Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[redFF]

@bbt i called banakai out on that multiple times and stated i thought it was scummy behavior, which it was

u r reaching man

u just said

Pretty sure it's going on Tony/Zoro/Absta though.

and now ur fos'ing me too

there's only 2 scum left in this game

absta is one, lets get to lynching

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, I see. You thought it was so scummy that you voted him...right?

[redFF]

and his buddying up to me followed by his change to scumread and promise of a case that never came is really strange

i'd still like an absta lynch but i would compromise on banakai, i have a town read on boon

Buddying? Promised case? What are you talking about?

relevant banakai posts

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

I summon Banakai!

Banakai - How do you feel are currently scum, and why?

Well I used to believe Woody, but I'm starting to think hes just really bad at playing town. A scum would usually change his playstyle after being called out on it repeatedly but woody keeps being an idiot. I'm not totally against his wagon. Best case scenario he is a werewolf (not out of the picture), worst case he is a towny who wasn't helping anyway.

I'm a little lost on this one actually. The werewolf is probbably not posted enough comments to get noticed by me or has yet to give me a clue. Which brings me to this question:

Also red ff is town

Because his posts are a towns posts.

Please can I have added quote-thought-process analysis on this statement. I am not satisfied with your reasons.

As for red ff, I just liked his posts, but he posted some questionable things now

#168 is a little meh but I shouldnt talk as I pretty much did the same thing
#176 was probbably his best post, both a good question and observation about scum in rvs
#181 is a little forced
#187 is a very good question
#203 kinda concerns me with its tone though

1) What is your current read on redFF?

2) What was it about his early posts that made you announce "red ff is town" in the thread? Please could you quote the posts that made you have such an early strong town read on him.

I'd say #176 and #187 were really good. I'd still like to see the answer for #176 (unless I missed it when I was playing sordingo). #187 was just a good job noticing a person contradicting themselves and a good way to ask it.

However his recent posts have got me leaning scum now, it seems like he got lazy as scum and stopped looking town.

VOTE: red ff ya I know I called him town

Boon for obvious reasons and I'll explain redff a little more when I get to a computer

did he never get to a computer? who knows.

look bbt i was trying to get an absta lynch yesterday, but i was willing to get on banakai and stated my intent to hammer before his self hammer

dont like that last post, u r misrepping and trying to bait me, do you really think i am scum because of banakai's pushing on me?

u hopping on the banakai wagon as late as possible after trying to start a last minute counterwagon on tony looks far scummier after a banakai town flip tbh, though im leaning on u being paranoid bad town atm

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, I don't think you're scum. I thought I would present the interactions between yourself and Banakai for a bit of fun and then just completely disregard them.

If you're leaning on me being 'paranoid town' (that sounds familiar) then why did you feel the need to say you think my vote on Banakai is scummy? That is something scum do to test the waters on a lynch.

[redFF]

ur vote on banakia was scummy because it was late, it was after you tried to start a counterwagon, and banakai flipped mafia

[Shinobi]

Vote Count

absta101

(2):

Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2):

RedCoyote, Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Doctor Who, Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1):

absta101

Not Voting

(3):

Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-22 14:00:00)

[Kmd4390]

Ok, Ban ISO:
Post 186: The insults to Woody's play don't feel like something a scumbuddy would say. Doctor Who is probably town. Not sure what to make of the BBT comment, but I lean slightly townish.
195: calls redff town and doesn't say anything else. I'll revisit this when I've read more.
198: ok guess I didn't have to read much more. Someone questioned him on the redff comment and he gave nothing. I'd think he'd make up a reason for town reading a buddy. Town lean.
248: presses BBT to answer his earlier question.
253: restates his BBT question. It's getting harder to see any possibility BBT is scum as Ban focuses on this more.
257: starts to reverse his redff stance. Going after what he percieves to be an easy town target? Maybe testing waters?
272: more pressure on BBT
305: I feel like he's more relaxed answering Zoro than Keyser, but maybe I'm confirmation biasing here. Still, calling redff scum now means redff is probably town.
317: votes redff
472: votes Boon and calls him an idiot. Also calls Woody an idiot. Both slots are town.
473: Thought Boon replaced Woody. Again, both slots are town.
491/499: Boon case. Boon is obvtown.
628: can't help but wonder if there was a wagon on one of his buddies here. Said he can understand some cases but they arent screaming scum. Quick check shows only Boon and Absta had multiple votes and he mentioned Boon seperately before that comment. So maybe Absta is his buddy?
832: I omitted a ton of posts about Boon because I've established he's town. But here, he has Absta as town and Boon as a preferred lynch and willing to compromise to TonyMontana. Is this town points for TonyMontana?
838: points out that TonyMontana might be scum lurking to avoid being investigated. Bad logic, but whatever. He's going after TonyMontana. Tony is actually probably town.
920: more of the same.
964: he's dead
968: Keyser is probably town

