banakai/Zoro/absta or redFF or Bulba

Yes, definite town-points. Doctor Who and Boonskiies are not on my D2 lynch pool list.


I am still catching up (looking at the counter-wagons, and the Banakai wagon itself).

[Keyser Söze]

Fuck this shit VOTE: Banakai

I felt it was damage limitation. I knew he was confirmed scum when he was avoiding the thread at L-1, followed by his self-vote (classic defeated scum behaviour)

We know scum do not have day chat, so I can see your point of view (Banakai could have been genuinely frustrated - at himself and his teammates).

[Doctor Who]

felt it was damage limitation. I knew he was confirmed scum when he was avoiding the thread at L-1, followed by his self-vote (classic defeated scum behaviour)

We know scum do not have day chat, so I can see your point of view (Banakai could have been genuinely frustrated - at himself and his teammates).

How did you know he was avoiding the thread?

I also meant to ask, what made you think to ask the mod if scum had daychat?

[RedCoyote]

Additionally, I think that last minute push at TM just reinforces my theory that TM is town. The only reason Banakai didn't jump over to it is because he was already on the second biggest wagon (Boon, also likely town).

[Keyser Söze]

How did you know he was avoiding the thread?

I also meant to ask, what made you think to ask the mod if scum had daychat?

He was posting elsewhere on mafiascum (if he was a townie at L-1, he would have been on this thread straight-away to defend himself) Banakai was defeated scum.

"Day chat" - good question, I had a theory! I will check my ISO, because I have honestly forgot

[Keyser Söze]

I remember now - it was all to do with TonyMontana's late entrance into the thread and his ability to catch-up so quick and vote Boonskiies within minutes (post 533). My theory: scum have a tendency not to read the thread when they have day-chat - I thought TonyMontana was lurking, then had a skim of his scum day chat, and jumped on the scum-led wagon on Boonskiies.

[RedCoyote]

Why are y'all assuming that TM wasn't catching up prior to 528? I mean, I'll let him speak for himself, but, like I was telling BBT yesterday, those posts don't bother me at all. Often times I start catching up, get bored, and make a post about either my status or something else midway through.