Conclusion: pretty sure it's Zoro/Absta. Doctor Who, BBT, Boon, redff, and TonyMontana are town. I notice little to nothing about Bulb and RedCoyote, but they were early on the wagon so I'm not concerned. And Keyser is probably town. I mean, if I'm wrong on Zoro and Absta I don't even know where to look. Maybe RedCoyote did a good job bussing? Maybe he and TonyMontana decided one of them is going down so they may as well distance? I don't even know. I feel like it has to be Zoro and Absta.

Now I'm off to read about what Keyser and BBT thought when they ISO'd Ban. This should be interesting.

[redFF]

good post kmd, i thought u might be scum but that was a good post

vote absta 2016

[RedCoyote]

NO, Zoro > absta.

redFF, dude, did you even read my post?

[Kmd4390]

Interesting. I seem to be on the same page as Keyser, but worlds apart from BBT.

BBT, redff dominates your thoughts on Ban's ISO. What do you think about some of the players you didn't mention after reading Ban's ISO? I'm most curious about Absta and TonyMontana with this question.

[redFF]

i could lynch zoronos that is cool with me id just rather lynch absta

[Zoronos]

zoronos what are your thoughts on absta? you said you had him as scum, then that you would reread him, and have not really mentioned him since. what the deal with that?

I was a tad busy defending against an awful case.
Also my motivation for the game is low because people aren't thinking, but that's w/e.

Anyway. I think my read on him yesterday was wrong. The sequence starting at 784 through the next 10 posts or so seems towny. Unless he was completely resigned to his partner's lynch, he is trying to get people to not expand the lynch pool, but rather to keep it focused on Boon and Banakai. I think he's wrong about BBT, but wrong happens, so *shrug*.
Not inclined to vote him.

[Boonskiies]

absta is clearly the lynch here tbh

[Boonskiies]

because absta was my biggest scumread yesterday, the banakai flip made him look even scummier,

obvtown boonskies

agrees

absta is clearly the lynch

[Boonskiies]

Ah fucccccckkkkk......methinks Redff is buddying the Boonskiies. hold up.

[Boonskiies]

Solid town read:


Tony
BBT
Bulb
Zoronos
KMD


null ish on:

redFF

Who

RC


Scum:

Keyser
Absta.


So I have some pretty drastic read changes...I no longer believe Kmd is scum, and Keyser is yet again hard pinging me. I believe one of Absta/Redff to be scum, and 100% agree that one of them should be the lynch toDay. I would much prefer Absta, to be honest, if only for the fact that I feel Absta is more slippery than Redff. There is no way Bulb is scum in my eyes. Who I have barely been reading his posts, to be honest. And RC, i've been reading, but too lazy to form an opinion on. I want Absta lynched.

[Kmd4390]

Redff was already scumreading Absta, Boon, and I don't see an issue with him caling you obvtown after Ban's flip. I don't see buddying. And why would he buddy you of all people any more than BBT would?

[Boonskiies]

Because I'm a distraction and noise and obv town. I know he was already voting Absta, but I said I believe one of Absta and Redff are scum. I'm not changing my vote toDay, so...yeah. I'll be prodging for the most part until this day is over.

[TonyMontana]

Now that I'm back to work I remember how things go. I post during my workhours, everyone else posts later. Means I'll rarely join in "real-time" conversation.
Anyways...

17 minutes between these two posts, and based on when you posted you went from page 2 (post 26) to page 15. Frankly, when someone is able to catch up so quickly it makes me think they are scum since they already know who their buddies are and they just need to bandwagon a townie and make sure one of their scumbuddies doesn't get lynched.

Tony, I don't believe that you ever commented on this. How were you able to catch up so quickly?

It's the first 15 pages of Day 1, how is this strange? Hell, go back there and look, the first 5 pages takes 2 minutes to read.
The assumption is also that I bolted just after posting my last message on page 2. In any case, I don't see the issue.

Right, so if your assumption is that I was trying to distance from the wagon then why did I return to it?

What does you returning to the wagon have to do with it? Whatever your reason was for pushing for another lynch, you would have to return to banakai. My point wasn't that you didn't wanna touch the banakai wagon, but that you spent quite some effort indirectly fighting it.

I thought BBT was resigning to a banakai wagon that he didn't see stopping, but quickly realized he didn't like the look of that.
Not being content with looking like a latecomer to a scum lynch, he changed over to relentlessly trying to get another wagon going.

Sorry, what is that comment based on? Why wouldn't I like the look of the Banakai wagon? What posts tell you I was unhappy with the wagon? That's a pretty wild statement to make.

This is the second time someone is using the 'effort' card as reasoning for why I am scum. That's BS.

Didn't like the look of

yourself being a latecomer to the wagon

.

The effort card? I'm questioning your actions not your effort.

Hey Tony, how about some reads?

Haven't really adjusted to Day 2 much yet, but here's an initial overview.
I just added redFF based on your latest post, just because I want to look into him myself.
Trying to check myself, to make sure I'm not just c-betting on you because you are antagonizing me.
Basically, both Zoro and redFF are counterweights to you, as I don't see you being scum with either of them, most certainly not Zoro.

My towns are even weaker than my scum, apart from boon which i guess we are pretty much giving a temp conf pass.

Whole list is kind of ranked.

Scum:
BlueBloodedToffee
Zoronos
redFF

Null:
absta101
Doctor Who
RedCoyote
Bulbazoor

Town:
Kmd4390
Keyser Söze
Boonskiies

@BBT

You have recently listed redFF/Zoro/Absta/Tony(me) as your top suspects. Do you have any town reads?

[Keyser Söze]

So I have some pretty drastic read changes...I no longer believe Kmd is scum, and Keyser is yet again hard pinging me. I believe one of Absta/Redff to be scum, and 100% agree that one of them should be the lynch toDay. I would much prefer Absta, to be honest, if only for the fact that I feel Absta is more slippery than Redff.

There is no way Bulb is scum in my eyes. Who I have barely been reading his posts, to be honest. And RC, i've been reading, but too lazy to form an opinion on

. I want Absta lynched.

As I town-read you (because of your associative gameplay vs Banakai), I would

like

you (town

needs

you) to improve on your reads/reasons on Bulbazoor and RedCoyote.

[Keyser Söze]

Doctor Who's post 1016 makes me want to re-look at my scum-read of absta101:

I reread absta's points on Banakai, and I found sufficient merit for the vote.

Further, I recant my Absta is likely scum position. I have him as a mild town read now.

Spoiler: absta on Ban

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

post it anyway.

Banakai's vote on Boon is quite bad. His case feels like he just made it after I asked him to post it anyway.
-

@Tony

- You give the impression that you think Boon could be anti-town which suggests he isn't a strong scum read to you. Do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

God damn I had a case written for boon but he just made a case for himself

This post makes no sense coming from town and I asked him to post his case anyway to see if he really did make one. Like I said after he posted his case, it looked quite rushed (like he just made it after I asked him to post it).

Also I'm fucking confused who I should be voting.

This quote doesn't make sense considering Banakai just said that Boon played so scummy that he (Banakai) didn't even bother finishing/posting his case on him.

Post #690 is interesting. I don't see why town-Banakai wouldn't just link back to the case he made on Boon earlier. I mean, he told HC that he had already given reasons for why he thought Boon was scum so this new version of the same case just looks like he is trying to make sure he looks town to HC. Not really a strong point, this could easily just be play style or personality but, as town, I definitely wouldn't have posted the same case twice just because someone got mad and told me to.

I'd hardly call my read passionate/determined when haschel basically

forced me to make a case

You already made a case before HC asked you to.

I'm fine with lynching either Boon or Banakai and we only have a few days left to decide. The people on the smaller wagons should migrate at this point.

5 days is cutting it close and you know it. I highly doubt you'll find 7 people who want to lynch me above these other two in that time. I find it scummy how you are trying to create a counter wagon this close to the deadline.

I'm going to join the Banakai wagon unless someone joins the Boon wagon in a few hours.

Just vote Boon or banakai. We don't have much time.

This is fucked, i'll vote banakai if he gets one more vote. I just think Boon is the best lynch out of the two. Also, like Kmd said, Banakai hasn't claimed, if he is a PR or claims PR as scum, what can we do?
Chances are, Boon is scum; most of the town reads i've seen on him are due to him being "too scummy to be scum", we all know that's a terrible reason to call someone town so just lynch it already.

VOTE: Banakai
As promised. He is L-2 now I think.

A werewolf unashamedly bussing his scum-partner at a crucial moment to regain town-cred

OR

a townie genuinely wanting his two scum-reads lynched (Boonskiies, Banakai)?
I will need to re-think this slot.
For the ones who like me, have scum-read absta101 since D1, re-read his ISO.

[TonyMontana]

So much filler in redFFs ISO

redFF is being extremely hypocritical about BBT's push for a new wagon followed by a late vote on banakai.

With 5 days left, redFF started a new wagon on absta.

vote:absta

could people get behind this if they don't like either of the 2 main wagons at this point? I know others have expressed suspicion of absta

we have 5 days left, there is no particular rush to lynch

Then a mere day after, that is scummy behaviour

i dont like this attempt to start a bandwagon on tony so soon before deadline, i highly doubt it will get enough votes

redFF, how are you not a pot calling the kettle black here? You tried to push for a new wagon and you were so late to the banakai wagon that you missed it completely.

[Keyser Söze]

Zoronos has entered my 'uncomfortable' list.

Re-reading his D1 posts there is a contradiction between the logic of his reads and his votes.

Zoronos shares his main scum-reads:

@Zoro - What do you think of

Boon

?

He's probably scum. So is

Red

. I'm looking for the third player at the moment.

Working out if that's

Absta

or

Bulb

.

Zoronos states he'd vote for redFF out of TonyMontana and redFF (post 810).
Zoronos also expresses he still wants to lynch absta101.

[At this time, redFF was starting a wagon on absta101 (a rival wagon vs the Boonskiies-Banakai wagons) - thus, did Zoronos think absta101 (his scum-read) was starting a counter-wagon on redFF (his other scum-read) while two wagons were already thriving (Boonskiies-Banakai, players he town/null read)?]

This was Zoronos' response:

Yes, I think it is immanently possible. That's why

I feel like I need to re-read Absta

.
The reads from my gut are not lining up with the reads from my reasoning, and that's usually a sign (for me) that

I need to do some re-read and rethink

.

I am unsure if we saw evidence of Zoronos' "re-read and rethink" - his vote moved to TonyMontana from absta101 (post 850), and he defended Banakai - no re-evaluation of his former scum-reads and the implications of them.

Ideally, I wish Zoronos had explained his reads on absta101/Bulbazoor, redFF and Boonskies toward the end of D1 - Zoronos voted for TonyMontana and wasn't online for the hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: Zoronos

[BlueBloodedToffee]

ur vote on banakia was scummy because it was late, it was after you tried to start a counterwagon, and banakai flipped mafia

Oh, are all late wagon votes scummy? Or is it just this particular vote you have a problem with? Also, Tony makes a good point a little further down the page - looking forward to your response to that.

BBT, redff dominates your thoughts on Ban's ISO. What do you think about some of the players you didn't mention after reading Ban's ISO? I'm most curious about Absta and TonyMontana with this question.

Yeah, I didn't read Banakai's whole ISO. I started with the first thing that jumped out at me and that was the town read on Redff - I plan on looking at his ISO in more detail. I'm doing it player by player whereas you're reading the ISO as a whole.

What does you returning to the wagon have to do with it? Whatever your reason was for pushing for another lynch, you would have to return to banakai. My point wasn't that you didn't wanna touch the banakai wagon, but that you spent quite some effort indirectly fighting it.

Because returning to the wagon after distancing from it makes very little sense. If my plan was to distance from the wagon, then the logical thought process is that I need to ensure I don't return to it - correct?

Didn't like the look of

yourself being a latecomer to the wagon

.

The effort card? I'm questioning your actions not your effort.

I see. I don't see myself as a late joiner to the wagon.

Also, it's the wording. You stated I was 'relentlessly' pushing for a wagon on you. This would imply you thought I was pushing hard to create a counter wagon to Banakai, no? What I'm saying is, what is the difference between my early game push on Woody and late game push on you? I pushed hard for both. However, in the latter case you're trying to use my effort levels to show I had scum motivations for my actions.

Null:
absta101
Doctor Who
RedCoyote
Bulbazoor

You have recently listed redFF/Zoro/Absta/Tony(me) as your top suspects. Do you have any town reads?

4 nulls...are you serious?

I don't have many town reads that I'm confident in - I'm town reading Boon and Kmd (most confident town reads). I think Keyser is town as well.

My lesser town reads are RC (I'm not sold on this at all), I'm also thinking Who could be town and I'm starting to think that Zoro is town as well.

That leaves you (Tony), Absta, Redff and Bulba as scumspects. I'm beginning to soften up on you - I like that you went to reread Redff after my post as it shows you're still open minded about other possibilities despite scum reading me.

I would vote Redff based on my previous posts. I need to look into Absta (which I'm hoping to get done today). I can't read Bulba for shit and if my town reads start thinking he is scum I'm going to sheep them.